A Fourth Variant Arrives

[Scully]

10 hours ago, Vince Green said:

My cousin's husband died from covid which he caught while in hospital.  He was in isolation already because he was having chemo so the only person he could have realistically caught it off was a member of staff.

It's a shame, his progress on the chemo was going well. That's not to say he wouldn't have died from the cancer eventually but they will never know.

To go through all that, the operation, the chemo etc and then get covid in hospital and die is tragic.

No doubt some will say he had underlying conditions so he shouldn't be counted as a covid death  but I'm sure if he hadn't caught covid he would still be alive, not a well man but alive

 

Yes, that is sad. I’m pretty sure there will be many similar stories around the world. It’s an awful virus. 

[udderlyoffroad]

Well 'Christmas is cancelled'. Again.  

The only question in my mind is how long the restrictions will last this time.  Bearing in mind that the restrictions imposed last December lasted until July this year!

When will we as a country grow a pair and tell our political masters to stick their liberty-crushing restrictions where the sun doesn't shine?

[Yellow Bear]

1 minute ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Well 'Christmas is cancelled'. Again.  

The only question in my mind is how long the restrictions will last this time.  Bearing in mind that the restrictions imposed last December lasted until July this year!

When will we as a country grow a pair and tell our political masters to stick their liberty-crushing restrictions where the sun doesn't shine?

Just think yourself lucky you are not in one of the "socialist" controlled, devolved areas.   Their liberty-crushing restrictions are even greater.

[TRINITY]

On 29/11/2021 at 11:30, udderlyoffroad said:

Well 'Christmas is cancelled'. Again.  

 

Brilliant news, I hate it and all the commercial tripe in the 2 month build up. Gone way beyond what it is all about and nothing more than a commercial exercise to drive the gullible into debt.

Bah hum bug, roll on boxing day😃😃😃👍

[udderlyoffroad]

1 hour ago, TRINITY said:

Brilliant news, I hate it

<sigh>

Ok, the freedom to hold Christmas celebrations or not, as we see fit.

One thing we can guarantee, if Boris says something won't happen, it will.  I'm going down the pub later, because I'm pretty sure they'll be shut within a week or so.

Jacinda Arden actually gave her citizens permission to do a number 1 in other people's houses in a presser yesterday, and it passed by with barely a comment.  I thought the police deeming scotch eggs not a suitable meal was peak Covid madness, but it seems we have new depths to plum. 

And let's not even discuss whether 4 jabs a year counts as a vaccine - more like a prophylactic. 

It is baffling, and a little scary to me, how vast swathes of the population are ok with this.

[Dave-G]

5 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

<sigh>

Ok, the freedom to hold Christmas celebrations or not, as we see fit.

One thing we can guarantee, if Boris says something won't happen, it will.  I'm going down the pub later, because I'm pretty sure they'll be shut within a week or so.

Jacinda Arden actually gave her citizens permission to do a number 1 in other people's houses in a presser yesterday, and it passed by with barely a comment.  I thought the police deeming scotch eggs not a suitable meal was peak Covid madness, but it seems we have new depths to plum. 

And let's not even discuss whether 4 jabs a year counts as a vaccine - more like a prophylactic. 

It is baffling, and a little scary to me, how vast swathes of the population are ok with this.

Are you suggesting all the hospital and care home deaths we had before vaccines came is a better way to ride it out?

[udderlyoffroad]

8 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Are you suggesting all the hospital and care home deaths we had before vaccines came is a better way to ride it out?

I think if you were to put the following search string into google or your search engine of choice, you'd have the answer to that:

Define:false dichotomy

No. No, I'm not.

By the way, hospitals forcing patients out onto care homes afore they were recovered wasn't a pandemic invention, just people suddenly started giving a rodent's rectum about it. 

 

[TRINITY]

18 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

<sigh>

Ok, the freedom to hold Christmas celebrations or not, as we see fit.

One thing we can guarantee, if Boris says something won't happen, it will.  I'm going down the pub later, because I'm pretty sure they'll be shut within a week or so.

Jacinda Arden actually gave her citizens permission to do a number 1 in other people's houses in a presser yesterday, and it passed by with barely a comment.  I thought the police deeming scotch eggs not a suitable meal was peak Covid madness, but it seems we have new depths to plum. 

And let's not even discuss whether 4 jabs a year counts as a vaccine - more like a prophylactic. 

It is baffling, and a little scary to me, how vast swathes of the population are ok with this.

• A bit pessimistic of you . Ok restrictions may tighten. Can you remember last Christmas, the government bent to the howls and pressure from the media to lallow a reasonably relaxed set of rules. When the stupid day came and went, within weeks cases rocketed. The same voices were then howling and blaming g the government for not stopping Christmas. 
• Let's wait and see. The only thing I will predict is that whatever restrictions take effect in England. They will be even stricter in Wales and Scotland. 

