Pump action at a Clay ground

[TK421]

I think the issue only arises when you’re dealing with idiots hence the need to have a blanket ground rule for everyone, that way you cater for stupid, and let’s face they can turn up to any ground at any time. 
also shooting ESP with a cheap *** pump isn’t the best idea, in my opinion especially when you can’t even hit the first and it jams on the second. *** 
 

Edited December 31, 2022 by TK421

[terence]

8 hours ago, Poor Shot said:

I quite often load 3 when I use an auto to save time in the stand. I only use it at a local club ground and with the consent of the person running the shoot that day.

Much quicker to load 3 first up and then top up two in the bottom after every pair than put one into the chamber, cycle it then put another in the bottom. Only load one additional cartridge when the buttoner calls last pair. As its an auto there's no reason for the muzzle ever to come out of the 'safe zone' until your done and the breach flag is put back in the gun.

Don't even start on auto users that walk off after shooting having left 10 empties on the floor 😆 They should be shunned by the shooting communities and their own families.

Theres just as many with o/u that let there emptys fly 

[Charliedog]

12 hours ago, Westley said:

All Competitions that I have attended have had a Referee on every stand and as such, this sort of behaviour is unlikely to occur.

Why 

My experience is it attracts the get the gun out once a year crowd who clog up stands and generally have little awareness of what constitutes a long queue of their making type of attitude

[TK421]

19 minutes ago, Charliedog said:

My experience is it attracts the get the gun out once a year crowd who clog up stands and generally have little awareness of what constitutes a long queue of their making type of attitude

This is exactly what happened on said day.  They genuinely didn’t give a 💩

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Several years ago, a Mate and I regularly went to a newish clay ground to the east of Peterborough for relatively cheap practice in between registered competitions.

One day we got to about the 4th stand and there were a group of young, well to do lads and two girls all in their early 20's. Each of the lads had a whole slab of cartridges opened on one end and carried very uncomfortably around. The ground at this time had no scorers so everyone "buttoned" for each other.

We started to pay attention when the lad that was shooting when we arrived carried on past 5 pairs! He eventually got bored and another lad stepped up, he shot 9 pairs!

Well we waited patiently until one of the girls got in to the stand, didn't know what she was doing and was obviously getting hurt with each shot.

We walked away to the next stand and happened to bump in to one of the chaps who owned the shoot. A quick chat and he was off to throw them off the shoot.

Only used to see this poor behaviour at the small annual fundraising straw bailer shoots.

[Westley]

57 minutes ago, Charliedog said:

My experience is it attracts the get the gun out once a year crowd who clog up stands and generally have little awareness of what constitutes a long queue of their making type of attitude

I took my Son in Law and 2 Grandsons on Boxing Day to the local ground. They have all shot before, but it has been some months since they last shot and as such needed some help with gun hold point etc. This takes time, but they are paying as much as the next person and NONE of us were born holding a gun. I did however, on several stands, let some people 'shoot through'. We then resumed after they had shot and moved on. As there were some groups of 5 or more, I felt that their wait would not be much more than they themselves were creating. We simply by-passed that stand and then came back to it later. How are people going to get into our sport if we do not encourage them and I was always led to believe that Christmas is a 'Family' time  ?

[London Best]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

 

We started to pay attention when the lad that was shooting when we arrived carried on past 5 pairs! 

I am surprised to learn that this is even a ‘thing’.

I would never have considered that it mattered, unless it was at a competition (which I have never attended). Am I not right that at a ‘pay and play’ you can shoot what you wish?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 minutes ago, London Best said:

I am surprised to learn that this is even a ‘thing’.

I would never have considered that it mattered, unless it was at a competition (which I have never attended). Am I not right that at a ‘pay and play’ you can shoot what you wish?

Each of the lads had bought a card, which allowed for a hundred targets like the rest of us. To then shoot almost twice as many is blindly robbing the guy who puts the shoot on and causes everyone to wait longer.

It is basically fraudulent!

Added to which they each turned up with 250 cartridges rather gave the game away that they were chancers.

[London Best]

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Each of the lads had bought a card, which allowed for a hundred targets like the rest of us. To then shoot almost twice as many is blindly robbing the guy who puts the shoot on and causes everyone to wait longer.

It is basically fraudulent!

Added to which they each turned up with 250 cartridges rather gave the game away that they were chancers.

Paying up front for a 100 makes it a different case, obviously. But it must have been a competition if you had score cards? If not a competition, apart from the bad manners of hogging a trap and not letting others through I can’t see the problem. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

12 minutes ago, London Best said:

Paying up front for a 100 makes it a different case, obviously. But it must have been a competition if you had score cards? If not a competition, apart from the bad manners of hogging a trap and not letting others through I can’t see the problem. 

