28 bore?

[London Best]

32 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

 

The 410 will drop small, medium and even geese to 35\40 yards when using the appropriate ammunition. The problem is that people use the wrong ammunition and chokes for the quarry leading to an often dismissive attitude to those who have tried it and found it wanting, when it is not the fault of the equipment but the user for failing to understand how best to use the 410.

 

 

Very true.

I am a keen user of my .410 guns and have used them for all quarry except geese. But they are not magnums and only shoot 14 gram (half ounce) loads. 
They are very effective to about thirty yards providing the shot size is kept small enough to fill the pattern. Nothing larger than 7’s and even No.9 kills pigeon/crows at that range.

[Salmo9]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

A twelve bore load in a twenty eight bore.

Let me be clear on this.. 28grm wasn’t and isn’t my first choice.. 21grms are my regular load. The main disadvantage with the sub gauges are cartridge availability plus my own lack of forward planning..!!

[Stonepark]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

Very true.

I am a keen user of my .410 guns and have used them for all quarry except geese. But they are not magnums and only shoot 14 gram (half ounce) loads. 
They are very effective to about thirty yards providing the shot size is kept small enough to fill the pattern. Nothing larger than 7’s and even No.9 kills pigeon/crows at that range.

My first 410 'ballistic table' drawn up based on Eley diary when I was 15 or 16 (pre Home Computers and printers 1992ish) which I found last year in dad's house after he had passed and we were emptying cupboards.

[London Best]

56 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

My first 410 'ballistic table' drawn up based on Eley diary when I was 15 or 16 (pre Home Computers and printers 1992ish) which I found last year in dad's house after he had passed and we were emptying cupboards.

Very interesting, and spot on in my opinion.

[Gas seal]

Wildflower.250 I would look at the different make and model of 28gauge shotguns and chose the one that suits you. As fellside said if you don’t like it sell it . I’ve used 28gauge for twenty years when I bought it no one told me to use the right cartridges for it, whatever they are, the cartridges I fired depends on what I am going to kill with the gun. I didn’t buy it to show off, not many people have seen me shoot it. I didn’t buy it to look at , l look at the target not the gun. It’s down to what people want to do with a shotgun. If you want one just go for it.

[Fellside]

11 hours ago, Salmo9 said:

Let me be clear on this.. 28grm wasn’t and isn’t my first choice.. 21grms are my regular load. The main disadvantage with the sub gauges are cartridge availability plus my own lack of forward planning..!!

Ta for the info - I’m only asking as I’m trying to learn what others find successful. I’m personally finding 23grams to be a nice ‘balanced’ load. 

[London Best]

8 hours ago, Fellside said:

Ta for the info - I’m only asking as I’m trying to learn what others find successful. I’m personally finding 23grams to be a nice ‘balanced’ load. 

The traditional English 2 1/2 inch 28 bore load was 9/16 ounce or 16 grams.  
The American 2 3/4 inch load through a heavier gun was 3/4 ounce or 21 gram.  
I guess the present day 23, 24, or even 28 gram loads have come about because more recently developed modern powders allow such loads to be fired without excessive pressures, but require a heavier gun than the English 5 lb 28 bores.

[Fellside]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

The traditional English 2 1/2 inch 28 bore load was 9/16 ounce or 16 grams.  
The American 2 3/4 inch load through a heavier gun was 3/4 ounce or 21 gram.  
I guess the present day 23, 24, or even 28 gram loads have come about because more recently developed modern powders allow such loads to be fired without excessive pressures, but require a heavier gun than the English 5 lb 28 bores.

Yes - always the balance of pattern density - v - recoil. My gun is certainly of the modern era and heavier than the dainty little 28 bore side by sides of the previous generation. I’m personally finding that 25 grams pattern brilliantly, but kicks unacceptably. 18 gram through 23 gram seems to be about right for my 6 1/4 lb gun. 

[London Best]

42 minutes ago, Fellside said:

25 grams pattern brilliantly, but kicks unacceptably. 18 gram through 23 gram seems to be about right for my 6 1/4 lb gun. 

