Gun fitting advice.

[garygreengrass]

I  would go and have the gun fitted is does make a difference. 

[Tallguy]

Ben Hustwaite fitted my gun, shot so much better afterwards and he only charged £75 and I had a bit of instruction with him afterwards. Top bloke who knows what he is doing. Gun fit is an art form few master. 

[Westley]

On 08/12/2022 at 21:43, Tallguy said:

Ben Hustwaite fitted my gun, shot so much better afterwards and he only charged £75 and I had a bit of instruction with him afterwards. Top bloke who knows what he is doing. Gun fit is an art form few master. 

I agree that FEW master the art, but it shows just how vast the subject is. From what I have seen, Ben goes totally against the grain where pattern plates are concerned and actually mocks their usage, BUT, an awful lot of stockfitters used NOTHING else. Westley Richards is one. Situated in the City of Birmingham, it is difficult to start lobbing clays around or even having a pot at the odd feral pigeon, so they rely on pattern plates. As they have been successfully fitting guns to clients since 1812 using pattern plates, according to Ben they have totally wasted their time. I for one can vouch for their competence in their use of pattern plates. There are several Gunmakers still in business in UK, who are using pattern plates and achieving good results for their clients. It is the expertise of the stockfitters that really matters, regardless of their methods used.

[HantsRob]

Just curious but this seems reasonably priced? Has anyone used their services?

 

https://stephenandson-gunmakers.co.uk/bedfordshire-gun-services/gun-fitting/

[JohnfromUK]

11 hours ago, HantsRob said:

Just curious but this seems reasonably priced? Has anyone used their services?

 

https://stephenandson-gunmakers.co.uk/bedfordshire-gun-services/gun-fitting/

I would expect (as has been said above) any fitting session to have 'live firing' at a pattern plate - and possibly clays as well.  This sounds like a 'shop view' session.  Both guns I have had fitted have involved firing and pattern plate.  The first session also included clays. mainly I think for the fitter to see my gun mount and 'style (or lack of it!).

[HantsRob]

On 02/11/2022 at 11:39, ehb102 said:

I had one from Julian at Atkin, Grant and Lang.

 

The gun fit is £250. This includes 2 hours with our instructor on the try-gun to take your measurements, and another session on your own gun after it has been altered.
Stock cast costs £135 (at customers own risk). Adjusting length and fitting a pad is £180 plus the pad.

 

From AGL, to reference your experience but also the prices!
I was thinking of getting my stock cast, but it always worries me with at customers own risk..... Also thinking of 135+180+pad may pay towards a new stock..... hmmmmmm

[enfieldspares]

On 16/12/2022 at 09:09, Westley said:

From what I have seen, Ben goes totally against the grain where pattern plates are concerned and actually mocks their usage, BUT, an awful lot of stockfitters used NOTHING else. 

I met BH and he seems a nice enough bloke too. But as all the best makers used and use pattern plates as an initial guide I do question his method if he decries them. Used properly and correctly they are a quick, fast, easily understood tool. That Kibworth Shooting Ground does NOT have a conventional (steel plate at sixteen yards) pattern plate may well be worth considering when passing verdict on the merits or non-merits of such! That Holland's use such (I had my first fitting done there by Ken Davies) tells me a lot about the merit of the methods of those who don't. As others say it is a starting point and, at the end of the whole session and ending point to conform what has been done has been done correctly.

Edited December 22, 2022 by enfieldspares

[Westley]

Unfortunately those who can use a pattern plate and from that successfully and correctly fit a gun, are becoming  fewer in number.

[Lloyd90]

On 31/10/2022 at 16:47, enfieldspares said:

If you are going to have a gunfitting then have it done right. Not Jack, Ted, Harry in his gunshop, or the nonsense you see on You Tube with a fat bloke harping on about three fingers and "the crook of the arm" but done right. Or others unscrewing buttpads and inserting coins! You're forty now so other than spreading around the waist pretty much how you'll be for the next twenty-five years. So forty is a good time to be properly fitted.

Make it a day out, take a train, take the family, let them go shopping in London whilst you visit Holland's at Northwood.