Not a competition, just a way to record your kills and keep track of how many targets you have shot at.

 

When you buy an amount of something, firewood, coffee or even fuel, do you expect to get twice as much as you pay for?

Edited December 31, 2022 by TIGHTCHOKE

[London Best]

1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Not a competition, just a way to record your kills and keep track of how many targets you have shot at.

On the very rare occasions I go clay shooting I have never had a score card and the electronic gismo you plug in at each trap counts the clays. Pay after.
I have never counted how many I hit.
And I wouldn’t want my score recording ‘cause I would look silly!

[Westley]

Most of the grounds that I attend use the 'Promatic '  card system. You get 110 clays put on the card for each shooter using that card. The clays are then deducted from the card as you progress around the layout. This helps prevent misuse of the card by over shooting. IF it is a registered comp. there is a Ref. at each stand. However, on normal practice days, we still like to score the round, just for our own benefit. There are 'Instruction' stands which are used by Qualified Instructors and rather than just 'kick people off the ground', I would refer them to those stands where they could be supervised. Failure to comply with that request, then kick em off  ! We all have a duty to police our sport and if irresponsible behaviour is witnessed,  then at least make ground staff aware. The 'Nothin to do with me ' brigade are responsible for this behaviour continuing and they remain unchallenged.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 minutes ago, London Best said:

On the very rare occasions I go clay shooting I have never had a score card and the electronic gismo you plug in at each trap counts the clays. Pay after.
I have never counted how many I hit.
And I wouldn’t want my score recording ‘cause I would look silly!

When you buy an amount of something, firewood, coffee or even fuel, do you expect to get twice as much as you pay for?

[Rock_n_Roll_Outlaw]

20 hours ago, Spr1985 said:

Most if not all of the clay grounds I’ve been to have it clearly stated in the club/ground rules that only two cartridges shall be loaded into semi/pump shotguns.  The only exception I have ever seen was at Hepworth hall for the ambassador auto competition and that’s because each stand has at least one set of three clays in the air at once. Although the likelihood of people reading the rules prior to shooting at each ground in my opinion is very low, therefore the group where no doubt oblivious of the rule. (No excuse) 

I had never heard of this shoot, thanks for that. I'm a big fan of the 3 shot auto competitions, they're great fun. There's the Benelli Sp'auto and semi auto masters both at Barbury. There's one at Sywell and one at Orston. Anyone know of any others? 

[Westley]

Is Father Christmas a 'game shooter'   ?

I followed him around on Boxing Day, empty cases everywhere.  Still, I suppose he had been up all night  !

Had to clean the car park too, reindeer carp everywhere!

[Westley]

42 minutes ago, Westley said:

Is Father Christmas a 'game shooter'   ?

I followed him around on Boxing Day, empty cases everywhere.  Still, I suppose he had been up all night  !

Had to clean the car park too, reindeer carp everywhere!

Just found out he was promoting.............

ELFIN SAFETY  !    Boom Boom  !

[London Best]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

When you buy an amount of something, firewood, coffee or even fuel, do you expect to get twice as much as you pay for?

No, of course not. It’s just that when I’ve been clay shooting you pay for what  is counted on the gismo afterwards and shoot what you fancy.

[Charliedog]

2 hours ago, Westley said:

I took my Son in Law and 2 Grandsons on Boxing Day to the local ground. They have all shot before, but it has been some months since they last shot and as such needed some help with gun hold point etc. This takes time, but they are paying as much as the next person and NONE of us were born holding a gun. I did however, on several stands, let some people 'shoot through'. We then resumed after they had shot and moved on. As there were some groups of 5 or more, I felt that their wait would not be much more than they themselves were creating. We simply by-passed that stand and then came back to it later. How are people going to get into our sport if we do not encourage them and I was always led to believe that Christmas is a 'Family' time  ?

Not disagreeing with you just expressing my preference to stay away for the week so the people you descibe can do what they wish to, too.

[Westley]

19 minutes ago, Charliedog said:

Not disagreeing with you just expressing my preference to stay away for the week so the people you descibe can do what they wish to, too.

Yes, their total lack of consideration for others beggars belief, but is that not a common thing today   ?   Don't get me started on drivers attitudes   !   😄

[TK421]

1 hour ago, Westley said:

Just found out he was promoting.............

ELFIN SAFETY  !    Boom Boom  !

