Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[amateur]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

It's ready to blow apparently and now we are told it will be shut down. Done properly this would take six months but apparently Russia can do it in two days. Its the largest plant in the Europe / the World. Where is our Govt in all of this????? The tories are a complete waste of space.

There are storms in Corsica.

What is our rudderless government doing about that, too. 😂

[Rem260]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

It's ready to blow apparently and now we are told it will be shut down. Done properly this would take six months but apparently Russia can do it in two days. Its the largest plant in the Europe / the World. Where is our Govt in all of this????? The tories are a complete waste of space.

So which party do you think would take a harder stance against Putin. Let's hear your reasoning.

[oowee]

Whats it got to do with the Govt? 😂

Do you not think they should be making preparations., lobbying, deciding action re article 5, meeting with other world leaders to decide combined actions and responses? 

4 minutes ago, Rem260 said:

So which party do you think would take a harder stance against Putin. Let's hear your reasoning.

What on earth does it have to do with any other party?????

We have a party in power elected with a majority and its doing diddly squat. Its about a leader if Truss Borris and the other bloke cannot get together and agree some sort of action? Then Borris needs to stop crying and get out there. 

[amateur]

10 minutes ago, oowee said:

.........Then Borris needs to stop crying and get out there. 

But, courtesy of the lefty media and Civil Service blob, Boris has been effectively neutralised.

This will bite a few backsides

[Rewulf]

15 hours ago, ordnance said:

I am not questioning if Ukraine is damaging the plant to cause an international reaction because i don't know, I don't have the inside knowledge you do, maybe if you shared your evidence ? If people broke into someone house attacked the owner and their family, would you blame the house owner for the damage to the house that happened while he was trying to protect himself and his family  

I dont have 'inside' information, what I do have is common sense, you tend to not bomb yourself generally, especially when the area you are occupying happens to be a nuclear power station 😆
Whether the wisdom of launching attacks from 'shielded' positions like said NPP is a good tactic, you would have to ask the Ukrainians, as its a tactic theyve used extensively.
As far as your house analogy goes, heres my take on it.
You have evacuated your house and taken your family next door , the burglars are still inside , so you decide to bulldoze your own house to the ground to get them out.
You arent getting your house back, but at least you got rid of the burglars, only problem is , youve damaged next door too.

 

13 hours ago, Mungler said:

I mean, what are they DOING? They might be able to convince many of the world's dingbats and loonies it is Ukraine's fault if it blows, but is that compensation? The winds are unpredictable this time of year and it isn't that far from the Russian border. Is Sauron seriously ready to irradiate his own people and blame it on Ukraine so he has an excuse for pulling out, or, worse, ending the story with nukes?

There seems to be a whole load of assumptions going on in there.
Who says theyre going to blow it up ? Ukraine.
Why would they do it ? They are mindless orcs.
No really, why would they do that ? So they can blame it on Ukraine.
But no one will believe them , theyre mindless orcs ? Err ....

Lets start again, using common sense and reasoning.
Russia holds that entire area south of the Dnieper , has done for 5 months, its happy using the NPP as an artillery base, not good or ethical , but this war is dirty on both sides , and we expect nothing better from Russia.
To the west , Russia has made significant advances west and north of the Dnieper, the Ukrainian counter attack evaporated or never was, the much publicised saboteur attacks on ammo dumps and airfields , are not mortal blows, but hinderances.
Russia doesnt NEED to play distraction games , it doesnt NEED  to shell itself at the power station to justify any actions, when has it ever stopped them before  ?
Ukraine DOES need the distraction, and the intervention of the UN/NATO , its using the same media tactics as it has from day one to try and involve as many countries as possible in its war, a war it cannot possibly fight on its own.
They have asked for direct NATO intervention many times , no fly zones, more heavy equipment, and IMHO , NATO has sailed very close to the line in what it has provided. 
Yet you still deny any idea of a proxy war ?

