Channel Migrants

[discobob]

12 hours ago, oowee said:

How would you know that? I guess those that voted for them are embarrassed about their poor decision making. 😂

I did vote for them - but as @Newbie to this says they were the best of a bad choice

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

No doubt. That bitterness and resentment will eat away until the vote is overturned until we’re back in by one means or another. That’s democracy for you. 🙂
Can’t wait, cos then there’ll be no more poverty, homelessness, energy crisis, struggling NHS, hospital waiting lists, strikes or migrants! Sorted. 

Ahh I see we are talking about different votes. 

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

On our way to Oowees land of "Milk and Honey"

Cant see how we are going to get there. There is no system for it. 

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

The Albanian president is demanding we issue them all with visas so they don't have to risk the crossing  and can fly here 

The other problem is we haven't got control because we haven't left the ECHR which we surely should have done?

Not sure why you think leaving ECHR is a good move. The standing of the UK rests on compliance with international standards. A strong legal framework is a crucial element of our stability as a nation.

Missed the remarks from Albania. Unfortunately we have lost our EU lever so I guess we look like a weak link in the chain for Albanian migrants. 

[Rem260]

16 hours ago, oowee said:

Which ever way you look at it I am so glad I did not vote for this lot. 

Who did you vote for in the last election. Or did you not vote.

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, Rem260 said:

Who did you vote for in the last election. Or did you not vote.

Not this lot 🤣

I just heard on the radio that Albanians are offered the chance to come to uk for a better life. They say yes get the bill and dont have the money. The traffickers says don't worry pay us back out of your earnings here. They come to UK at which point they are economic migrants but the traffickers want them to work to pay them back. At this point they claim asylum as they cannot return for fear of persecution.   If that's true this is complete madness. Anyone from anywhere can make the same arrangement. 

[Rem260]

Just now, oowee said:

Not this lot 🤣

 

Why can you not answer who. Is it that embarrassing for you. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Cant see how we are going to get there. There is no system for it. 

Eh ?
Th land of milk and honey doesnt exist , its a construct, invented by politicians , usually stupid lefty ones , to get you to vote for them !
Then they will borrow the money for the short time they will be in power , whilst inviting in the the next generation of 3rd world labour voters.
The plebs are very slowly getting wise to this though , thats why despite tory failings, the chances of them getting into power are slightly less than nil.

 

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Not sure why you think leaving ECHR is a good move. The standing of the UK rests on compliance with international standards. A strong legal framework is a crucial element of our stability as a nation.

I find it funny how some of the most successful nations arent a member of the ECHR , some of them also have the most draconian legal frameworks too, yet have excellent 'standing'
We could easily create a legal framework , or constitution, that would surpass the ECHR in scope , but without all the stupidity, the problem is having a civil service that does as its told , and doesnt hamper this governments reforms at every step.

 

2 hours ago, oowee said:

Missed the remarks from Albania. Unfortunately we have lost our EU lever so I guess we look like a weak link in the chain for Albanian migrants. 

We are a weak link for any illegal migrants.
The Albanian PM has asked the UK to just dish out visas , so they dont have to cross the channel in dinghies !
Ask yourself, why would an Albanian national want to come to the UK without applying for a proper visa ?
Because they have a criminal record that would bar them from entry.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-63496336

1 minute ago, oowee said:

I just heard on the radio that Albanians are offered the chance to come to uk for a better life. They say yes get the bill and dont have the money. The traffickers says don't worry pay us back out of your earnings here. They come to UK at which point they are economic migrants but the traffickers want them to work to pay them back. At this point they claim asylum as they cannot return for fear of persecution.   If that's true this is complete madness. Anyone from anywhere can make the same arrangement. 

I think we have established they cannot work here legally as an asylum seeker, so how will they earn money ??

Let me think.....

Chances are they are already criminals , so ....

https://irpimedia.irpi.eu/en-albanian-mafia-uk-cocaine-supply/

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/albanian-drugs-gang-who-came-25015232

In 2020, Albanians were reportedly the largest foreign national group in UK prisons with over 1,500 inmates, representing roughly 10% of the foreign prison population in the UK, rising from 2% in 2013.

Now Im not saying every Albanian is a criminal ...
Its just most of the ones in the UK are.

 

[oowee]

32 minutes ago, Rem260 said:

Why can you not answer who. Is it that embarrassing for you. 