My 12 bore weighs less than 6 1/4 lb but I feel no recoil with 28 gram cartridges.

[wymberley]

11 hours ago, Fellside said:

Ta for the info - I’m only asking as I’m trying to learn what others find successful. I’m personally finding 23grams to be a nice ‘balanced’ load. 

Of all the things that we can disagree on regarding shotguns, because recoil is a personal/individual assessment, general agreement is never possible. The lightest gun so far already mentioned is my 20 bore which comes in at 5lb 10oz. I use 25g in this but did try some 28 which I use in another heavier one. With the 25s there's nothing and I could acceptably use the 28s pretty much all day if necessary.

[Gas seal]

Some of the 28gauge cartridges are over the top with recoil. When I tested cartridges gamebore 16gram or hull cartridge( 19grams ) Where the best regarding recoil at the time. I use backing wallpaper, about a two feet length is enough , at 35yards to test the pattern. I found M or IM chokes gave me the best pattern. I’ve never used the full choke . Each gun will shoot different but the chokes make a big difference in the 28gauge. 

[Fellside]

4 hours ago, London Best said:

My 12 bore weighs less than 6 1/4 lb but I feel no recoil with 28 gram cartridges.

I’ve had guns like that - and then for some silly reason sold them….?! The Yildiz does transmit a bit of recoil however. It’s not about bad fit either - as it fits well. 

1 minute ago, Fellside said:

I’ve had guns like that - and then for some silly reason sold them….?! The Yildiz does transmit a bit of recoil however. It’s not about bad fit either - as it fits well. 

P.S could always be about velocity of course. Some ‘trendy’ cart’s are a bit O T T. 

[Weihrauch17]

Bear in mind BASC's betrayal on the use of Lead with absolutely no evidence, Just Cartridges have one listing only for 28 Bore cartridges @ £1299 per thousand.

[London Best]

36 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Bear in mind BASC's betrayal on the use of Lead with absolutely no evidence, Just Cartridges have one listing only for 28 Bore cartridges @ £1299 per thousand.

A bit rough if you are shooting pigeon or crows @ £33/box.

But for use on driven days it’s not so bad if you break it down:

150 bird day @ £600/gun.  
Average, say, 2 boxes lead @ £10 = £20
2 boxes non-toxic @ £33/box = £66. 
Difference is an extra £46 on a £600 day plus keepers tip.

Big deal.

Answer: don’t buy a 28 bore if you only shoot vermin.

[Gas seal]

If or when it becomes illegal to use lead pellets in shotguns manufacturers will make alternative cartridges. 10 g 12g 16g and 20g non lead cartridges are available in the U.K. I’m sure 28g and .410 will follow. Just cartridges were selling 12 gauge cartridges for about £5000 per 1000 not long ago. It’s going to cost more for cartridges in any gauge. I don’t think anyone would fire bismuth cartridges from any gun at vermin.

[paulinlincs]

I have no issues whatsoever using Fiochi 24g through my 28 gauge. Recoil is no worse than 28g through my 12 gauge. But it does fit me like a glove. 

[Fellside]

31 minutes ago, paulinlincs said:

I have no issues whatsoever using Fiochi 24g through my 28 gauge. Recoil is no worse than 28g through my 12 gauge. But it does fit me like a glove. 

It was the 25 gram Gamebore ‘Regal Game’ which I found to be a little punchier than expected. The Hull ‘High Pheasant’ don’t really draw my attention in the same way. As Wymberley said, it’s likely to be a personal / individual assessment. Recoil perception is a strange thing.

The only time recoil has bothered me in the past is with high volume pigeon shooting, using a game gun (12 bore). Even then I don’t really notice it for each cart’ fired - it tends to be accumulative. 

 

[Whitebridges]

Thanks for your posts one and all, an interesting read full of opinions. 

These days I have guns which are bored 28 , 20,  16, several 12's. 12 bore versatile in that I can shoot 2 ins to 3 and a half inch shells. I sold my 4:10 webley B/A long ago.