There were some people from Enerhodor the other day, being interviewed , they had left there homes because of the constant shelling, it was conspicuous that the reporter never asked who had been shelling them , and the people never mentioned the direction of fire. But no one blamed the Russians.
As Ive mentioned, modern radars can pick up direction of artillery and rocket fire, it can even be seen from AWACS , even craters give away direction of fire.
No one except the Ukrainian government are blaming the Russians for this.
In summary , Ukraine are increasingly desperate , and are willing to shell its own power station to create an international crisis, a crisis they hope will bring intervention on their behalf.
More shockingly, it seems they are happy to also deliberately shell their own citizens to achieve similar aims.

3 hours ago, oowee said:

It's ready to blow apparently and now we are told it will be shut down.

At various times the reactors have been shut down while shelling has happened , the design of this station (PWR) , allows all reactors to be turned on and off independently, without danger.

Advantages[edit]

PWR reactors are very stable due to their tendency to produce less power as temperatures increase; this makes the reactor easier to operate from a stability standpoint.

PWR turbine cycle loop is separate from the primary loop, so the water in the secondary loop is not contaminated by radioactive materials.

PWRs can passively scram the reactor in case offsite power is lost to immediately stop the primary nuclear reaction. The control rods are held by electromagnets and fall by gravity when current is lost; full insertion safely shuts down the primary nuclear reaction.

PWR technology is favoured by nations seeking to develop a nuclear navy; the compact reactors fit well in nuclear submarines and other nuclear ships.

PWRs are the most deployed type of reactor globally, allowing for a wide range of suppliers of new plants and parts for existing plants. Due to long experience with their operation they are the closest thing to mature technology that exists in nuclear energy.

PWRs - depending on type - can be fueled with MOX-fuel and/or the Russian Remix Fuel (which has a lower ²³⁹
Pu and a higher ²³⁵
U content than "regular" U/Pu MOX-fuel) allowing for a (partially) closed nuclear fuel cycle

Water is a nontoxic, transparent, chemically unreactive (by comparison with e.g. NaK) coolant that is liquid at room temperature which makes visual inspection and maintenance easier. It is also easy and cheap to obtain unlike heavy water or even nuclear graphite

Compared to reactors operating on natural uranium, PWRs can achieve a relatively high burnup. A typical PWR will exchange a quarter to a third of its fuel load every 18-24 months and have maintenance and inspection, that requires the reactor to be shut down, scheduled for this window. While more uranium ore is consumed per unit of electricity produced than in a natural uranium fueled reactor, the amount of spent fuel is less with the balance being depleted uranium whose radiological danger is lower than that of natural uranium.

The possibilities of it 'blowing' are remote.

 

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Whats it got to do with the Govt? 😂

Do you not think they should be making preparations., lobbying, deciding action re article 5, meeting with other world leaders to decide combined actions and responses? 

What on earth does it have to do with any other party?????

We have a party in power elected with a majority and its doing diddly squat. Its about a leader if Truss Borris and the other bloke cannot get together and agree some sort of action? Then Borris needs to stop crying and get out there. 

Do you not think that the powers have been talking for a long time?

But still, there isn't squat our government can do about a conflict in the Ukraine.

[ordnance]

Quote

I dont have 'inside' information, what I do have is common sense, you tend to not bomb yourself generally, especially when the area you are occupying happens to be a nuclear power station 

Yeah them good old Russians wouldn't do something like that to get leverage on the west they have already got Macron on the phone to Putin begging to get inspectors in. In wars there is misinformation that comes from all sides its all part of of the campaign, for some reason you go out of your way to support Russian claims as true and dismiss Ukraine's claims as false.    

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

Yeah them good old Russians wouldn't do something like that to get leverage on the west

Don't be silly.

The only leverage the west listens to from Russia, comes out of pipelines,  or sits in nuclear warheads. 

 

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

for some reason you go out of your way to support Russian claims as true and dismiss Ukraine's claims as false.

I don't support Russia,  I try to bring balance to the debate. Both sides have made false claims,  that is obvious, but you won't hear MSM calling out Ukraine on any. 

Jesus man,  there are some that still say the ghost of Kiev was real 😂

If you want to hear support for Ukraine,  you only need to switch the news on. 

