Poult management..

[Salmo9]

Folks - hoping the PW massive can assist with your opinions here please..

I’ve volunteered to look after this years pheasant poults across a number of pens located in typical mature, softwood forestry plantations. My question is what time of day do others check pen security, stock and top up water and feed..

I normally start pen visits at about 09.00hrs, knowing the poults at this time have dropped off their roost and filled their crops etc. Then another visit would be at about 16.00hrs to, once again check security, stock etc, then quietly leave allowing the poults to fuss and prepare for roost.

Now, I’m being told I should be at the pens at sunrise and sunset, but why.? Surely arriving at daybreak, in darkened woods, I run the risk of pushing the poults off their roost and out of the pen, with a similar problem occurring at sunset too..

I might be missing the obvious here so all thoughts and comments appreciated..

Thanks much..

 

 

 

[robbiep]

Who exactly is telling you this ?

I'd never want to be in or around the pen at dusk, when the birds are trying to settle and roost for the night, it sounds like a great way of disturbing the birds.

Broad daylight, move slowly and quietly, will cause the least disturbance

 

Edit : I do my pen checks after work, usually arriving at pens about 4pm

Edited July 19, 2021 by robbiep

[WalkedUp]

9 minutes ago, robbiep said:

I'd never want to be in or around the pen at dusk, when the birds are trying to settle and roost for the night, it sounds like a great way of disturbing the birds.

Agree 

[markm]

Do not walk pens at sunset.
 

The poults will be getting ready to roost, initially on the ground and then off the ground within days / weeks of them arriving. If you disturb them they may fly out the pen and those roosting drop down. 

[Jim Neal]

Go with your gut feeling, whoever's told you that would never make a very good gamekeeper

Birds do wake up early though, they're already active before the exact moment of sunrise, especially in winter when daylight hours are short.  You'll do no harm whatsoever arriving to a pen shortly after the sun's up as long as the light gets in OK.  Indeed, if there is a problem you're going to be in a far better position spotting it and getting it sorted as early in the day as possible.  Also if they get in the habit of expecting feed early in the morning you could say you're in with a chance of holding them better by training them to stick around for you rather than sauntering off....

As said above, you'll stress your birds if you go clattering in there too late in the day but that time depends on the light levels allowed in by the wood.  As an example, I look after two pens at opposite ends of the same wood (deciduous, mostly beech, ash & sycamore).  The bigger pen has had no felling done in that area in recent years and it's  black as the ace of spades in there by the time the sun actually sets!  In contrast just 400yds away the smaller pen has a recently clear-felled area to the west of it so the birds do a bit of evening sunbathing and are very late to bed.... it's a massive contrast!

I had a hectic day at work today so only got there after dinner time - topped up the water in the header tanks and walked the outside of the fence around, then promptly retreated.  I wouldn't dream of going in the pens, it's so easy to stress pheasants out.

Now, when your birds are finally out and about it's a different story.  If you're aiming at either wholly or partly hand feeding them you might want to be arriving at your wood at daybreak, whistling them up and scattering feed along the trail to your game cover as an example.

I personally am not a morning person but I'll go out after dark and feed my game covers, which works very well for me.

Beware of the idle know-it-all, you seem like you've got good common sense so trust your instincts.  There's a reason you're putting the graft in and they're not

[rimfire4969]

At the moment our birds are quite active from about 5 am. I think its fairly important to have one or two early mornings at a distance to see what your birds are doing. One morning a few seasons ago a could see the birds dropping out the pen to a fox waiting in that area of long grass, I guess we would of spotted it but my early morning saved a few birds. I certainly would not be too close to the pens at dusk.

[Salmo9]

Thanks guys - really appreciate all your comments. I’ll continue with my line of thought and see how things go.. we do have a  syndicate member with a CF rifle scouting for Charlie so another good reason for me to be out of the way early doors.

These past visits the poults have just chilled in this hot weather and dust bathing seems to be their thing. I never thought I’d say this but for once our pens look really inviting with plenty of shade and a cooling breeze. Long may it last.

Also noted, they’re not hitting the water and pellets hard at all. Me thinks it’ll be due to this heat plus a bit of anxiety in their new home. I’m sure it’ll be ‘business as usual’ when this weather turns..

Cheers for now..

[robbiep]

1 hour ago, Salmo9 said:

Thanks guys - really appreciate all your comments. I’ll continue with my line of thought and see how things go.. we do have a  syndicate member with a CF rifle scouting for Charlie so another good reason for me to be out of the way early doors.

These past visits the poults have just chilled in this hot weather and dust bathing seems to be their thing. I never thought I’d say this but for once our pens look really inviting with plenty of shade and a cooling breeze. Long may it last.