They fit for both side by side and over and under and have try guns for each. One type of gun = one session. They'll do the job right starting with a pattern plate, then simple going away birds and onto high incomers and, if you ask, any "bogey" bird that you have. Everyone has a "bogey" bird. Mine are ten yard driven birds.

They'll give you all the measurements on a piece of paper for single and double trigger side by side and single trigger over under according to that session and a coffee before and after too. Try to arrive early...even an hour early...to allow any "set" you muscles have taken from driving down of being sat on a train to "unset". It's a day well spent and worth the money. 

Last just like an eye test there's no obligation at all to have any work done at Holland's. None at all.

Oh and that "custom made" You Tube nonsense? If you are lucky you'll fit a modern gun right off the peg, or just some slight tweaking, especially those made form the 2000s onwards. You may just well be that Mr Average Man that today's post 2000 guns are made to fit off the peg! But if you're shaped like Mr Blobby or wide shouldered like an American footballer or shaped like a giraffe with neck to match then maybe not so!

And how much does such a fitting cost? 🤔

[London Best]

8 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

And how much does such a fitting cost? 🤔

I paid £120 at Holland’s at Northolt eight years ago.

Go in Jan/Feb when they usually have special offer prices.

[Lloyd90]

37 minutes ago, London Best said:

I paid £120 at Holland’s at Northolt eight years ago.

Go in Jan/Feb when they usually have special offer prices.

Cor that’s not bad at all! 

[enfieldspares]

55 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Cor that’s not bad at all! 

About what I was going to reply. My tip get there one full hour early so your muscles and body shape unwind from travelling. Especially if you've drven down.

[Lloyd90]

10 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

About what I was going to reply. My tip get there one full hour early so your muscles and body shape unwind from travelling. Especially if you've drven down.

Looks to be £160 now, still not bad. 

[London Best]

10 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Looks to be £160 now, still not bad. 

Northolt has a reputation of being the best gun fitting in the World. 
Not a reputation they would want to lose.

[ditchman]

if i were having a stock cast.......i personally would only have it cast using the hot oil and hemp twine method done over a couple of days..........not the infa-red lamp method..

[HantsRob]

On 23/12/2022 at 22:08, Lloyd90 said:

Looks to be £160 now, still not bad. 

 

That is per hour so I’d expect that to be 320 for the first fit, then adjustments, then a third hour on top 

[London Best]

10 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

That is per hour so I’d expect that to be 320 for the first fit, then adjustments, then a third hour on top 

I expect that you are wrong.

[HantsRob]

32 minutes ago, London Best said:

I expect that you are wrong.

I’d be more than happy if that was the complete price. It was agl that suggested 2 hours for gunfit etc. my bad. 
 

Ian coley suggests;

A Gun Fit (up to 2 hours) using our try-guns and pattern plate costs £200, plus clays and cartridges as used. You are welcome to bring your own cartridges - fibre wad only.

A Gun Fit with a 1-hour follow-up session to familiarise yourself with the new fit (recommended) costs £270.

Edited December 27, 2022 by HantsRob

[HantsRob]

32 minutes ago, London Best said:

I expect that you are wrong.

Do you think h&h will take only an hour? I’m interested to learn from your experience

[Smudger687]

14 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

Do you think h&h will take only an hour? I’m interested to learn from your experience

I'm with London Best on this, I think you're wrong. 

I have no reason to believe this, other than the fact that London Best is always right. 

[Old farrier]

23 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

Do you think h&h will take only an hour? I’m interested to learn from your experience

Naa it’ll take longer but worth the money just for the experience 

there a very reputable firm and very helpful a phone call explaining your requirements experience and the type of gun you wish to have fitted would be helpful for you to gauge whether it’s the way you wish to go 

Id budget £500 and half a day + a couple of hundred for a few clays cartridges and the experience of shooting the ground 

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, Smudger687 said:

I have no reason to believe this.....

Here's two reasons. I have had two fittings at Holland's. One in December 2004 by Ken Davies the other in August 2015 by Nathan Dooley. Both were done in one hour and charged accordingly. We all get "thinner" in the face as we age so that cast usually gets lesser. As indeed it did. What's Coley doing for two hours? Baking the client a cake?

