The end of lead - Extract from the RSPB and WWT letter - via the BASC website

[clangerman]

end of the day there will be a vote on shooting and those trying to lump us all in the same boat because THEY don’t have the legitimate reason of pest control will be banned so fast their eyes will water! 

[Weihrauch17]

Just now, clangerman said:

end of the day there will be a vote on shooting and those trying to lump us all in the same boat because THEY don’t have the legitimate reason of pest control will be banned so fast their eyes will water! 

No doubt, death by a 1000 cuts coming quicker than ever.

[Scully]

35 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

I don't get your point, it's about enjoying the whole day not killing something.  Friendships, Food, dogs working, excercise the crack etc etc.  As opposed to 8 or 9 guns standing on a Peg and killing 300 birds a day.  Up until last year our shoot over the last 23 years probably averaged 15 - 20 birds a day for 8 or 9 guns, hardly killing for fun!

Of course it’s about enjoying the day in its entirety; I’m a member of a small rough shoot where our biggest bag will be in the high teens (?) and a small syndicate where our biggest bag is around the 40 mark. We gather for the craic, to see old friends again, to work our dogs and all that that sort of day entails, including standing at a peg and shooting birds driven towards us. We do it for leisure, pleasure, enjoyment or for want if another word, fun, and killing birds is part of it. You can’t separate the one from the other. You can’t enjoy the rest of it and dislike the shooting, the suggestion is ridiculous! If you aren’t enjoying it then stop doing it! 🤷‍♂️
I also stand one beat one on beaters day on a very big commercial shoot, where my sole purpose for being there is to shoot birds. The buzz is phenomenal. 
I also get a real buzz from ferreting rabbits to guns, and decoying pigeons and corvids, the more the better. To me it is all exciting and immensely enjoyable.
Like all leisure pursuits of whatever sort, if I wasn't having fun I wouldn’t do it, and neither would you. 

[clangerman]

Just now, Weihrauch17 said:

No doubt, death by a 1000 cuts coming quicker than ever.

i can’t wait for a vote thanks to those trying to save their own necks at my expense 

[alic]

10 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

For exactly the reasons I have stated!  The likes of you who shoot on Commercial Shoots will be the end of shooting not the saviour.  Not personal BTW and my views are only my own, I may be wrong.

The likes of me, I said 1000 birds in Africa , pigeons and pest control. At best I could stretch to a 200 bird in the uk after that I would rather spend the money on something else. So not really a commercial shoot as you describe although I do pay for the pleasure 

[Scully]

11 minutes ago, clangerman said:

end of the day there will be a vote on shooting and those trying to lump us all in the same boat because THEY don’t have the legitimate reason of pest control will be banned so fast their eyes will water! 

😂 So tell us, why do you pay to carry out pest control on land you don’t own over crops which aren’t yours? 

[Weihrauch17]

4 minutes ago, Scully said:

😂 So tell us, why do you pay to carry out pest control on land you don’t own over crops which aren’t yours? 

I don't.

[clangerman]

6 minutes ago, Scully said:

😂 So tell us, why do you pay to carry out pest control on land you don’t own over crops which aren’t yours? 

with picking up the expense of sitting in mud all winter last thing I will ever do is pay farmers 

[Scully]

Just now, Weihrauch17 said:

I don't.

I didn’t ask you. 

[Scully]

1 minute ago, clangerman said:

with picking up the expense of sitting in mud all winter last thing I will ever do is pay farmers 

🤔 You don’t have to pay farmers to pay for your shooting.
I’m assuming you paid for a gun, paid for a license for that gun, buy ammunition, paid for a bit of decoying kit, fuel to get there? 
So tell us, why do you pay for all that gear to shoot birds on land you don’t own over crops which aren’t yours? 

[Weihrauch17]

19 minutes ago, Scully said:

Of course it’s about enjoying the day in its entirety; I’m a member of a small rough shoot where our biggest bag will be in the high teens (?) and a small syndicate where our biggest bag is around the 40 mark. We gather for the craic, to see old friends again, to work our dogs and all that that sort of day entails, including standing at a peg and shooting birds driven towards us. We do it for leisure, pleasure, enjoyment or for want if another word, fun, and killing birds is part of it. You can’t separate the one from the other. You can’t enjoy the rest of it and dislike the shooting, the suggestion is ridiculous! If you aren’t enjoying it then stop doing it! 🤷‍♂️
I also stand one beat one on beaters day on a very big commercial shoot, where my sole purpose for being there is to shoot birds. The buzz is phenomenal. 
I also get a real buzz from ferreting rabbits to guns, and decoying pigeons and corvids, the more the better. To me it is all exciting and immensely enjoyable.
Like all leisure pursuits of whatever sort, if I wasn't having fun I wouldn’t do it, and neither would you. 

I didn't say I disliked shooting. You suggest I shoot because I enjoy killing things and that is wrong, if that was true we would keep the birds in the pen and shoot them inside lets not waste any!