Also noted, they’re not hitting the water and pellets hard at all. Me thinks it’ll be due to this heat plus a bit of anxiety in their new home. I’m sure it’ll be ‘business as usual’ when this weather turns..

Cheers for now..

I was up at our shoot on Tuesday afternoon about 4pm, after work. Birds all dust bathing and having a great time. Like you, not a lot of food seemed to have been used in the previous 48 hours, reckon it's the heat too.

[Jim Neal]

On 22/07/2021 at 20:53, Salmo9 said:

Thanks guys - really appreciate all your comments. I’ll continue with my line of thought and see how things go.. we do have a  syndicate member with a CF rifle scouting for Charlie so another good reason for me to be out of the way early doors.

The no.1 priority is the effectiveness of your husbandry, so the vermin man needs to work around you - not the other way around.  But if you've got a decent enough arrangement going on and the birds aren't lacking your attention then don't fix what's not broken in terms of the time of day you visit.  Just don't go too late.

On 22/07/2021 at 20:53, Salmo9 said:

These past visits the poults have just chilled in this hot weather and dust bathing seems to be their thing. I never thought I’d say this but for once our pens look really inviting with plenty of shade and a cooling breeze. Long may it last.

Good signs, they seem to be acting like healthy, happy birds

On 22/07/2021 at 20:53, Salmo9 said:

Also noted, they’re not hitting the water and pellets hard at all. Me thinks it’ll be due to this heat plus a bit of anxiety in their new home. I’m sure it’ll be ‘business as usual’ when this weather turns..

That's just a tad concerning.  How many weeks have they been in the pen now?  The usual pattern is for them to be a little slow after release to start eating, due to the stress of being moved into the pen, but after 3-5 days their feed consumption should be ravenous.

Do you use electrolyte in the water?  If not I'd definitely get some in there (I've found AFS Supplies best value for money).  It helps avoid dehydration immediately after release and also later on in the hotter temperatures; also stimulates their appetite to get the nutrition into them.

Don't forget you will need to worm your birds too, every 3 weeks or so.  If feed consumption drops off it's an indicator they're not happy

[Salmo9]

Hi Jim - thanks for your detailed response.. I tend to arrive at the first pen about 09.30hrs and check perimeter security and HV fence status, then into the pen to grab a half bag of pellets and off to the first feeder - Those 20Kg bags are too much for me to lump about so decant them into smaller amounts.. Our birds are fed ad-lib and it’ll be the same when they’re liberated and fending for themselves. Once all feeders are topped up then it’s on to the water. Once again, grab a half full water container (25L) and onto the first drinker. Visually scanning the poults and ground as I go.. Picked a couple of corpses up today, both appeared to be victims of either buzzards or sparrow hawks. Might even be a red tailed kite. Saw one over the pen today being mobbed by a carrion crow. Keep up the good work, that crow..

The poults have been in a week now and as you suggested ravenous, scoffing pellets and supping plenty of water.. Not using electrolyte in the water but will investigate..

We’ll be worming next week with liquid additives as opposed to the usual medicated pellets. This will be a first for us..

Currently using about 50kg’s No.2 grower pellets per day for one thousand poults spread over a few pens which I would think is OK. Water is approximately 70 litres per day.. Plus, heat wave has passed for the time being, weathers overcast with showers and the woods are now a bit gloomier too..

Cheers..

[woods&wurz]

Have you got anyone with access to or can buy Panacur sheep wormer?. It's nearly the same active wormer ingredient as the medicated food.

I use 1ml per bird in a day drinking water then re dose around 10 -12 days later to catch any worm eggs that have developed within that period. I personally think you can see the difference after you've dosed them, they  just seem brighter.

Medicated pellets are good though if you have a case of gaps, they ensure most /all birds get a dose of the wormer.

[Salmo9]

23 hours ago, woods&wurz said:

Have you got anyone with access to or can buy Panacur sheep wormer?. It's nearly the same active wormer ingredient as the medicated food.

I use 1ml per bird in a day drinking water then re dose around 10 -12 days later to catch any worm eggs that have developed within that period. I personally think you can see the difference after you've dosed them, they  just seem brighter.

Medicated pellets are good though if you have a case of gaps, they ensure most /all birds get a dose of the wormer.

That’s interesting Squire.. I’d heard about a sheep wormer doing the business but it was all a bit vague in description at the time. I’ll look into this if it’ll save a few bob..

Many thanks for the info..

[Jim Neal]

I'd be less interested in saving a few pounds, and more interested in saving as many deaths as possible by using the most appropriate medication in the best possible way.

We've used panacur, it's OK, but not at that vague dilution ratio advised above.