[HantsRob]

10 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

Here's two reasons. I have had two fittings at Holland's. One in December 2004 by Ken Davies the other in August 2015 by Nathan Dooley. Both were done in one hour and charged accordingly. We all get "thinner" in the face as we age so that cast usually gets lesser. As indeed it did. What's Coley doing for two hours? Baking the client a cake?

Thankyou, that's really useful to know! If anything it builds the excitement for me now

12 hours ago, Old farrier said:

Naa it’ll take longer but worth the money just for the experience 

there a very reputable firm and very helpful a phone call explaining your requirements experience and the type of gun you wish to have fitted would be helpful for you to gauge whether it’s the way you wish to go 

Id budget £500 and half a day + a couple of hundred for a few clays cartridges and the experience of shooting the ground 

I had put aside £600 for fitting, followup, and for a fun day out. I know adjustments and maybe getting a london finish done after also will be on top and another several hundred. It would be a once in a lifetime (or at least once in a decade?) experience for me to get measured correctly, and tweaked when I lose this Christmas pudge

12 hours ago, Smudger687 said:

I'm with London Best on this, I think you're wrong. 

I have no reason to believe this, other than the fact that London Best is always right. 

Oh I am genuinely learning rather than challenging. AGL have said the same as Coley. I have sent an email to H&H and will followup via phone with any questions, I will happily share their reply. I do respect LB amongst others, their knowledge is invaluable and I am happy to stand corrected as a relative newbie to the sport.

[London Best]

12 hours ago, HantsRob said:

Do you think h&h will take only an hour? I’m interested to learn from your experience

My experience was that I went in January for one of the reduced price lessons/fitting. When I arrived I left my gun in the car. Mrs LB and I went in and were given free coffee and told to take our time browsing the superb showroom/clubhouse. Whilst we were wandering about the instructor/fitter was eyeing me up and fiddling with a try-gun. After we finished the coffee he asked me to fetch my gun from the car. He opened the case and put my gun together and asked if I knew what measurements it had. The gun was built in 1930 and I had researched it with the shop (H&H). I produced the copy of the original order which they had sent me. The fitter read the measurements and, smiling, told me he had just set the try-gun to those exact measurements. Then he measured my gun to see if it still carried it’s original measurements, which it did. I was asked to mount the gun a few times at different angles of elevation whilst he stood behind me. Also, I mounted the gun at his right eye as he looked from the muzzle end. He said the gun appeared to fit perfectly and, subject to my performance when we went outside, he did not think the fit could be improved upon. (I thought the gun fit was perfect for me the first time I handled it prior to purchase). He asked if I had used the gun since purchasing it and If I was happy shooting it. I was able to confirm that I had used it for one season driven birds and thought I had shot very well with it. We went outside and fired four shots, two from each barrel, at the pattern plate at forty yards. He examined the point of impact closely for some minutes and then we moved on to the clays. These are not competitive type targets, but designed to represent the sort of stuff encountered on a typical, not too difficult, day’s shooting. Naturally, we started with three or four simple, going away walked-up type shots. Then medium incomers, higher incomers and low incomers. Then crossers both ways. Then we did what the instructor called eleven o’clock and one o’clock shots. Highish incomers not directly at you. OK at one o’clock, but missed three straight at eleven o’clock. He told me to try dropping my shoulder for that particular shot and it worked just fine. At the end of the session, during which I fired at sixty five clays those were the only shots missed. I was told that if Holland’s were making me a gun at that time they would make it to exactly those measurements. I was charged the £120 plus the cost of clays, which I can’t remember. I went there pretty sure that the fit was right, but have shot with great confidence since being told so by the people at Northolt.

[HantsRob]

@London Best I just feasted on your words, thankyou for a great explanation! I think that really makes my mind up, between you and several other contributors on this thread (thanks to all) I will look to book in January. 

Is the reduced price fitting/lesson a fairly standard H&H January discount do you know? Even at full price I think for what you have described is bob on! 

 

Open Q for yourself and anyone else.... I have a new DT11, but fixed comb. If I needed to 'bend' it, would it be better to have a comb riser cut in for fitting, or just bend the stock to be unique to me? I think a solid stock is prettier, but adjustable helps with resale value.

I will be looking at Ian Sweetman for a london finish (I have been semi-reliably told he's one of the best if not the best in trade currently?), would he be a good choice also for adjusting the stock from experience?