It's not embarrassing at all it's simply none of your business. My point being that anyone could see that Borris ia a door handle to vote for him was to invite all of the issues we are now faced with. Why would anyone do that?  

[oowee]

28 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Eh ?
Th land of milk and honey doesnt exist , its a construct, invented by politicians , usually stupid lefty ones , to get you to vote for them !
Then they will borrow the money for the short time they will be in power , whilst inviting in the the next generation of 3rd world labour voters.
The plebs are very slowly getting wise to this though , thats why despite tory failings, the chances of them getting into power are slightly less than nil.

 

I find it funny how some of the most successful nations arent a member of the ECHR , some of them also have the most draconian legal frameworks too, yet have excellent 'standing'
We could easily create a legal framework , or constitution, that would surpass the ECHR in scope , but without all the stupidity, the problem is having a civil service that does as its told , and doesnt hamper this governments reforms at every step.

 

We are a weak link for any illegal migrants.
The Albanian PM has asked the UK to just dish out visas , so they dont have to cross the channel in dinghies !
Ask yourself, why would an Albanian national want to come to the UK without applying for a proper visa ?
Because they have a criminal record that would bar them from entry.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-63496336

I think we have established they cannot work here legally as an asylum seeker, so how will they earn money ??

Let me think.....

Chances are they are already criminals , so ....

https://irpimedia.irpi.eu/en-albanian-mafia-uk-cocaine-supply/

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/albanian-drugs-gang-who-came-25015232

In 2020, Albanians were reportedly the largest foreign national group in UK prisons with over 1,500 inmates, representing roughly 10% of the foreign prison population in the UK, rising from 2% in 2013.

Now Im not saying every Albanian is a criminal ...
Its just most of the ones in the UK are.

 

The point made this morning was that not providing a safe a legal route created the very basis of the claim for asylum for those that made the journey. This process of migrants being indebted as a result of travel must surely put them in the hands of criminals and the net result being they end up in prison.

[Rem260]

7 minutes ago, oowee said:

It's not embarrassing at all it's simply none of your business. My point being that anyone could see that Borris ia a door handle to vote for him was to invite all of the issues we are now faced with. Why would anyone do that?  

So why is it your business to come on here and continually bang on about who you wouldn't vote for and give no alternative. To vote for Boris kept Corbyn out. Or would you have preferred him?

Edited November 3, 2022 by Rem260

[Rewulf]

26 minutes ago, oowee said:

The point made this morning was that not providing a safe a legal route created the very basis of the claim for asylum for those that made the journey. 

Would you prefer we just sent some planes over to the 'refugees' country of origin, with some visas, they could just fill out themselves?
We might need a lot of planes...

Plus , you might scoff at how ludicrous that sounds, but thats exactly what the Albanian PM suggested, and Im sure your mates at labour HQ would think its a great idea ?
The Albanian government also loves the idea , because it empties the country of some of their vast criminal element, an element that rocks up on these shores, of which you have little to say about ?

26 minutes ago, oowee said:

This process of migrants being indebted as a result of travel must surely put them in the hands of criminals and the net result being they end up in prison.

They become indebted because they are CHOOSING the destination they WANT , which negates any real claim to refugee status or asylum.
If they were 'real' claims, they would simply claim asylum in the first safe country they got to surely ?

But they are either career criminal already , or young lads who want to get on the ladder, as foot soldiers for relatives already here , dishing out crime and misery on our streets.
This has to stop, its already gone too far, and the bleeding hearts who claim that Braverman et al , are some kind of ultra right wing racists , are clueless demented fools , who have no concept of what they are really dealing with .

Edited November 3, 2022 by Rewulf

[Yellow Bear]

2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

This has to stop, its already gone too far, and the bleeding hearts who claim that Braverman et al , are some kind of ultra right wing racists , are clueless demented fools , who have no concept of what they are really dealing with

This   +   many of them work idle for the civil service.

[Dave-G]

16 hours ago, oowee said:

🤣

Remainers trying to undo Brexit 😂 You don't need remainers to do that. Brexit is working it's own magic. 

 

No point me replying when when better wordsmiths than me have replied saying it a lot better than I can. 

[oowee]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Would you prefer we just sent some planes over to the 'refugees' country of origin, with some visas, they could just fill out themselves?
We might need a lot of planes...

Plus , you might scoff at how ludicrous that sounds, but thats exactly what the Albanian PM suggested, and Im sure your mates at labour HQ would think its a great idea ?
The Albanian government also loves the idea , because it empties the country of some of their vast criminal element, an element that rocks up on these shores, of which you have little to say about ?