Lol. Very good 😂 

[Smudger687]

On 30/12/2022 at 15:21, Gordon R said:

Loading more than two in a pump or semi auto is just stupid. Why would anyone need to do it other than idiocy or cheating? 

Had a few words, many years ago, at Quarnford Clay Shoot at Buxton. Joe Hill shot the best, I was second, when an idiot came in with a 49/50. I had seen him loading three into a Browning auto and taking extra pairs. When confronted he said everyone did it - his mate only started counting hits when he started to hit a pair. He was disgracefully relegated to third place, instead of being banned from the shoot. 

 

Why is loading 3 idiotic? The gun will take 3, so what's the issue with loading 3?

Do you only load one cartridge in your over and under, for fear of forgetting that you've got a second shot? Of course not, that's bloody stupid. A pump can be rendered completely safe by having the bolt open, just like an over and under is rendered safe by breaking it. Both are completely unable to fire in such a position. 

Poor gun safety is less of an issue of the gun and far more the person operating it. Your attitude towards pumps is exactly the same form of sneering condescension that the driven game lot have for semi-autos. It's nothing to do with safety, it's just snobbery, no matter how else you dress it up. 

[Scully]

33 minutes ago, Smudger687 said:

Why is loading 3 idiotic? The gun will take 3, so what's the issue with loading 3?

Do you only load one cartridge in your over and under, for fear of forgetting that you've got a second shot? Of course not, that's bloody stupid. A pump can be rendered completely safe by having the bolt open, just like an over and under is rendered safe by breaking it. Both are completely unable to fire in such a position. 

Poor gun safety is less of an issue of the gun and far more the person operating it. Your attitude towards pumps is exactly the same form of sneering condescension that the driven game lot have for semi-autos. It's nothing to do with safety, it's just snobbery, no matter how else you dress it up. 

This is how I see it also. 

[Gordon R]

I have shot at many, many clay shoots all over the country. I have only ever seen singles and a pair, other than a flush. Why would anyone want to load more than two for a pair is beyond me.  Whilst some obviously disagree, I believe it is unsafe. Ask any ground owner if they are happy with you loading more than two. I suspect I know the answer. Most have a sign up telling shooters specifically not to load more than two.

Quote

Do you only load one cartridge in your over and under, for fear of forgetting that you've got a second shot? Of course not, that's bloody stupid.

Now that is a truly stupid remark.

[TK421]

18 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I have shot at many, many clay shoots all over the country. I have only ever seen singles and a pair, other than a flush. Why would anyone want to load more than two for a pair is beyond me.  Whilst some obviously disagree, I believe it is unsafe. Ask any ground owner if they are happy with you loading more than two. I suspect I know the answer. Most have a sign up telling shooters specifically not to load more than two.

Now that is a truly stupid remark.

I’ve since posting shot at a couple of other clay grounds and asked this exact question, all owners stated and in some cases pointed me to the notice stating 2 cartridges ‘ONLY’ as you simply can’t cater for stupidity. All owners had stories of issues and near missed with one guy shooting his toes off and another shooting his car door. They also made comment on the fact the clays come in pairs. 
The reason for this thread was more relating to pump action, as opposed to semi auto, but the rule still stands for both at the grounds I shoot. The semi is almost certainly capable of hitting both targets, whereas what I witnessed with the pump, you’d struggle every time to hit the second, let alone get a third off. Simo pairs you’d only get one shot off leaving 2 in the chamber. It Felt more square peg round hole and to me looked blooming awkward to say the least. 

for clarity, from my part this isn’t any form of snobbery at all, what I and many others witnessed on that particular day looked and was simply unsafe use, the fact it was a pump I think further added to this. Some of this was down to the owner, some due to the design and purpose of the pump. To be fair the rest of that particular squad seemed to be having more fun with their O/U as they were actually hitting stuff. 

This is an open debate guys to discuss this, I genuinely can’t see any need to take a 3 shot pump to a dedicated clay ground other than to tit about, this being the case follow ground rules and stick to 2, if not go to somewhere that allows it. it’s always going to attract attention and differing opinion especially if the ground rules aren’t being followed, from those stood in the queue behind waiting for the stand to become vacant and the gun to be unjammed. 

[Smudger687]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

I have shot at many, many clay shoots all over the country. I have only ever seen singles and a pair, other than a flush. Why would anyone want to load more than two for a pair is beyond me.  Whilst some obviously disagree, I believe it is unsafe. Ask any ground owner if they are happy with you loading more than two. I suspect I know the answer. Most have a sign up telling shooters specifically not to load more than two.

Now that is a truly stupid remark.

Oh, well if you don't see the need for it then I guess everyone else is wrong aren't they?