Another child killed in UK

[enfieldspares]

Seems to me that this BULLY XL (an American breed) has been brought into the UK specifically to circumvent the laws against the pitbull. We cannot keep adding breed x or breed y to the old Dangerous Dogs Act but we can perhaps make it more difficult for idiots to own any dog. And that must be through requiring for all dogs mandatory insurance via a £100 flat fee that is verified by a chip in the animal. 

[Agriv8]

49 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

Seems to me that this BULLY XL (an American breed) has been brought into the UK specifically to circumvent the laws against the pitbull. We cannot keep adding breed x or breed y to the old Dangerous Dogs Act but we can perhaps make it more difficult for idiots to own any dog. And that must be through requiring for all dogs mandatory insurance via a £100 flat fee that is verified by a chip in the animal. 

Going to say it - why the flipping heck would anyone think that was a safe dog breed regardless of what’s on the uk banned dogs list .

Add to that having a young un in the house . Any dog is a potential killer but ……………

so so sad 

Agriv8 

[Agriv8]

17 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

And what specific breeds carry a genetic risk of aggression? 

I'll answer that one for you, they all do, all dogs are related to the wolf! 

Breed specific legislation doesn't work, the problem lies with people and unless some legislation is created that tackles the route cause, we won't see a reduction in dog attacks. 

Yes you are correct but most breeds have had aggression bread out certain dogs have it bred in ! To protect 
 

police use spaniels rather than pit bulls as sniffer  dogs - I wander why 

police use Alsatian as stop and search dogs - again why ?

labradors make fantastic peg dog   - why ?

Yes they are all related to a wolf but my spaniel has only ever once growled at my youngest child once - She may have only been playing who knows ! but picked up by me and firmly placed on her bed with my grisly voice on she knows that’s not allowed ! 

The next 3 evenings the child that was growled at gave my dog her tea - and took her bowel while half full and made her sit until he told her she could finish.

I repeat I would leave no dog with a baby but a bully xl I’d be not be happy if I had one living next door !

 

[12gauge82]

On 26/03/2022 at 07:06, WalkedUp said:

Only an untrained dog would show any aggression in any of those circumstances.

 

I didn't bother reading any further. 

You are completely, totally and utterly clueless, I pitty any dog owned by you. Or anyones dog that takes training advice from you. 

You see any dog that isn't a submissive robot as broken and would probably have it killed.

[WalkedUp]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

You see any dog that isn't a submissive robot as broken and would probably have it killed.

Would certainly have any dog that showed aggression killed. I would never expect submission. A dog is not submissive to a chicken or lamb to know not to touch it. It is trained. You seem to be unable to understand that: a dog can actually be trained, some breeds of dogs are inherently more dangerous to people than others. 

I am still unconvinced that you own a dog, or have ever worked a dog, but if you do then you would be more than welcome to come out with me and the dogs.

Edited March 27, 2022 by WalkedUp

[12gauge82]

14 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Would certainly have any dog that showed aggression killed. I would never expect submission. A dog is not submissive to a chicken or lamb to know not to touch it. It is trained. You seem to be unable to understand that: a dog can actually be trained, some breeds of dogs are inherently more dangerous to people than others. 

I am still unconvinced that you own a dog, or have ever worked a dog, but if you do then you would be more than welcome to come out with me and the dogs.

I spend 24hrs a day 365 days a year working and training dogs. 

In my professional opinion, you are worse than clueless! 

I don't need to see your dogs to know by what you write that you lack the very basic fundamentals of how dogs think and learn. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by 12gauge82

[WalkedUp]

38 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I spend 24hrs a day 365 days a year working and training dogs. 

That patently is not true.

[12gauge82]

Just now, WalkedUp said:

That patently is not true.

As I said, clueless! 

[armsid]

I find round here that staffies are seen as status symbols for the dealers and can be as nasty as their owners out of control do not respect any one and the trend is not recinding you can put as much legislation in place as you want it will make no difference until people are trained to look after dogs and their children as well We will always have out of control dogs and out of control parents of out of control kids and so it goes on I  do not know the answer but until either liability insurance is compulsory and the dogs keepers /owners are penalised properly (this is usually with house insurance ) but how would you enforce this? 

[JohnfromUK]

13 minutes ago, armsid said:

I do not know the answer

Nor do I, but I don't believe there is any 'easy' answer.

13 minutes ago, armsid said:

but how would you enforce this?

Indeed.  We live now where there are a great many rules, the majority of which aren't really enforced and are only followed by the 'good citizens' who probably would have followed the requirement anyway without any need for enforcement.  As an example, we currently have compulsory third party motor insurance, but according to what one reads, there are around a MILLION uninsured drivers.  Cars are (in theory anyway) much easier to trace ownership etc than dogs as they are all registered and visibly numbered.

We also allegedly have sections of the community who are basically 'outside the law' and the law isn't prepared/able/empowered to tackle this.