They become indebted because they are CHOOSING the destination they WANT , which negates any real claim to refugee status or asylum.
If they were 'real' claims, they would simply claim asylum in the first safe country they got to surely ?

But they are either career criminal already , or young lads who want to get on the ladder, as foot soldiers for relatives already here , dishing out crime and misery on our streets.
This has to stop, its already gone too far, and the bleeding hearts who claim that Braverman et al , are some kind of ultra right wing racists , are clueless demented fools , who have no concept of what they are really dealing with .

Or (as was presented this morning) they become victims simply by traveling which in turn virtually guarantees asylum.

It has to stop, I completely agree. The reason ultra right wing Braverman is brought in is precisely because the tories are so constrained by their rhetoric that they are unable to act rationally. If you have a problem with criminals you don't simply build more prisons. A more intelligent solution is called for. Unfortunately the party is so infested with bile and a fear of more right wing elements that it is forced to pander to the demands even when many realise it's a policy going nowhere. A policy of appeasement.

[discobob]

5 minutes ago, oowee said:

If you have a problem with criminals you don't simply build more prisons

No, but you don't make it that prison is a reasonable option for getting caught which is what is happening nowadays

[Newbie to this]

16 minutes ago, oowee said:

If you have a problem with criminals you don't simply build more prisons.

No, in this case you get to deporting.

And do not let the ECHR or the bleeding hearts brigade interfere.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Newbie to this

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

No, in this case you get to deporting.

But to do that you need the mechanisms to start the process. Simply not processing applicants (4% of last years intake have been processed), sending them to Rwanda just makes it so much worse because this is a treatment of symptoms which will just cost more in the long run. Short term knee jerk reaction as always. 

Proposition now is to recruit 400 new border force staff. Nothing wrong with this but why are we 400 short in the first place? Because the services have been paired back over the last 12 years to satisfy a Tory base that has not kept up. It's the same with all of the public services. Cut until they don't work and then blamed for not working. 

[Newbie to this]

It should be the Military keeping our border security in check.

These people should be treated as a threat, until it is ascertained they are not.

The navy should be patrolling the channel, turning boats back.

The army should be on the beaches, arresting and detaining those who make it past the navy.

They should be detained for a short period of time, for them to inform the military, of their identity and country of origin, all of which should then be checked, verified and then ascertain the eligibility for asylum.

Those that refuse to identity themselves should then be on an RAF flight to Rwanda. Those who have no claim to asylum, should then be on an RAF flight back to their home nation.

Those who have a claim should be assessed on a person by person basis as to whether they, remain in the UK, are returned to France, or forwarded on to Rwanda.

I still stand by my earlier comment that any who enter the UK illegally should never be allowed to remain.

They should claim asylum in any of the other safe countries they have entered, and then seek legal channels to enter the UK should they wish to come here.

Deportations to Rwanda should stop the illegal crossings drastically. To those who say it won't, I say how do you know without giving it a chance.

As for those calling Braverman 'Ultra right wing', well that's just comical.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Newbie to this

[Scully]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

It's not embarrassing at all it's simply none of your business. My point being that anyone could see that Borris ia a door handle to vote for him was to invite all of the issues we are now faced with. Why would anyone do that?  

Don’t be silly; people did it because there wasn’t a viable alternative! Many folk voted for Boris out of fear that Corbyn would get in if they didn’t, which was a distinct possibility. 
To vote for anyone BUT Boris was a wasted vote which could have had us still in lockdown and sending aid to Russia rather than the Ukraine! 🙂

[oowee]

8 minutes ago, Scully said:

Don’t be silly; people did it because there wasn’t a viable alternative! Many folk voted for Boris out of fear that Corbyn would get in if they didn’t, which was a distinct possibility. 
To vote for anyone BUT Boris was a wasted vote which could have had us still in lockdown and sending aid to Russia rather than the Ukraine! 🙂

At least gas prices would be low 🙂 I will agree Corbyn would probably have been just as bad. I take the point about letting some one in through the back door but we have to start somewhere. 

12 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

It should be the Military keeping our border security in check.

The navy should be patrolling the channel, turning boats back.

The army should be on the beaches, arresting and detaining those who make it past the navy.

They should be detained for a short period of time, for them to inform the military, of their identity and country of origin, all of which should then be checked, verified and then ascertain the eligibility for asylum.

