Do I need to send my sgc off for an rfd transfer?

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, timps said:

While it might "technically" get around the conditions on your cert you’ve just given a random stranger a load of money as a gift with no legal recourse should they not deliver.

The same stands if you had sent the money and your ticket, you have no legal recourse , people get ripped off this way all the time.

4 minutes ago, timps said:

The law takes a dim view of you trying to circumvent it, if you ask a lawyer for clarification, they are going to ask why have you just given £xxxx to a random stranger so he can just give a gun to a random shop and pay them £xx  to give it to another random shop who then gives it to you?

As above, youve given money to a random stranger , AND a legal document that could entitle the holder to purchase a firearm.
The 'shops' in this case are RFDs , who one would think are pretty well vetted ? If anyone is better to handle a firearm transaction, Id like to know who.

Anyway , again , Im not saying youre wrong, its a poor system, with know and exploited loopholes, and a potential for disaster.

[Scully]

I have only ever once sent my ticket to a seller, and that was Avalon Guns. They filled the relevant slot and returned it and the gun to a local RFD. 
All other times I’ve bought a gun other than face to face, the seller has sent it to his RFD who has sent it to mine, who has phoned me to tell me it’s arrived, whereupon I’ve collected it and bunged the RFD a few quid for his time. 
Now I know it’s not how it’s supposed to be done, apparently, but if it’s the RFD telling you that you can do it like this, then why wouldn’t you? 
As for FEO’s advice, it is my experience  that both FEO’s and licensing will advise you of what is easiest for them, regardless of legislation; the issuing of S7’s being just one example. 

[London Best]

If you want to buy a gun at some distance, why not just get in the car and go and get it?

With many vehicles now capable of 50mpg, if it is a 400 miles round trip the cost is around £60/70. Surely RFD to RFD costs £25 each end?? So the difference might be around £25, you get a day out and no worries or legal hassles. Plus.......you actually get to see what you are buying, which is a must for me.

Whilst it doesn’t add up for buying a ten bob gun, surely it has got to be worth it for one costing, say £500 upwards.

Edited August 4, 2022 by London Best

[TIGHTCHOKE]

18 minutes ago, London Best said:

If you want to buy a gun at some distance, why not just get in the car and go and get it?

With many vehicles now capable of 50mpg, if it is a 400 miles round trip the cost is around £60/70. Surely RFD to RFD costs £25 each end?? So the difference might be around £25, you get a day out and no worries or legal hassles. Plus.......you actually get to see what you are buying, which is a must for me.

Whilst it doesn’t add up for buying a ten bob gun, surely it has got to be worth it for one costing, say £500 upwards.

Quite possibly.

But I trust Chris Potters and paid Mick for receiving the gun as he is a business, not a charity. It was cheaper than driving to Tunbridge Wells from Peterborough in fuel and more importantly my time.

[bornfree]

I just did this last week. Bought a gun over the phone from a dealer up north he asked for an scanned front page of my certificate to be emailed to him. He sent the gun overnight to my local RFD and I picked it up at 11am my local RFD filled in my certificate and gave me a transfer form to send to my police. The selling RFD and my RFD never mentioned that I should have sent my certificate.

[rbrowning2]

talking to my local rfd today about this, they have to fill in their register with, sold or transferred .  If sold then they complete the certificate, but if transferred then they do not, as the seller must do so. The register gets audited by the police and some entries are checked all the way back to source, to confirm all was correct. Then if sold, the rfd becomes legally responsible in law for the goods under the consumer rights act. Then the issue of what if the customer changes their mind the rfd receiving the gun has to pay to return it or keep it and where is the money at that time for the gun.

The rfd today said follow the correct process, if not it is just not worth their time and they would decline receiving the gun after all they are in business to sell guns not act as a post box.

They have taken guns in to transfer and they tell the seller to get the individual buying the gun to send their certificate to them, then when the seller brings the gun in they can inspect the gun, request the buyer transfers the money to the seller (easy to do these days) and then they get the seller to complete the buyers certificate. The gun and certificate is then send to the buyers rfd for collection.

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by rbrowning2

[ordnance]

Quote

 

In Notts , very hard work !

They take calls between 10am and 12 noon, virtually impossible to get through to them.
As a club sec , I have personal numbers and emails for FEO s , they dont answer them either !

 

Gun licence backlog declared critical incident by PSNI - BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk › uk-northern-ireland-62307748

 

27 Jul 2022 — A firearms group has hit out over a backlog in the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) licensing department. A firearms licence is needed .

