Old style springers

[shotgunbully]

Hi Im looking into getting another dog, a springer...but I'm not liking the look and size of the springers I'm seeing. I'm looking for a nice big old style springer, something i can use for rough shooting, pigeons and also fowling. does anybody know of any around? they seem to be as rare as rocking horse sh!$!

 

cheers!

[Lloyd90]

4 minutes ago, shotgunbully said:

Hi Im looking into getting another dog, a springer...but I'm not liking the look and size of the springers I'm seeing. I'm looking for a nice big old style springer, something i can use for rough shooting, pigeons and also fowling. does anybody know of any around? they seem to be as rare as rocking horse sh!$!

 

cheers!

 

I have seen lots of people CLAIM they have the “old type” springers, but when you see them in action, and I mean see them first hand actually on the job, they aren’t really a patch on some of the modern stuff. 
 

I also know lads who’ve used straws of “old type proper” dogs and run them alongside modern stuff, and they weren’t as good. 
 

What I would say is that there are modern bred dogs from different lines that are almost like different types / breeds. 
 

My young dog coming through is a totally different stamp to my older one, a lot more muscular, but square head, and by god he can shift. 
 

What lines / breeding have you looked at so far? 
 

I know a few modern lines that can produce big powerful animals. 
 

Personally I would just be very cautious of anyone offering “Old type” springers … those blood lines are long gone, and anyone claiming it is likely just spinning you a yarn for an easy sale.
 

Besides they are the “old type” for a reason… if they were so fantastic they would be the current type. 

[Dave at kelton]

Will ask around up here pal

[Stonepark]

Do you know Mark Wilson 9also of Burnley), I got my previous dog off him and was a good size? Limeylane, I think was his Kennel Club name

 

[shotgunbully]

51 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

I have seen lots of people CLAIM they have the “old type” springers, but when you see them in action, and I mean see them first hand actually on the job, they aren’t really a patch on some of the modern stuff. 
 

I also know lads who’ve used straws of “old type proper” dogs and run them alongside modern stuff, and they weren’t as good. 
 

What I would say is that there are modern bred dogs from different lines that are almost like different types / breeds. 
 

My young dog coming through is a totally different stamp to my older one, a lot more muscular, but square head, and by god he can shift. 
 

What lines / breeding have you looked at so far? 
 

I know a few modern lines that can produce big powerful animals. 
 

Personally I would just be very cautious of anyone offering “Old type” springers … those blood lines are long gone, and anyone claiming it is likely just spinning you a yarn for an easy sale.
 

Besides they are the “old type” for a reason… if they were so fantastic they would be the current type. 

What it is is i would prefer a bigger leggy spaniel, the vast majority of what i have seen are no bigger than cockers. I'm sure they are more than up to the job they do but i would like one bigger to cover the jobs i would need it for. i don't want something that would struggle to bring back geese. i have a chessie, she's great at the majority of what i use her for but doesn't cover the ground or bash the rough that a spaniel would when rough shooting if you know what i mean.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

Will ask around up here pal

Cheers dave hope your well mate.

[Krico woodcock]

Yes they are still about.  I have same line of Springer for near 30 years.  And I'm not going to start blowing smoke up their *****,but They get worked hard on ducks and woodcock all winter. They get the job done.  They are  big strong dogs. Full of drive  and stamina.. I am  breeding  my bitch next year, so I will be hopeful of a continuation of the breed that meet the criteria. But only problem is I am in Ireland!..

[Lloyd90]

3 hours ago, Krico woodcock said:

Yes they are still about.  I have same line of Springer for near 30 years.  And I'm not going to start blowing smoke up their *****,but They get worked hard on ducks and woodcock all winter. They get the job done.  They are  big strong dogs. Full of drive  and stamina.. I am  breeding  my bitch next year, so I will be hopeful of a continuation of the breed that meet the criteria. But only problem is I am in Ireland!..

There’s still dogs over there that are used like they used to be back in the day, the OP may be best to get over and get one of those pups 👍🏻 

 

Harder and harder to get rough shooting over here so not really surprising dogs with fantastic qualities for that type of work are harder to find. 

[scutt]

This is a dog from witchwillow/edwardiana  lines .He is a strong dog and a good size.

 

[Krico woodcock]

19 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

I have seen lots of people CLAIM they have the “old type” springers, but when you see them in action, and I mean see them first hand actually on the job, they aren’t really a patch on some of the modern stuff. 
 

I also know lads who’ve used straws of “old type proper” dogs and run them alongside modern stuff, and they weren’t as good. 
 

What I would say is that there are modern bred dogs from different lines that are almost like different types / breeds. 
 

