JohnfromUK Posted April 21, 2022 Report Share Posted April 21, 2022 Just now, Fellside said: you learn something new every day as they say. In fact - if you look at the two pictures posted by @enfieldspares above - the upper is not stocked to the fences - whereas the lower is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted April 21, 2022 Report Share Posted April 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: In fact - if you look at the two pictures posted by @enfieldspares above - the upper is not stocked to the fences - whereas the lower is. Thank you - I now feel slightly more educated than before. These side by sides involve a whole different language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 (edited) Have to strongly disagree about Westley Richards boxlock guns. I think that the dolls head and sliding top bolt is synonymous with Westleys, along with the extra gape upon opening the gun, to facilitate ease of loading or extracting unfired cartridges. The way that the guns close is almost like a pocket watch and it was this that attracted me to them when loading for a guy with a pair, back in 1970's. By 1978, I owned one, so I suppose I am a touch biased ! 😁 Edited April 22, 2022 by Westley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 Westley Richards stuff is of the very highest quality. A properly fitted doll’s head is a beautiful piece of work, a poorly fitted one is a useless abomination. I find a doll’s head is fine on an ejector gun, but gets in the way of quick extraction on a non-ejector. Perhaps why Westleys incorporated the extra gape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 I have both types, with and without dolls head or any type of extension to the barrels. I never notice the dolls head when I'm using the gun though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Westley said: I have both types, with and without dolls head or any type of extension to the barrels. I never notice the dolls head when I'm using the gun though. For twenty seasons I used a 1906 built Derby Rosson non-ejector with a doll’s head. It was fine for pigeon, duck, general rough shooting and the type of driven shooting I was doing, but as I started to do more intense driven shooting and tried to reload ever faster I found I bashed my knuckles on the extension when in a hurry. Consequently, I began to take my cheap Spanish ejector for driven days but I always liked to shoot with an English gun so the Rosson had to be sold for an English B.L.E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted April 22, 2022 Report Share Posted April 22, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 The guns above ‘not’ stocked to the fences appear to have intercepting sears. Does that mean that guns stocked to the fences cannot have this facilility? OB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, Old Boggy said: The guns above ‘not’ stocked to the fences appear to have intercepting sears. Does that mean that guns stocked to the fences cannot have this facilility? OB On a sidelock, the intercepting sears are usually (always?) on the lock plate. Sometimes they are an extra sear, and at other times an intercepting 'catch' towards the top of the tumbler (hammer). I think the pin (screw) behind the fence in the lower picture may possibly be to retain the striker on a gun where there are no disc set strikers. Many sidelock best guns have disc set strikers, but some don't, in which case the strikers comer out rearwards after the lock plates are removed. I think that where boxlocks are fitted with intercepting safety, it may well have a pin where indicated behind the fences. I stand to be corrected, but I believe this to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said: On a sidelock, the intercepting sears are usually (always?) on the lock plate. Sometimes they are an extra sear, and at other times an intercepting 'catch' towards the top of the tumbler (hammer). I think the pin (screw) behind the fence in the lower picture may possibly be to retain the striker on a gun where there are no disc set strikers. Many sidelock best guns have disc set strikers, but some don't, in which case the strikers comer out rearwards after the lock plates are removed. I think that where boxlocks are fitted with intercepting safety, it may well have a pin where indicated behind the fences. I stand to be corrected, but I believe this to be the case. Many thanks for clarifying that John. OB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 Coincidently, as the title of this post is `Roach Belly Stock`, Marsh man mentioned in another post, the auction at Acle and lo and behold, there is a 12 bore Browning with roach belly stock in the auction for anyone interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Posted April 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 Photo of a Roach Bellystocked Browning next to a conventional stock one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted April 24, 2022 Report Share Posted April 24, 2022 19 hours ago, **** said: Photo of a Roach Bellystocked Browning next to a conventional stock one. I must admit to preferring the roach bellied stock to the full pistol one, but there again, I don’t shoot clays, so who am I to judge. OB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 24, 2022 Report Share Posted April 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Old Boggy said: I must admit to preferring the roach bellied stock to the full pistol one, but there again, I don’t shoot clays, so who am I to judge. OB About 30 years ago after a lot of saving, I realised an ambition and bought a sidelock Beretta O/U (SO 6 base engraving game model). I wanted a straight hand with double triggers, but because 'in stock' items were then heavily discounted - and a straight hand double trigger would be special order and long delivery - and no firm guarantee of any discount when it was available I reluctantly bought an 'off the shelf' pistol grip single trigger. The saving in money was huge. I have rather regretted it since as I still have the gun and although the single trigger has been faultless and I did have it fitted, the pistol grip still isn't as nice to hold/handle as a straight hand (to me). I did look at having the pistol grip either much reduced (to half pistol) or removed, but in the end bought another gun (not same make/type) with straight hand and double triggers for not a great deal more than having the SO properly converted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted April 24, 2022 Report Share Posted April 24, 2022 1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said: About 30 years ago after a lot of saving, I realised an ambition and bought a sidelock Beretta O/U (SO 6 base engraving game model). I wanted a straight hand with double triggers, but because 'in stock' items were then heavily discounted - and a straight hand double trigger would be special order and long delivery - and no firm guarantee of any discount when it was available I reluctantly bought an 'off the shelf' pistol grip single trigger. The saving in money was huge. I have rather regretted it since as I still have the gun and although the single trigger has been faultless and I did have it fitted, the pistol grip still isn't as nice to hold/handle as a straight hand (to me). I did look at having the pistol grip either much reduced (to half pistol) or removed, but in the end bought another gun (not same make/type) with straight hand and double triggers for not a great deal more than having the SO properly converted. Like you, and when I was working for myself and money was far more readily available, quite a few years ago I bought my first O/U which was a 20 bore Beretta EELL in standard format i.e. full pistol grip and single trigger. I even went to GMK to select the gun and had a choice of a nice figured wood for stock and fore-end. I subsequently had this altered to two triggers and a straight hand stock cast on for my left handedness, which was my ideal combination. Surprisingly, the alterations didn`t cost the earth if I recall. Very regrettably, a few years later, things went wrong for me financially and I had to sell the gun at quite a loss. Someone got an absolute bargain. Had that not happened, I feel sure that I would still have the gun to this day. As mentioned in a previous post, I now possess a nice 16 bore AYA Coral Deluxe with double triggers and straight hand stock. I now need for the stock to be cast on, although I seem to be able to shoot OK with the slightly right handed stock. OB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 27, 2022 Report Share Posted April 27, 2022 On 21/04/2022 at 15:14, JohnfromUK said: I have e mailed a Powell collector friend (in the USA) to see if he knows more about when Powell started to stock to the fences. I had a reply overnight last night. No significant extra information back I'm afraid. He confirms that the earliest Powell guns he has seen that ARE stocked to the fences would date to the 1920s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted April 27, 2022 Report Share Posted April 27, 2022 I can only comment that H&H stocked to the fences from the “Mark 2” Royal in the 1890’s. The original Royal did not have this refinement. I believe Purdey guns were stocked to the fences from the adoption of the Beesley action, circa 1880? No idea when other makers did this, or who started it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted April 27, 2022 Report Share Posted April 27, 2022 Holy thread creep Batman! I bet the OP has learned so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 27, 2022 Report Share Posted April 27, 2022 Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said: Holy thread creep Batman! I bet the OP has learned so much. Yes, I have felt a bit guilty about that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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