Edited August 8, 2022 by ordnance

[button]

On 04/08/2022 at 15:15, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Quite possibly.

But I trust Chris Potters and paid Mick for receiving the gun as he is a business, not a charity. It was cheaper than driving to Tunbridge Wells from Peterborough in fuel and more importantly my time.

100% with you on this

Living up north, the last gun I got was from Avalon which would have been 1400 mile round trip and near £250 in fuel! A business that wants to survive is not going to try and pull the wool over your eyes, they did a video call, I paid, posted certificate and arranged pick up at this end

Painless and as TC says not only was it cheaper, it saved me time which is key for me

I could not recommend Avalon guns, 1st class customer experience and an absolute pleasure to deal with!

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, button said:

A business that wants to survive is not going to try and pull the wool over your eyes, they did a video call, I paid, posted certificate and arranged pick up at this end

Lets just clarify something , you have dealt directly with an RFD, no issues with sending your ticket to an RFD, they are 'trusted'

The original issue was buying a gun remotely , and sending payment , then ticket to a private person you do not know.
The interpretation on your licence stipulates this is the correct way, BUT its vague on how the ticket gets there , posting is not mentioned, only BASC in their advice says this.
Like I said , and my FEO agreed , this leaves you wide open to a scam with possibly serious consequences.

A better way would be to have the ticket sent to the posting RFD , where the ticket could be filled out when the gun is dropped off, yet neither your licence or the BASC advice seem to suggest this.
Go figure.

[button]

27 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Lets just clarify something , you have dealt directly with an RFD, no issues with sending your ticket to an RFD, they are 'trusted'

The original issue was buying a gun remotely , and sending payment , then ticket to a private person you do not know.
The interpretation on your licence stipulates this is the correct way, BUT its vague on how the ticket gets there , posting is not mentioned, only BASC in their advice says this.
Like I said , and my FEO agreed , this leaves you wide open to a scam with possibly serious consequences.

A better way would be to have the ticket sent to the posting RFD , where the ticket could be filled out when the gun is dropped off, yet neither your licence or the BASC advice seem to suggest this.
Go figure.

Also bought of an individual and posted certificate with no issues, not sure why you think something bad is going to happen once you have satisfied yourself that all is above board

Why would I worry about the certificate going in the post? The police don't when they send it out to me

Just seems some always look for what could go wrong, not good for your health all that worrying about something that might never happen!

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, button said:

Also bought of an individual and posted certificate with no issues, not sure why you think something bad is going to happen once you have satisfied yourself that all is above board

Im not saying that, Im saying there is potential for it to happen , because the recommended system is flawed.

6 minutes ago, button said:

Why would I worry about the certificate going in the post? The police don't when they send it out to me

Not saying that either, the post is as secure as it can be, Im saying it would be better sent to the RFD.

8 minutes ago, button said:

Just seems some always look for what could go wrong, not good for your health all that worrying about something that might never happen!

Ill be OK thanks !
If we go back to the OPs original question , he had concerns about sending his ticket out to someone he didnt know.
My FEO said it didnt sound like a good idea.
People get ripped off all the time while buying off forums , social media ect, the potential to get scammed on the sale of a (non existant) firearm is a real concern.
But the loss of your ticket to a scammer is worse in many ways.
They know your address, and what firearms you have there for one, they also have the potential to buy a firearm and ammunition on the open slot you have on your ticket.
If something CAN  happen, then at some point it probably will.

[HantsRob]

On 10/08/2022 at 08:58, button said:

I could not recommend Avalon guns, 1st class customer experience and an absolute pleasure to deal with!

I hope you missed a word there

I have bought 1 gun direct from them and had a great service, including them sending missing chokes next day. Also bought one via a friend from Avalon and had a no-fuss experience

[button]

1 hour ago, HantsRob said:

I hope you missed a word there

I have bought 1 gun direct from them and had a great service, including them sending missing chokes next day. Also bought one via a friend from Avalon and had a no-fuss experience

Well spotted missed out enough! Avalon were brilliant! 

Edited August 11, 2022 by button

[Velocette]

Just to add a variation to the list of possible ways to transfer a shotgun, I saw a gun I wanted at a dealers in the South West. After short exchange of information, pictures and a scan of the front page of my certificate I paid for the gun by bank transfer. The shop then sent it to my RFD who I paid for his trouble and it was entered as GIVEN by him when filling out  my certificate. ? All seemed well and West Yorks were happy to accept this when I notified them of the acquisition. I seemed sensible at the time.