No one wants a Police state, but also any civilised society needs to have rules that are respected and followed by (virtually) all - and those who don't need to face penalties - but realistically, these days the chances of being penalised are tiny (in 2021 the burglary solve rate said to be just over 5% solved).  We currently live in a civilisation where crime does pay.

Edited March 27, 2022 by JohnfromUK

[12gauge82]

As the above posters have said, it's not an easy or quick fix otherwise it'd be solved by now, what right minded person would want to see a child killed. 

[bigbird]

I don’t care who you are, whether you’re experienced with dogs or clueless, you don’t take on a dog of that sort of breed (or any!) and put it or a young child or indeed any child or person in a situation where this could happen.

That said my deepest sympathies are with the child, her family and friends and the police who have had to deal with this dreadful tragedy.

Edited March 27, 2022 by bigbird

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

I don’t care who you are, whether you’re experienced with dogs or clueless, you don’t take on a dog of that sort of breed (or any!) and put it or a young child or indeed any child or person in a situation where this could happen.

That said my deepest sympathies are with the child, her family and friends and the police who have had to deal with this dreadful tragedy.

I couldn't agree more. 

[WalkedUp]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-60907487

4 children in a matter of weeks 

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-60907487

4 children in a matter of weeks 

Absolutely heart breaking, but what's the answer? 

 

[WalkedUp]

I would start with enforcement of criminal responsibility for the behaviour of one’s animals. Better mechanisms to report dangerous or out of control animals. Proper sentences for those who’s dogs do harm. Destruction of some breeds.

[12gauge82]

8 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

I would start with enforcement of criminal responsibility for the behaviour of one’s animals. Better mechanisms to report dangerous or out of control animals. Proper sentences for those who’s dogs do harm. Destruction of some breeds.

All the things you've listed are already in force and unfortunately are rather ineffective at preventing these types of tragedy, the most ineffective of all the policy's is breed specific legislation. For instance, the dog breeds in the cases you highlighted on this thread are probably not illegal, a husky is certainly not a banned breed and most likely a bully Xl probably doesn't have apt traits either. 

Ban whatever breed of dog you like and the idiots will circumvent the law by either illegal breeding, crossing different breeds, or simply tainting dogs that are not currently banned. 

In short, your ideas, in my opinion, would have very little effect as it, is as usaul it is almost always people and not the dogs who are at fault. 

[WalkedUp]

Sadly I have to agree. 

[JohnfromUK]

Very sadly another death following an incident a few days ago;  https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/20031885.egdon-dog-attack-toddler-2-dies-bitten-worcestershire/

[joejoe]

It was earlier this month but I was walking with my Labrador and a bullmastiff came charging out of a house while the old lady who lives there was taking her bin out. Down the driveway and pinned my Labrador to the ground and was biting him, my dog was squealing there was nothing he could do to get away. 
 

I end up kicking the dog in the ribs, head and shoulder a until it got off him and as it was been dragged in my the old couple. Their son who was visiting and the owner of the bullmastiff came out and kicked off at me trying to throw a punch and swearing as I kicked he dog. 

[Rob85]

18 minutes ago, joejoe said:

It was earlier this month but I was walking with my Labrador and a bullmastiff came charging out of a house while the old lady who lives there was taking her bin out. Down the driveway and pinned my Labrador to the ground and was biting him, my dog was squealing there was nothing he could do to get away. 
 

I end up kicking the dog in the ribs, head and shoulder a until it got off him and as it was been dragged in my the old couple. Their son who was visiting and the owner of the bullmastiff came out and kicked off at me trying to throw a punch and swearing as I kicked he dog. 

Should have kicked the son in the ribs, head and shoulder. Maybe the only way to instill sense in him

[joejoe]

More than tempted too.

It was only because it was raining I didn’t have my 17 month old son with me. 

[12gauge82]

55 minutes ago, joejoe said:

It was earlier this month but I was walking with my Labrador and a bullmastiff came charging out of a house while the old lady who lives there was taking her bin out. Down the driveway and pinned my Labrador to the ground and was biting him, my dog was squealing there was nothing he could do to get away. 
 

I end up kicking the dog in the ribs, head and shoulder a until it got off him and as it was been dragged in my the old couple. Their son who was visiting and the owner of the bullmastiff came out and kicked off at me trying to throw a punch and swearing as I kicked he dog. 

I would suggest the attitude of the son tells you everything you need to know about the people who (I use the word with a pinch of salt) "trained" the dog. 

I hope you and your lab are okay. 

12 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

Sadly I have to agree. 

I'm genuinely glad we've managed to find some common ground 

[joejoe]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

I hope you and your lab are okay. 

He was a bit shaken up but nothing a bit of roast chicken did help fix. 

[holloway]

Just checked out the Wikipedia page on dog attack fatalities  it makes very grim reading ,sad to say an awful lot could have been prevented by simple common sense, interesting to note the number of people killed by dogs whilst having an epileptic fit.