Those that refuse to identity themselves should then be on an RAF flight to Rwanda. Those who have no claim to asylum, should then be on an RAF flight back to their home nation.

Those who have a claim should be assessed on a person by person basis as to whether they, remain in the UK, are returned to France, or forwarded on to Rwanda.

I still stand by my earlier comment that any who enter the UK illegally should never be allowed to remain.

They should claim asylum in any of the other safe countries they have entered, and then seek legal channels to enter the UK should they wish to come here.

Deportations to Rwanda should stop the illegal crossings drastically. To those who say it won't, I say how do you know without giving it a chance.

As for those calling Braverman 'Ultra right wing', well that's just comical.

I can see the simple appeal. Ride rough shod over the rights of an asylum seeker today and the rest of the population tomorrow. If you want to live in a state like that then China is calling. 

[Scully]

7 minutes ago, oowee said:

At least gas prices would be low 🙂 I will agree Corbyn would probably have been just as bad. I take the point about letting some one in through the back door but we have to start somewhere. 

I can see the simple appeal. Ride rough shod over the rights of an asylum seeker today and the rest of the population tomorrow. If you want to live in a state like that then China is calling. 

There’s always an upside! 🙂

I don’t want the military in charge of anything, but there are 39 Vietnamese who would still have been alive today had they come to the UK via legal means. 

[12gauge82]

Teenage boy raped by a man in his 30s at a hotel housing migrants. 

 

[Newbie to this]

25 minutes ago, oowee said:

I can see the simple appeal. Ride rough shod over the rights of an asylum seeker today and the rest of the population tomorrow. If you want to live in a state like that then China is calling. 

That's one hell of a jump.

To be honest I'm more worried about the security of the UK, than a few asylum seekers rights, and I'd go as far to say, if they are true asylum seekers, they would fully understand and respect the precautions.

7 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Teenage boy raped by a man in his 30s at a hotel housing migrants. 

 

His rights don't count though. Nor does the woman who now sleeps with a hammer, because she was woken to find an illegal trying to break in, she rang the police who failled to attend.

Or the other reported case of the couple who found a illegal in their house. I'm sure their are plenty more who's rights don't count too.

16 minutes ago, Scully said:

I don’t want the military in charge of anything

Neither do I, but I don't see any other option. Until these crossings are seen as a threat and dealt with as such, the invasion will continue.

The only way I see to do that is with the military.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Newbie to this

[Rewulf]

22 minutes ago, oowee said:

I can see the simple appeal. Ride rough shod over the rights of an asylum seeker today and the rest of the population tomorrow. If you want to live in a state like that then China is calling. 

This is the fundamental mistake that keeps being made in threads like this.

An elected government has a duty to its citizens, to serve and protect them, yet , when boatloads of people with made up identities , and dubious stories, rock up on our shore, we have to make sure that these people , who are NOT citizens, are pandered to , and their rights protected, often to the detriment of the countries own , tax paying citizens.

Asylum is not a right for anyone to claim, its a privilege GRANTED to those who are proven to deserve it.

I would much rather ride rough shod over these mostly economic migrants, than put a single citizen of this country in danger.
Thats my opinion , but its the governments RESPONSIBILITY to do just that.

[oowee]

20 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Teenage boy raped by a man in his 30s at a hotel housing migrants. 

 

Another perfect example of a shody response to the crisis. Why are children housed with adults? Cruella should resign over permitting this overcrowding. 

[oowee]

11 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

This is the fundamental mistake that keeps being made in threads like this.

An elected government has a duty to its citizens, to serve and protect them, yet , when boatloads of people with made up identities , and dubious stories, rock up on our shore, we have to make sure that these people , who are NOT citizens, are pandered to , and their rights protected, often to the detriment of the countries own , tax paying citizens.

Asylum is not a right for anyone to claim, its a privilege GRANTED to those who are proven to deserve it.

I would much rather ride rough shod over these mostly economic migrants, than put a single citizen of this country in danger.
Thats my opinion , but its the governments RESPONSIBILITY to do just that.

I agree wholeheartedly but you cannot take away the rights of migrants without taking away the rights of citizens. It wont stop on the sea. Look at the forthcoming bonfire of EU legislation. It all erodes the rights of everyone else. We already have a police force with inadequate checks on people in power, do we really want to allow them to act with impunity? 

This has been a problem of the Govt's own making there is simply no planning and no preparation.  All comes a bit late when the horse has bolted.