Edited April 6, 2022 by Weihrauch17

[Scully]

Just now, Weihrauch17 said:

I didn't say I disliked shooting. You suggest I shoot because I enjoy killing things, if that was true we would keep the birds in the pen and shoot them inside lets not waste any!

Well you certainly don’t dislike killing things! 
If you shot them in the pen you wouldn’t get the walk you enjoy, or get to see your dogs work, or have the craic! 🤷‍♂️
Luke I said, you can’t separate the two. 

[Weihrauch17]

Who's Luke?  Sick of arguing with you. You are obviously a big fan of Commercial shoots, I have always detested them.  Not much more to debate.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Weihrauch17

[clangerman]

36 minutes ago, Scully said:

🤔 You don’t have to pay farmers to pay for your shooting.
I’m assuming you paid for a gun, paid for a license for that gun, buy ammunition, paid for a bit of decoying kit, fuel to get there? 
So tell us, why do you pay for all that gear to shoot birds on land you don’t own over crops which aren’t yours? 

simple reason when on the legitimate reason to shoot pige for pest control they are not obliging enough to land close enough for a stick so purchase of kit is unfortunately essential but all donations to the clanger kit fund are welcome if you want to pay for a slab! 

[Scully]

10 hours ago, clangerman said:

simple reason when on the legitimate reason to shoot pige for pest control they are not obliging enough to land close enough for a stick so purchase of kit is unfortunately essential but all donations to the clanger kit fund are welcome if you want to pay for a slab! 

There you go! You pay for gear to attract pigeons close enough to kill, and are willing to ‘sit in the mud all winter’  to do it in a field you don’t own to protect crops that aren’t yours! Brilliant! 😂 

[Scully]

15 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Who's Luke?  Sick of arguing with you. You are obviously a big fan of Commercial shoots, I have always detested them.  Not much more to debate.

Luke was a typo, or possibly who you thought you were replying to with your ‘I don’t’ comment! And that’s the extent of your debate is it, picking up on a typo? Like Luke said, if you’re not having fun, stop doing it. 🙂

I’m a big fan of ALL shooting. I’m a shooter, it’s what I do. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Scully

[udderlyoffroad]

United we stand, divided we will definitely fall.

If you lot can't see past your own prejudices because one of us engages in the 'wrong' form of shooting, then we haven't a hope.

As for the  "I'm alright Jack" attitude of "legitimate reason to shoot pige for pest control" (sic), you haven't thought that one through either, that'll be banned so fast your ***** will  bleed, like it was previously....

[London Best]

11 hours ago, Scully said:

The buzz is phenomenal. 
 

That sums it up nicely.

Of course shooting is sport.  Many people don’t know the difference between sports and GAMES such as rugby, cricket and football.

[udderlyoffroad]

1 minute ago, London Best said:

Of course shooting is sport.  Many people don’t know the difference between sports and GAMES such as rugby, cricket and football.

Like gay, the word has changed its meaning in the general public's mind over the years.  Not a campaign we need to start.  Let's concentrate on the actual problems shooting faces.

[clangerman]

59 minutes ago, Scully said:

There you go! You pay for gear to attract pigeons close enough to kill, and are willing to ‘sit in the mud all winter’  to do it in a field you don’t own to protect crops that aren’t yours! Brilliant! 😂 

laugh while you can pigeon shooting has billion pound farm and food industries behind it roll on the vote! 

[Fellside]

2 minutes ago, clangerman said:

laugh while you can pigeon shooting has billion pound farm and food industries behind it roll on the vote! 

What vote? Have I missed something? Remember what happened last time the public were asked to vote on an issue many new little about (?!). I don’t think there’s much political appetite for repeating that manoeuvre. 

[udderlyoffroad]

15 minutes ago, clangerman said:

laugh while you can pigeon shooting has billion pound farm and food industries behind it roll on the vote! 

That the government are happy to shaft on a regular basis!

Once again, they stopped all pest control, including your beloved 'pige' because a QUANGO's lawyers were scared of WJ's lawfare.

 

2 minutes ago, Fellside said:

What vote? Have I missed something? Remember what happened last time the public were asked to vote on an issue many new little about (?!).

I believe he was referring to a parliamentary vote rather than a referendum

[Fellside]

1 minute ago, udderlyoffroad said:

That the government are happy to shaft on a regular basis!

Once again, they stopped all pest control, including your beloved 'pige' because a QUANGO's lawyers were scared of WJ's lawfare.

 

I believe he was referring to a parliamentary vote rather than a referendum

When and how?

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

United we stand, divided we will definitely fall.

If you lot can't see past your own prejudices because one of us engages in the 'wrong' form of shooting, then we haven't a hope.

Spot on 

 

27 minutes ago, Fellside said:

When and how?

I believe it refers to a parliamentary motion/vote on banning lead for live quarry.

 

[Fellside]

32 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Spot on 

 

I believe it refers to a parliamentary motion/vote on banning lead for live quarry.

 

I respectfully disagree. 

Read correctly (and in context) it promoted a vote to ban shooting - due to a resentful attitude towards pheasant shoots. Hence my provocative questioning. 

Did a shot pheasant once fall on his head from a very great height…..?!