EJ Churchill regal boxlock sxs

[Waterdog]

Hi all I’ve a chance to buy one of these beautiful guns but having difficulty finding information on the net , would be grateful for any help thanks 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

https://www.google.com/search?q=EJ+Churchill+regal+boxlock&rlz=1C1CHBD_en-GBGB801GB801&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[wymberley]

After WW2 because of the implications of the expression, 'utility' brought to our shores by the American servicemen, the Churchill shotgun of that name was changed to, 'Regal'. I have owned both 'names' in XXV format. I have a copy of, 'The House Of Churchill' by Masters so given the serial number can date the one you're after.

[enfieldspares]

Churchill had, post Robert Churchill, a variety of owners including it is said at one stage Sam Cummings below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Cummings

It then became through various mergers and etc. Churchill, Atkin, Grant and Lang which I remember back in the day when their premises were across from St. James's Palace over the road from William Evans. This I think was when they were part of the same group that owned Hardy the fishing tackle maker. Harris and Sheldon AFAIR. Who also owned Webley & Scott. Which is a round the houses way of saying that some later Churchill guns will (and I'm happy to corrected) basically be Webley made guns and in some cases Webley 700 guns.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lIR7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT209&lpg=PT209&dq=harris+and+sheldon+webley&source=bl&ots=VQ71HrzA6K&sig=ACfU3U3f2Lpzua6mI-AVATmsk3tz7izuhw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwity4aJ8Z32AhWZFMAKHeg7BHgQ6AF6BAg1EAM#v=onepage&q=harris and sheldon webley&f=false

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Best_Guns/lIR7AwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=harris+and+sheldon+churchill&pg=PT135&printsec=frontcover

Edited February 26, 2022 by enfieldspares

[JohnfromUK]

I think most (if not all) Churchill boxlocks were Birmingham made (for Churchill).

 

[benbobailey]

35 minutes ago, Waterdog said:

Hi all I’ve a chance to buy one of these beautiful guns but having difficulty finding information on the net , would be grateful for any help thanks 

Hello, is it an E J Churchill or Churchill gunmakers? Does it have the scroll back action?

[Waterdog]

Haven’t looked that closely but been told it’s EJ Churchill and has Regal engraved underneath 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

17 minutes ago, Waterdog said:

Haven’t looked that closely but been told it’s EJ Churchill and has Regal engraved underneath 

How much is it?  That will give us a clue!

[Waterdog]

£2800

[enfieldspares]

Way, way, way over the top. Gosh even with a Churchill "VC" case these now are maybe £1000 to £1200 tops at auction. It is IMHO even without seeing it TWICE what it is worth in today's market now that BASC have railroaded their voluntary lead ban. There's already three Churchill boxlock in the current part-catalogue Holt's have so far put up online. Finally FWIW I consider the Easy Opener Untility the better value having handled one may years ago.

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=A0322+++1752+&refno=++174426&saletype=

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=A0322+++1757+&refno=++178368&saletype=

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=A0322+++1757+&refno=++178368&saletype=

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by enfieldspares

[Waterdog]

Thought it was a bit steep myself ,it’s a 28in     Don’t think that should make that much difference same dealer also has webley &scott 25in for£950 

[wymberley]

23 minutes ago, Waterdog said:

Thought it was a bit steep myself ,it’s a 28in     Don’t think that should make that much difference same dealer also has webley &scott 25in for£950 

Now you're talking! My Utility was bog standard from '32. The regal (same model different name) from '45 was made for a one armed man (I spoke to his son a few years ago and the old boy was still alive) and was an easy opener with twin triggers - pull which ever one you need choke-wise and then pull the same one again for the 2nd barrel. The top lever was shortened and the safety catch moved forward - all so you didn't have to change your grip. They were fast, very fast but both were too small in the hand for me so I sold them. The Webley and Scott version which I now have is in my opinion what the Churchill should have been- - for me anyway. For a good gun that is a very reasonable price. Mine is from '62, in truly superb condition with all colour and cased. It cost me £1450 20 month ago. I'm as sick as a parrot as now I have what I've always wanted the bloody arthritis forces me to go single trigger and I'm having to sell it.