[Walker570]

On 28/10/2021 at 07:42, Scully said:

Agree.  We’re just going to have to learn to live with it I reckon. 

We already have. Getting on and enjoying every minute of every day.  When we were born we had the possibiltiy of polio, dyptheria, etc etc etc as well as having bombs dropped on us.

Where has that BRITISH STIFF UPPER LIP gone too. ??????

Strikes me we have become a country of whimps.

[udderlyoffroad]

11 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

A bit pessimistic of you . Ok restrictions may tighten. Can you remember last Christmas, the government bent to the howls and pressure from the media to lallow a reasonably relaxed set of rules.

You obviously don't remember that the lockdown and restrictions announced then lasted until July!!

The longest lockdown ever, despite vaccines, and all people remember is a kerfuffle over Christmas.  Machiavelli has nothing on these guys.

How about: No restrictions and we all make our own choices as functioning adults, the same as we do for all other matters pertaining to health? 

[TRINITY]

14 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

You obviously don't remember that the lockdown and restrictions announced then lasted until July!!

The longest lockdown ever, despite vaccines, and all people remember is a kerfuffle over Christmas.  Machiavelli has nothing on these guys.

How about: No restrictions and we all make our own choices as functioning adults, the same as we do for all other matters pertaining to health? 

Believe it or not, I generally agree with your views. My point being ,I still think there will be restrictions so will have to accept them . No country in the world will not have restrictions of some sort. 

I am one of the more vulnerable members of society and I have always taken care and made my own decisions in this on going pandemic. I still dont believe we will get another lockdown. Think we have had three and none have cured this pandemic. Ok cases drop but quickly rise. I think they are pointless and do more harm than good.

Any how. I still hate Christmas 

 

[Yellow Bear]

21 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

How about: No restrictions and we all make our own choices as functioning adults, the same as we do for all other matters pertaining to health? 

This is fine but, sadly, I find that most people these days, whilst demanding things for themselves do not give a flying fig for anyone else.   Too much I know my rights and very little I know my responsibilities.

[udderlyoffroad]

14 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

This is fine but, sadly, I find that most people these days, whilst demanding things for themselves do not give a flying fig for anyone else.

Eh?  These arguments have been done to death, but that’s the point of a vaccine, is it not?  It protects you, and only you.  Doesn’t reduce your transmissibility by much.  Therefore, other people’s actions are essentially irrelevant.  Therefore, Broris and your band of communist-party-card-carrrying-experts, leave us the hell alone and shove your restrictions where the sun doesn’t shine…

And all this for a variant that has yet to kill anybody.  The people affected are isolating at home, ***.

Meanwhile, 740'000 missed cancer diagnosis (potentially).  That will kill people.  But what do we get from the commenteriat?  Crickets, silence.  Not diddly sh...

 

 

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

It protects you, and only you.

Not so.  If you don't get the virus - then you can't pass it on - and that is protecting others.

3 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Doesn’t reduce your transmissibility by much.

It reduces the transmissibility 100% if it prevents you getting the virus.

4 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Therefore, other people’s actions are essentially irrelevant.

Again - not so.  In a population with a high vaccination rate - less people will get the virus, so less be carrying infection to pass it on, and so less will get infected.   

[udderlyoffroad]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Not so.  If you don't get the virus - then you can't pass it on - and that is protecting others.

That is *really* not how it works.  You can be carrying the virus, passing it on to others, whilst fully vaccinated.

4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

It reduces the transmissibility 100% if it prevents you getting the virus.

Demonstrably doesn't!!!

5 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

In a population with a high vaccination rate - less fewer people will get seriously ill with the virus, so less be carrying infection to pass it on, and so less will get infected.   

Fixed that for you.  Similar happens with herd immunity, which, by the way, happens regardless of whether it is government policy.

 

 

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, udderlyoffroad said:

That is *really* not how it works.  You can be carrying the virus, passing it on to others, whilst fully vaccinated.

FACT: If you don't have the virus - you cannot pass it on.

2 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Demonstrably doesn't!!!

FACT: If you don't have the virus - you cannot pass it on.

5 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

You can be carrying the virus

FACT: If you are carrying it - then you 'have' it (and can therefore pass it on).

[udderlyoffroad]

Fact: if you are fully vaccinated, you can still pass on the virus to other people.

Fact: It's an airborne virus.

Obvious conclusion: Mask mandates and lockdowns don't work - see the previous 18 months. 

5 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

FACT: If you don't have the virus - you cannot pass it on.

Unless you test yourself every time before you leave the house, how the hell could you possibly know??  Once again, as you're clearly struggling with this concept, this applies even if you're fully vaccinated.

 

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, udderlyoffroad said:

Fact: if you are fully vaccinated, you can still pass on the virus to other people.

Agreed (for once!) - IF you have the virus - you can pass it on.

