Be aware 410 express

[Old farrier]

So the day goes on

I’ve decided to keep hold of the cartridges for the moment 

and may send them off for testing should it become nessecary in the future 

I understand it’s a difficult time for the company in the changeover period which maybe causing the communication lapses 

have spoken at length with the supplier who to be fair is very embarrassed by this problem 

it’s not his fault 

anyway moving forward he’s sending a email to express and hopefully they can resolve this issue 

i shall let you know the outcome in due course 

Many thanks for your comments replies and help with this issue 

 

[harkom]

OF - may I suggest that you do not listen to the pundits advising you to expect an automatic offer of recompense from Express/Fiocchi. In my experience life is not like that !

[Old farrier]

5 minutes ago, harkom said:

OF - may I suggest that you do not listen to the pundits advising you to expect an automatic offer of recompense from Express/Fiocchi. In my experience life is not like that !

From the way it’s been going I have worked that out 🙄

the aim of my initial post was to make members aware of the problem 

my next aim is to stop anyone with a semi or pump action having a frustrating time or possibly worse by making them aware of the problem 

tbh I’m not expecting much from express at this point in time 

 

[holloway]

Just an update on my Eley query re incorrect boxes used ,I am delighted to report thatEley have. now replied in a helpful and professional manner so a big improvement with them ,well done Eley 

[button]

22 hours ago, harkom said:

OF - may I suggest that you do not listen to the pundits advising you to expect an automatic offer of recompense from Express/Fiocchi. In my experience life is not like that !

With a good business it is, that is what sets them apart, the way they deal with issues and how customers become great advocates

[Fellside]

2 hours ago, button said:

With a good business it is, that is what sets them apart, the way they deal with issues and how customers become great advocates

I completely agree. You really only know what a business is made of when you feedback a genuine product problem. Top companies stand by their products, some unfortunately launch in to a war of blame and denial. Express……?! They might have improved after being acquired by Fiocchi, hopefully for the OP, who knows. 

[Old farrier]

On 28/07/2022 at 14:41, holloway said:

Just an update on my Eley query re incorrect boxes used ,I am delighted to report thatEley have. now replied in a helpful and professional manner so a big improvement with them ,well done Eley 

A good result it would appear Eley customer service is on the ball 

well done Eley. 
 

im still waiting for a reply from express

as it’s Friday afternoon now I’m not hopeful 😡

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

A good result it would appear Eley customer service is on the ball 

well done Eley. 
 

im still waiting for a reply from express

as it’s Friday afternoon now I’m not hopeful 😡

 

Monday?

But much more likely Thursday!

[Old farrier]

2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Monday?

But much more likely Thursday!

Any idea which week 

I sometimes wonder why they have secretaries 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

11 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Any idea which week 

I sometimes wonder why they have secretaries 

Does anyone have secretaries these days, we no longer have receptionists or secretaries.

[mel b3]

This thread makes pretty grim reading .

I used to know an  old guy that worked at lyalvale for many years ,  and he was fiercely proud of the quality of their products . He'd be turning in his grave if he could read this thread.

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Monday?

But much more likely Thursday!

"Just don't tell 'em which Thursday."

[Old farrier]

2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Does anyone have secretaries these days, we no longer have receptionists or secretaries.

Well that could be part of the problem 

 

thought all MPs had them 

so who do you use as a excuse if you haven’t got a secretary?

[mel b3]

I've been thinking about these defective cartridges this morning,  and wondering just how dangerous they could be ?. I've also been wondering how many youngsters will be out shooting with their parents over the summer holidays , and , how many of them will be using a .410 with these apparently defective / possibly dangerous cartridges.  

I really hope that lyalvale take this issue seriously,  and don't just hope that nobody gets seriously injured , or worse.

[Walker570]

22 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

I've been thinking about these defective cartridges this morning,  and wondering just how dangerous they could be ?. I've also been wondering how many youngsters will be out shooting with their parents over the summer holidays , and , how many of them will be using a .410 with these apparently defective / possibly dangerous cartridges.  

I really hope that lyalvale take this issue seriously,  and don't just hope that nobody gets seriously injured , or worse.