[Mungler]

The problem with your version of balance is that it’s questionable and further questionable that it can exist under all the circumstances of an invasion based on a madman’s land grab - I think those nato, nazi, threat to mother russia boats have all long sailed.

The tenor of all your posts is anti West / Ukraine, and with no criticism of the madman Putin - where’s the balance to your balance? You say you are impartial but no one here believes you 😀 Why don’t you have a stab a finding something that russia has done wrong in all of this to critique?

Some things don’t need and can’t attract ‘balance’; you got any balance to offer on Hitler murdering 6 million Jews or the 9 million Stalin whacked, for example?

 

[clangerman]

any balance on this thread disappeared long ago despite rewulfs water trough anyone reading it would think it’s a bbc channel 

[Rem260]

22 hours ago, oowee said:

Whats it got to do with the Govt? 😂

Do you not think they should be making preparations., lobbying, deciding action re article 5, meeting with other world leaders to decide combined actions and responses? 

What on earth does it have to do with any other party?????

We have a party in power elected with a majority and its doing diddly squat. Its about a leader if Truss Borris and the other bloke cannot get together and agree some sort of action? Then Borris needs to stop crying and get out there. 

Because you blame the Tories for everything but offer no credible alternative. 

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

Why don’t you have a stab a finding something that russia has done wrong in all of this to critique?

Some things don’t need and can’t attract ‘balance’; you got any balance to offer on Hitler murdering 6 million Jews or the 9 million Stalin whacked, for example?

Not hard to find things Russia has done wrong,  they've caused everything,  but that doesn't mean they weren't provoked or that others want this to continue. 

As for Hitler and Stalin, Stalin rarely gets mentioned,  it's always Hitler killed the Jews.

[ordnance]

12 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Don't be silly.

The only leverage the west listens to from Russia, comes out of pipelines,  or sits in nuclear warheads. 

 

I don't support Russia,  I try to bring balance to the debate. Both sides have made false claims,  that is obvious, but you won't hear MSM calling out Ukraine on any. 

Jesus man,  there are some that still say the ghost of Kiev was real 😂

If you want to hear support for Ukraine,  you only need to switch the news on. 

You are stating the blindingly obvious, both sides make false claims in warfare and have done for centuries like you have come across some revelation. If Ukraine thought they could get a advantage by putting out misinformation and false claims then again obviously they are going to, why would that be a surprise to anyone. 

Quote

If you want to hear support for Ukraine,  you only need to switch the news on.

And if i want to read support for Russia, I only need to read your posts. 

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

The problem with your version of balance is that it’s questionable and further questionable that it can exist under all the circumstances of an invasion based on a madman’s land grab - I think those nato, nazi, threat to mother russia boats have all long sailed.

Of course its questionable,  I want you to question it,  you might then find answers that explain how it all happened,  and how it might be resolved.  Sticking with the rather boring 'mad Putin's land grab' isn't going to fix anything. 

If you really think he's mad,  we're screwed,  and if you really think it's a land grab,  why didn't he do it in 2014,  when it would have been effortless? 

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

The tenor of all your posts is anti West / Ukraine, and with no criticism of the madman Putin - where’s the balance to your balance? You say you are impartial but no one here believes you 😀 Why don’t you have a stab a finding something that russia has done wrong in all of this to critique?

I'm not anti West, anti Ukraine or anti Russia,  I'm anti BS,  and if I hear it,  I'll call it,  everything that Russia does gets called out for a lie,  and a lot of it is,  but there's a queue of people denouncing Russia. 

When Ukraine lies... Silence. 

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

Some things don’t need and can’t attract ‘balance’; you got any balance to offer on Hitler murdering 6 million Jews or the 9 million Stalin whacked, for example?

Come on!  You said you can't use 'old'  events for comparison 😂

[ordnance]

Quote

As for Hitler and Stalin, Stalin rarely gets mentioned,  it's always Hitler killed the Jews.

Stalin was busy exterminating Ukraine's.    

Holodomor | Holocaust and Genocide Studies

In 1932 and 1933, millions of Ukrainians were killed in the Holodomor, a man-made famine engineered by the Soviet government of Joseph Stalin.