Edited February 26, 2022 by wymberley

[Waterdog]

Thanks for the help boys , will go back to the dealer in Tuesday an see if I can get some serial numbers . I liked the Churchill handled really well tempted but not at that price

[enfieldspares]

If it's a twenty-eight inch then, again in my opinion, it offers NOTHING that can't be done cheaper from just as reputable makers. Indeed that £2800 is way past any and all sidelock Cogswell prices. You are at £2800 into fully engraved Lang sidelock money. Or any variation on Hussey or Harrison and Hussey. And Lang was a good maker....Webley's "up market" London outlet as, at one time Webley owned Lang.

Edited February 26, 2022 by enfieldspares

[welshwarrior]

Is it a modern Churchill Regal or and old one?

Having worked for Churchill’s I maybe able to offer abit more info if you want to PM me. 

[Waterdog]

I think it’s an old one , both guns belonged to the same guy , will get more details on Tuesday and will pm you thanks

[Waterdog]

On 26/02/2022 at 17:22, enfieldspares said:

Churchill had, post Robert Churchill, a variety of owners including it is said at one stage Sam Cummings below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Cummings

It then became through various mergers and etc. Churchill, Atkin, Grant and Lang which I remember back in the day when their premises were across from St. James's Palace over the road from William Evans. This I think was when they were part of the same group that owned Hardy the fishing tackle maker. Harris and Sheldon AFAIR. Who also owned Webley & Scott. Which is a round the houses way of saying that some later Churchill guns will (and I'm happy to corrected) basically be Webley made guns and in some cases Webley 700 guns.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lIR7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT209&lpg=PT209&dq=harris+and+sheldon+webley&source=bl&ots=VQ71HrzA6K&sig=ACfU3U3f2Lpzua6mI-AVATmsk3tz7izuhw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwity4aJ8Z32AhWZFMAKHeg7BHgQ6AF6BAg1EAM#v=onepage&q=harris and sheldon webley&f=false

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Best_Guns/lIR7AwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=harris+and+sheldon+churchill&pg=PT135&printsec=frontcover

Thanks for the help just ordered it

[Gunman]

On 26/02/2022 at 17:27, JohnfromUK said:

I think most (if not all) Churchill boxlocks were Birmingham made (for Churchill).

 

A lot of post war Churchill boxlocks were made by Wrights in Bath St who were eventually taken over by Churchill .

[Waterdog]

Think this might be it

[Westley]

I would urge you to try the gun if possible. I was unable to shoot a 25" barrel gun. Strange but Holts shotgun man says the same thing. You need to develop a new style of shooting to use it well.

[London Best]

8 minutes ago, Westley said:

I would urge you to try the gun if possible. I was unable to shoot a 25" barrel gun. Strange but Holts shotgun man says the same thing. You need to develop a new style of shooting to use it well.

How very odd!

I have never noticed the length of barrels make any difference to how I shoot. 
In fact, I can’t tell any difference at all between different barrel lengths.

[JohnfromUK]

11 minutes ago, Westley said:

I would urge you to try the gun if possible. I was unable to shoot a 25" barrel gun. Strange but Holts shotgun man says the same thing. You need to develop a new style of shooting to use it well.

Yesterdays post at 19:27 says 28".

1 minute ago, London Best said:

I can’t tell any difference at all between different barrel lengths.

I can.  For me, significantly shorter than 28" always seem to suffer upwards 'flip'.  28 seems to suit me better than 30, though I can happily use either.

[Westley]

Just now, London Best said:

How very odd!

I have never noticed the length of barrels make any difference to how I shoot. 
In fact, I can’t tell any difference at all between different barrel lengths.

I am not alone on this one, I have known several people who have bought 25" guns and not had them for long. A lot were AyA's which all had standard stock measurements, so it was not just a 'fit' issue. I know someone who shoots a Churchill. He is to Churchill,  the same as i am to Westley Richards. He will not part with his Churchill. It has been fitted by makers, but he still struggles with it  ?

[London Best]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

 

I can.  For me, significantly shorter than 28" always seem to suffer upwards 'flip'.  28 seems to suit me better than 30, though I can happily use either.

Surely, you must be actually looking at the barrels to notice that?

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, London Best said:

Surely, you must be actually looking at the barrels to notice that?

No - felt both in the left hand and cheek - but the 'flip' probably does draw the eye as a sudden movement.  I don't have a shorter barrel than 27" (think that's what it is), but when I have used borrowed 25" - I do notice it.  It is more a significant 'lift' in the recoil.