Gallifen is what you need, it's intended for poultry, your vet will prescribe it to you.  We have been advised to use it at 1ml per 4L of drinking water.  Gallifen is, as I understand it, essentially the same active ingredient as Panacur but with one vital difference:  This substance is a suspension, rather than a solution - in other words, it contains tiny particles floating around in the water.  When the water stands still, the particles drop out of suspension.  Panacur drops out of suspension quite quickly, whereas Gallifen stays in suspension for a lot longer.  The reason you don't want it dropping out of suspension is you'll end up with the medication sitting in a layer on the bottom of the drinking tray whilst the birds drink the clear, un-medicated water above it.

One thing I've noted from your previous post, you appear not to have an automatic water system but instead use tubs/trays?  If so, there's part of your problem with the health of your birds.  The stupid things stand in drinking tubs/trays and poop in them.  Poop and dirt build up in the trays very quickly, the bottom line being your birds are drinking rancid water and spreading their diseases around super-quick.  I understand it's an investment in time and money to do so but you really do need an automatic water system fed from a tank.  The best setup is to have a main tank, typically a 1,000L IBC and have that feeding a smaller tank like a 150L barrel which you use as a header tank.  Fill the header tank from your main tank, and the header tank feeds the pen.  I'll draw you a diagram of a typical system if you want.

Using a system like that you can accurately administer drugs and supplements to your birds, and if you swish out the drinkers every day they are always drinking clean enough water so as not to be spreading infections around at an unacceptable rate.  This also saves on water wastage.

Regarding lugging the feed about, a wheelbarrow solves a lot of problems

All the best with it mate, it's a journey, you won't be an expert overnight but just keep trying to improve.  I'm not the oldest and most experienced gamekeeper out there but I've been through a fair few trials with it and have a reasonable amount of experience to share learned from hard knocks, as do many others, you only need to ask

[TIDES EDGE]

Jim Neals post is spot on    reading the rest of the posts no one mentions walking the birds in through the pop holes last thing in the evening does no one do this anymore ?.

 

[robbiep]

 

3 hours ago, TIDES EDGE said:

Jim Neals post is spot on    reading the rest of the posts no one mentions walking the birds in through the pop holes last thing in the evening does no one do this anymore ?.

 

I thought we'd just established that being around the pen last thing of an evening was a bad idea !

When I'm checking the pen in the first couple of weeks I like to make sure that any stray birds know how to get back inside, but I'm there at 5pm or so. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by robbiep

[ShootingEgg]

On 19/07/2021 at 22:35, robbiep said:

I'd never want to be in or around the pen at dusk, when the birds are trying to settle and roost for the night, it sounds like a great way of disturbing the birds.

This. You push them off roost and are more likely to then roost on the floor ready for a fox to enjoy.. 9am and 4pm is fine. Again just move slowly and quietly so you don't disturb them . Check the water food and fence still has power.. and check no damage to pen. Then leave them be for the day and then night

On 01/08/2021 at 17:08, TIDES EDGE said:

Jim Neals post is spot on    reading the rest of the posts no one mentions walking the birds in through the pop holes last thing in the evening does no one do this anymore ?.

 

Do this for the first few weeks to make sure they are back in, once bigger and a bit more wise you may not find them that close.. but then doging In can help if you have a steady dog 

Edited August 2, 2021 by ShootingEgg

[Salmo9]

Once again guys, many thanks for all your detailed responses. I’ve gleaned some really useful information and in some instances the info supplied supports my own opinions and beliefs.

Our birds are now a lot bolder and looking good but with a few bloody bums on display too. Also spotted two of last years cocks dodging about one pen. Now, would I be right in assuming these cheeky lads have grabbed the opportunity for some high protein grub plus easy passion with, shall we say, a captive audience of young hens.?? Both cocks fully tailed when first spotted but not anymore... Hmmm..

[ShootingEgg]

Free food and new ladies, the old boys will be living their best life.

[Jim Neal]

I'm not so sure this year's hen poults would be receptive to the advances of a mature cock bird?  However the cocks might well do some damage in trying.  I'd keep an eye on it and if it looks like they're causing a problem, do something about it.

[jall25]

On 04/08/2021 at 21:01, Salmo9 said:

Once again guys, many thanks for all your detailed responses. I’ve gleaned some really useful information and in some instances the info supplied supports my own opinions and beliefs.

Our birds are now a lot bolder and looking good but with a few bloody bums on display too. Also spotted two of last years cocks dodging about one pen. Now, would I be right in assuming these cheeky lads have grabbed the opportunity for some high protein grub plus easy passion with, shall we say, a captive audience of young hens.?? Both cocks fully tailed when first spotted but not anymore... Hmmm..

The tail feathers will have come out because the mature birds will be moulting now

 

Blood on the bums of the poults usually indicates too high a stocking density / not enough cover in the pen

 

regards