You can never say never, but the possibility of a cartridge getting double loaded etc is very remote in this case.  The plastic shell is still in the chamber so stopping anothe live shell being chambered.    I am amazed that we have not had a response from Lylevale regarding this as yet.

[Old farrier]

10 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

You can never say never, but the possibility of a cartridge getting double loaded etc is very remote in this case.  The plastic shell is still in the chamber so stopping anothe live shell being chambered.    I am amazed that we have not had a response from Lylevale regarding this as yet.

However the chance of the front of the case being torn off by the wad travelling up the barrel and generating massive amount of over pressure is 

thanks Mel I hadn’t considered the massive amounts of inexperienced youngsters coming into the sport using the 410 very worrying 

 

 

[mel b3]

26 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

You can never say never, but the possibility of a cartridge getting double loaded etc is very remote in this case.  The plastic shell is still in the chamber so stopping anothe live shell being chambered.    I am amazed that we have not had a response from Lylevale regarding this as yet.

Do you think it would be possible for one of the cases to travel along the barrel and get stuck at the choke restriction?. I know that most .410 are pretty tightly choked . I know that it's probably quite unlikely , but the consequences of it happening could be tragic. 

[Old farrier]

3 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

Do you think it would be possible for one of the cases to travel along the barrel and get stuck at the choke restriction?. I know that most .410 are pretty tightly choked . I know that it's probably quite unlikely , but the consequences of it happening could be tragic. 

I think you should notice it in a break barrel gun but a pump or semi automatic? 
I do think there’s a higher likelihood of the end of the case travelling up the barrel and remaining in the choke area though again a problem with none break barrel guns 

irrespective of that should the heads come off any cartridges ? 
we shall see what Monday brings 

my apologies I see you have directed the question to walker sorry 

[wymberley]

18 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

Do you think it would be possible for one of the cases to travel along the barrel and get stuck at the choke restriction?. I know that most .410 are pretty tightly choked . I know that it's probably quite unlikely , but the consequences of it happening could be tragic. 

Unlikely. Pressure acts equally in all directions and as the case has a large area and as force equals pressure times area it's probably going to stay put.

[mel b3]

17 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

I think you should notice it in a break barrel gun but a pump or semi automatic? 
I do think there’s a higher likelihood of the end of the case travelling up the barrel and remaining in the choke area though again a problem with none break barrel guns 

irrespective of that should the heads come off any cartridges ? 
we shall see what Monday brings 

my apologies I see you have directed the question to walker sorry 

I was just thinking out loud really . I'd sort of assumed that it was as wymberley explained,  but then again I suppose anything could happen.

3 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Unlikely. Pressure acts equally in all directions and as the case has a large area and as force equals pressure times area it's probably going to stay put.

 

[Walker570]

As said, never say never. When a 357 lead projectile can go through two 1/2 inch layers of rubber matting then hit a designed sloping armoured steel plate which directs the bullets into 18 inches of water, for that bullet to come back out and hit somebody standing on the 7yrd line seems impossible.   It did and hit my shoulder leaving a tidy bruise.

NEVER SAY NEVER.

[Old farrier]

18 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Unlikely. Pressure acts equally in all directions and as the case has a large area and as force equals pressure times area it's probably going to stay put.

so there’s so much pressure it’s blowing the heads off and shredding the front of the case?

 

 

That’s theory!!! And physics !! and probability 

In theory you should be able to buy a cartridge that works 

in practice well it appears you can’t 

In probability there’s going to be a serious accident 

 

and in theory the manufacturers would be helpful 

in practice well who knows 

in probability they probably don’t care as 410 is only a very small market 

 

[wymberley]

Yep, it probably shouldn't have happened.

[Old farrier]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

Yep, it probably shouldn't have happened.

Probably?

do you honestly think it’s acceptable for the heads to come off a case when you fire it 

personally think it definitely shouldn’t happen 

[wymberley]

3 hours ago, Old farrier said:

Probably?

do you honestly think it’s acceptable for the heads to come off a case when you fire it 

personally think it definitely shouldn’t happen 

Agree wholeheartedly. Couldn't used quotation marks as what was 'quoted' which was "probably shouldn't happen" and which was not what I wrote. Anything can probably happen and will, usually timed to give the worst possible effect -Murphy and Sod have it.

Edited August 1, 2022 by wymberley