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, ordnance said:

You are stating the blindingly obvious, both sides make false claims in warfare and have done for centuries like you have come across some revelation. If Ukraine thought they could get a advantage by putting out misinformation and false claims then again obviously they are going to, why would that be a surprise to anyone. 

And if i want to read support for Russia, I only need to read your posts. 

Apart from the waffle,  you aren't actually disagreeing with me are you? 

[ordnance]

2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Apart from the waffle,  you aren't actually disagreeing with me are you? 

The problem is you post things as factual, that Ukraine has or hasn't done with no evidence to back it up,  that is not the same as me stating that both sides make false claims in warfare. You say it as if you have some insight that others don't, when as I said you are stating the blindingly obvious something a 10 year old could figure out. 

[mchughcb]

On 24/02/2022 at 15:28, Dave-G said:

Its on, explosions in Kyiv and landings from the Black Sea.

This is minutes after it was reported on news including RT that there were no plans to enter Ukraine.

 

Nobody telegraphs a land invasion. Naval invasion is a lot harder to conceal.

 

Slava cocaine.

 

[Rewulf]

29 minutes ago, ordnance said:

The problem is you post things as factual

Bizzare statement,  the only way you truly know anything to be factual, is if you you witness it with your own eyes. 

Where have I implied anything I've said is factual? 

These are my opinions,  based on multiple news sources, some technical and historical data, digested and formed,  using knowledge and common sense,  nothing more. 

The fact you don't agree with them doesn't make me wrong,  it doesn't make your opinion wrong either. 

We differ,  that is all. 

[mchughcb]

If the separatists hold a referendum and decide to form a republic I say let them. Nobody gave a poop in the west after the Pro-Russian elected president was ousted in a coupe. Ukraine has had cheap energy for a long time and that symbiotic relationship with Russia has been going on for a long time. Nobody gave a poop to honour the Minsk agreement II in 2015.

This is the results of people who don't take threats very serious with very serious people. You don't mess around with them. Just like Saddam and the Taliban don't mess around with the USA.

 

It is Europe that is heading to winter and many will probably die with no heating as a result of their own sanctions, supporting a non EU, non NATO country with NATO weapons and training. The Russians have enough gas to keep everybody warm. Energy costs increasing coming out of covid has pushed inflation to over 10%.

Three cheers for Greta Thunberg. Hip Hip Hooray.

All that need to be agreed before, during and after the invasion and it would be over.

1. Recognise Crimea (isn't part of Ukraine)

2. Recognise Donbass (isn't part of Ukraine)

3. Declare neutrality (not too hard)

4. De- Nazify (well the Azov Battalian (largest army nazi supporters) surrendered at Mariupol so you can probably tick that one off)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mungler]

6 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Of course its questionable,  I want you to question it,  you might then find answers that explain how it all happened,  and how it might be resolved.  Sticking with the rather boring 'mad Putin's land grab' isn't going to fix anything. 

If you really think he's mad,  we're screwed,  and if you really think it's a land grab,  why didn't he do it in 2014,  when it would have been effortless? 

I'm not anti West, anti Ukraine or anti Russia,  I'm anti BS,  and if I hear it,  I'll call it,  everything that Russia does gets called out for a lie,  and a lot of it is,  but there's a queue of people denouncing Russia. 

When Ukraine lies... Silence. 

Come on!  You said you can't use 'old'  events for comparison 😂

1. You should try questioning some of the Russian propaganda and decisions in this.
 

2. He is mad or at best poorly advised / informed. It’s a consequence of his isolation and love of Peter the Great. The fact that you cant conceive either of these as possibilities (or indeed that the invasion of the Ukraine by Russia as not one of the best ideas or plans yet) belies your partisan status - your choice but for all your crowing about how we need to open our eye to all that is wrong with Ukraine and Zelensky you don’t, can’t or won’t for Russia or Putin.
 

3. For someone who says he’s anti BS you willing accept Russian BS in all its forms. 
 

4. I wasn’t using an old event as comparison. I am making the point that some actions can’t be justified, explained or provided with any balance or mitigation. 