I own a Beretta 30in 28g 687 o/u and some of these cartridges below.  I like it and have shot some cracking game birds with it and made several good bags of pigeon with it. Am I in the wrong for using such OTT cartridges ?   

 

  

 

       

[Weihrauch17]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

A bit rough if you are shooting pigeon or crows @ £33/box.

But for use on driven days it’s not so bad if you break it down:

150 bird day @ £600/gun.  
Average, say, 2 boxes lead @ £10 = £20
2 boxes non-toxic @ £33/box = £66. 
Difference is an extra £46 on a £600 day plus keepers tip.

Big deal.

Answer: don’t buy a 28 bore if you only shoot vermin.

Or want any practice on Clays.

[Fellside]

1 hour ago, Whitebridges said:

Thanks for your posts one and all, an interesting read full of opinions. 

These days I have guns which are bored 28 , 20,  16, several 12's. 12 bore versatile in that I can shoot 2 ins to 3 and a half inch shells. I sold my 4:10 webley B/A long ago.

I own a Beretta 30in 28g 687 o/u and some of these cartridges below.  I like it and have shot some cracking game birds with it and made several good bags of pigeon with it. Am I in the wrong for using such OTT cartridges ?   

 

  

 

       

I was referring to some cart’s being OTT within the context of velocity - not load. As for ‘wrong’…..definitely not. If they work for you, happy days.

[Gas seal]

There are more types of cartridges available for 28gauge now than when l first bought my gun. Like any other shotguns we will all use different types of cartridges. I’ve used ITM for many years and after loading 10gauge with card wads l made my own. Using ITM and TSS in 28gauge ,maybe it’s over the top ,but I can keep shooting wildfowl . 

[Fellside]

9 hours ago, Gas seal said:

There are more types of cartridges available for 28gauge now than when l first bought my gun. Like any other shotguns we will all use different types of cartridges. I’ve used ITM for many years and after loading 10gauge with card wads l made my own. Using ITM and TSS in 28gauge ,maybe it’s over the top ,but I can keep shooting wildfowl . 

I’ve heard that TSS is great for fowling. I would be concerned about potentially biting one of these super hard pellets during a meal. Are you able to find and remove the TSS shot? 

[Gas seal]

Hi the shot in the the cartridges is ITM number three shot. The TSS l use is number seven shot a lot smaller. The TSS can go through the goose . It leaves a wound channel like steel shot. Biting heavy metal pellets would be the same as biting steel pellets not good. Using steel or any heavy metal pellets have the problem of removing them from game. This must be a problem for game dealers.  I find with my 28gauge I can do all my shooting with it. The  28gauge shotguns throw  good patterns,even better with the right chokes . Three inch chamber guns are now made , just like other gauges of shotguns ,and Fiocchi make three inch cartridges. Good luck with your new gun.

[Fellside]

1 hour ago, Gas seal said:

Hi the shot in the the cartridges is ITM number three shot. The TSS l use is number seven shot a lot smaller. The TSS can go through the goose . It leaves a wound channel like steel shot. Biting heavy metal pellets would be the same as biting steel pellets not good. Using steel or any heavy metal pellets have the problem of removing them from game. This must be a problem for game dealers.  I find with my 28gauge I can do all my shooting with it. The  28gauge shotguns throw  good patterns,even better with the right chokes . Three inch chamber guns are now made , just like other gauges of shotguns ,and Fiocchi make three inch cartridges. Good luck with your new gun.

Thank you Gas seal - that is most helpful. I think some of the Americans use a sort of food industry metal detector…..type of thing. I have looked at prices here: about £80. If I start dabbling in non-lead I may invest. Cheaper than dental bills…….🙂

[Stonepark]

At 50 YARDS tss 9 WILL PENETRATE 2 INCH AND tss 7 OVER 3 INCHES, ASSUMING YOU ARE BELOW THE BIRD, IN NEARLY ALL CASES YOU ARE LOOKING AT PASS THROUGH THE BREAST MEAT.

 

I had a goose a fellow shooter shot recently at 40 yards with TSS, all you got were narrow wound channels through the meat, most of the TSS have completely passed through the bird.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Stonepark