2 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Unless you test yourself every time before you leave the house, how the hell could you possibly know??  Once again, as you're clearly struggling with this concept, this applies even if you're fully vaccinated.

You are considering this on an entirely individual basis.  Vaccines are also about community/society level factors.  Hence my disagreement with your statement;

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

It protects you, and only you.

That is simply not the whole story at all.  In fact it is a small part of the story. 

The whole aim of Govt. policy and hence the vaccination programme was/still is  about protecting "at mass population level" and so protecting the NHS, those in care homes, those vulnerable (such as diabetics, people with compromised immunity etc.).  Itv isn't all about you/me on an individual basis - it is about the overall population that makes up society.

[udderlyoffroad]

1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

You are considering this on an entirely individual basis.

Sigh.  I literally just mentioned herd immunity as a compliment to a vaccination programme.  Which IMHO we should work with, not against, as it will happen naturally anyway

Leaving aside public health, there are many arguments for vaccination on social, moral and economic grounds.

But let's stop pretending it prevents the spread of an airborne virus, eh?  It really is daft.

 

5 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The whole aim of Govt. policy and hence the vaccination programme was/still is  about protecting "at mass population level"

There are many, many people who would disagree with you.  I'm rather more on the fence on that point.

However, in light of yesterday's announcement by the health secretary, if you think a jab 4 times a year is a vaccination by any sort of commonly or medically understood definition, then we have little to agree on.  Being jabbed four times a year is a prophylactic, not a vaccine.

 

7 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

and so protecting the NHS

Thousands of excess deaths because the NHS stopped treating patients for anything else?  I have no desire to protect it.  Burn it to the ground, salt the earth, copy best elements of Dutch/German/Swiss model.  Make those who quote but 'muh US healthcare terrible' pay double.

 

12 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

those in care homes, those vulnerable (such as diabetics, people with compromised immunity etc.).  Itv isn't all about you/me on an individual basis - it is about the overall population that makes up society.

And there's more to the vulnerable peoples' life than bluddy COVID.  If they have no quality of life because they can't see their family, what's the point?

Everyone who wants to can get the jab, let's get on with life, there's no putting the genie back in its bottle.  That's best outcome for society by far.

And I resent deeply the implication that I'm only thinking about this on an individual basis.  You do not know me, I'll thank you to keep your judgemental attitude to yourself.

[Stonepark]

Covid19 strains including Omicron are now being transmitted country to country by the "Vaccinated" as non vax'd are still not allowed to fly.

 

Multiple studies show that the difference between levels of transmission of the "vax'd" and 'unvax'd & previously uninfected' are negligible.

the difference lies is between the "vax'd" and the 'unvax'd and recovered from infection' as the latter are 27 times less likely to be re-infected and transmit the virus, unlike the former.

 

The vax"jab" is also forcing the virus to evolve (hence the new strains emerging such as Omicron) with significant RNA mutations as the "vax" is leaky and not steralising, unlike true vaccines, hence the double and triple (and infinitum) jabbed still acquiring and transmitting Covid19.

 

15% of all common colds are caused by Coronaviruses and our immune systems have had no problems adapting and dealing with them over time, Covid19 is no different and the attempt to interfere by using a leaky 'jab' is now actually prolonging the problem.

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

And I resent deeply the implication that I'm only thinking about this on an individual basis.

I'm sorry for that - I used the word 'individual' rather than 'personal' because I specifically did not intend to suggest you were only considering your own situation - which you are quite right, I do not know.

[udderlyoffroad]

Thank you, and for what's worth my apologies for mounting my high horse rather too quickly.

 

[JohnfromUK]

8 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Thank you, and for what's worth my apologies for mounting my high horse rather too quickly.

 

Thank you no apology needed - you and I often have different views and am always happy to agree to differ, but that's all part of "life's rich tapestry"!  

[Scully]

The entire point of the vaccinations is to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. That is its only intention.
The vaccine WILL NOT prevent you from getting the virus NOR WILL IT prevent you from passing it on, but it is hoped it will prevent the vast majority of people who get the virus from being hospitalised, and thereby preventing the NHS from being overwhelmed. That is its one and only purpose. 
Just seen the news, and a clip from PM’s questions, and apparently we should all remain standing as the virus only strikes while we’re sitting! So there you go. 👍

Oh, and any ‘face covering’ will do, even a little face veil apparently. 

[ordnance]

Quote

 

Fact: if you are fully vaccinated, you can still pass on the virus to other people.

Fact: It's an airborne virus.

Obvious conclusion: Mask mandates and lockdowns don't work - see the previous 18 months. 

 

Could things not have being worse if mask mandates and lockdowns etc were not used ?

Quote

15% of all common colds are caused by Coronaviruses and our immune systems have had no problems adapting and dealing with them over time, Covid19 is no different and the attempt to interfere by using a leaky 'jab' is now actually prolonging the problem

.You know this how ?  i would be interested to see your evidence.