[Stonepark]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

1. You should try questioning some of the Russian propaganda and decisions in this.
 

2. He is mad or at best poorly advised / informed. It’s a consequence of his isolation and love of Peter the Great. The fact that you cant conceive either of these as possibilities (or indeed that the invasion of the Ukraine by Russia as not one of the best ideas or plans yet) belies your partisan status - your choice but for all your crowing about how we need to open our eye to all that is wrong with Ukraine and Zelensky you don’t, can’t or won’t for Russia or Putin.
 

3. For someone who says he’s anti BS you willing accept Russian BS in all its forms. 
 

4. I wasn’t using an old event as comparison. I am making the point that some actions can’t be justified, explained or provided with any balance or mitigation. 

Just a few very minor changes.....

1. You should try questioning some of the Ukrainian propaganda and decisions in this.
 

2. Zelensky is mad or at best poorly advised / informed. It’s a consequence of his isolation and love of Nazism. The fact that you cant conceive either of these as possibilities (or indeed that the invasion of the Donbass by Ukraine as not one of the best ideas or plans yet) belies your partisan status - your choice but for all your crowing about how we need to open our eye to all that is wrong with Russia and Putin you don’t, can’t or won’t for Ukraine or Zelensky.
 

3. For someone who says he’s anti BS you willing to accept Ukranian BS in all its forms. 

 

Ukraine as a country has not existed since the illegal coup in 2014 as it has not had an fully elected democratic government since then, the seceded areas (i.e. Donbass and Crimea) are no longer in Ukraine and until the current government of the remaining rump state accepts this (including Zelensky), then Russia will keep going.

 

Unfortunately for Zelensky to survive he has to spout the reintegration of the seceded areas and all the other BS, otherwise he risks losing his support and being replaced (possibly very unceremoniously), however given by that almost 6 months have passed, Russia is going to be getting impatient and given Zelensky appears to be starting terrorist methods, assassination, bio weapons etc, I suspect at some point very soon Zelensky and his high heidjans will be the no1 target.

 

[ordnance]

Quote

Ukraine as a country has not existed since the illegal coup in 2014 as it has not had an fully elected democratic government since then.

How do you figure that out, it suddenly stopped being a country 

 

Quote

Zelensky appears to be starting terrorist methods, assassination, bio weapons etc, 

What bio weapons ?

Quote

Zelensky is mad or at best poorly advised / informed. It’s a consequence of his isolation and love of Nazism.

Evidence of Zelenskys love of Nazism ? what you posted looks like a rant with nothing to back it up. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by ordnance

[oowee]

Zelensky  isolation and love of Nazism 🤪

6 minutes ago, ordnance said:

How do you figure that out, it suddenly stopped being a country 

 

What bio weapons ?

Evidence of Zelenskys love of Nazism ? what you posted looks like a rant with nothing to back it up. 

🤪

[Mungler]

37 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Just a few very minor changes.....

1. You should try questioning some of the Ukrainian propaganda and decisions in this.
 

2. Zelensky is mad or at best poorly advised / informed. It’s a consequence of his isolation and love of Nazism. The fact that you cant conceive either of these as possibilities (or indeed that the invasion of the Donbass by Ukraine as not one of the best ideas or plans yet) belies your partisan status - your choice but for all your crowing about how we need to open our eye to all that is wrong with Russia and Putin you don’t, can’t or won’t for Ukraine or Zelensky.
 

3. For someone who says he’s anti BS you willing to accept Ukranian BS in all its forms. 

 

Ukraine as a country has not existed since the illegal coup in 2014 as it has not had an fully elected democratic government since then, the seceded areas (i.e. Donbass and Crimea) are no longer in Ukraine and until the current government of the remaining rump state accepts this (including Zelensky), then Russia will keep going.

 

Unfortunately for Zelensky to survive he has to spout the reintegration of the seceded areas and all the other BS, otherwise he risks losing his support and being replaced (possibly very unceremoniously), however given by that almost 6 months have passed, Russia is going to be getting impatient and given Zelensky appears to be starting terrorist methods, assassination, bio weapons etc, I suspect at some point very soon Zelensky and his high heidjans will be the no1 target.

 

You’re proper bonkers 😆😆