My young dog coming through is a totally different stamp to my older one, a lot more muscular, but square head, and by god he can shift. 
 

What lines / breeding have you looked at so far? 
 

I know a few modern lines that can produce big powerful animals. 
 

Personally I would just be very cautious of anyone offering “Old type” springers … those blood lines are long gone, and anyone claiming it is likely just spinning you a yarn for an easy sale.
 

Besides they are the “old type” for a reason… if they were so fantastic they would be the current type. 

Hi lioyd90 a very fast hot field trial dog and a big working Springer are two different animals. And at this stage two different breeds. I seen lads with very fast field trial breed  dog's that were purchased because there was some small fault in them so wouldn't make a trial dog, but they were crazy hunting nothing in  green rushy fields! They would make you dizzy looking at them.  And some were very good hunters, but would burn out soon.  And seen plenty that were supposed to be the bees knees shooting dogs  but when I seen them in action  I'd be thinking " this isn't the dog I've been  told about " owners looking through rose tinted glasses..It's all  what you want in a dog. But what I want is a dog that will face any cover,  and stick at it till I'm finished.  Not until the dog is finished.  Same with duck duck shooting.  I shoot them,  dog retrieves them.  And never to refuse,  no matter what the conditions. My springers have a thick  curly coat,  which for water work and thorny briary cover is a big advantage for obvious reasons.. I like a dog hunting with a good pace,  and nice style,  but definitely not doing doughnuts round my feet. When I breed my bitch next year, and  hopefully it works out,  it will be to keep breed going,  and it will be a hard decision as who gets a pup. And there will be a few disappointed lads. Its definitely will not be a breeding for money making exercise.  And if I knew someone across the  water that was a genuine shooting man,  that would give a dog plenty of work and look after it well I'd be glad to see a pup go across to him. 

[shotgunbully]

On 31/03/2023 at 19:38, Krico woodcock said:

Yes they are still about.  I have same line of Springer for near 30 years.  And I'm not going to start blowing smoke up their *****,but They get worked hard on ducks and woodcock all winter. They get the job done.  They are  big strong dogs. Full of drive  and stamina.. I am  breeding  my bitch next year, so I will be hopeful of a continuation of the breed that meet the criteria. But only problem is I am in Ireland!..

It seems most are over your way, I had a gamekeeper friend over there, who also had spaniels. Unfortunately he passed away last year otherwise I would have been straight onto him. I'm not in a mad rush as I want to find the tight kind of dog. Yours do sound like the type I'm looking for 👍

22 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

There’s still dogs over there that are used like they used to be back in the day, the OP may be best to get over and get one of those pups 👍🏻 

 

Harder and harder to get rough shooting over here so not really surprising dogs with fantastic qualities for that type of work are harder to find. 

The majority of my shooting is rough and fowling, probably 60/40 split. I've been keeping an eye out for the Irish spaniels 

[Krico woodcock]

Just a small word of caution,  there is plenty of lads in Ireland touting their dog's as the best in Ireland,  especially on Facebook,  in layman's language blowing about their dog's,  not saying they aren't clinkers, these lads pups all seem to work out and every pup in the litter are Trojans to work,  but in reality if there is say 8 pups in a litter and mother and father are top working dogs, there definitely will be some serious pups to turn into mighty dogs,  but also high chance there is going to be a pup or 2 wont make the grade. just do your homework.. good luck 👍

[Lloyd90]

On 01/04/2023 at 10:18, Krico woodcock said:

Hi lioyd90 a very fast hot field trial dog and a big working Springer are two different animals. And at this stage two different breeds. I seen lads with very fast field trial breed  dog's that were purchased because there was some small fault in them so wouldn't make a trial dog, but they were crazy hunting nothing in  green rushy fields! They would make you dizzy looking at them.  And some were very good hunters, but would burn out soon.  And seen plenty that were supposed to be the bees knees shooting dogs  but when I seen them in action  I'd be thinking " this isn't the dog I've been  told about " owners looking through rose tinted glasses..It's all  what you want in a dog. But what I want is a dog that will face any cover,  and stick at it till I'm finished.  Not until the dog is finished.  Same with duck duck shooting.  I shoot them,  dog retrieves them.  And never to refuse,  no matter what the conditions. My springers have a thick  curly coat,  which for water work and thorny briary cover is a big advantage for obvious reasons.. I like a dog hunting with a good pace,  and nice style,  but definitely not doing doughnuts round my feet. When I breed my bitch next year, and  hopefully it works out,  it will be to keep breed going,  and it will be a hard decision as who gets a pup. And there will be a few disappointed lads. Its definitely will not be a breeding for money making exercise.  And if I knew someone across the  water that was a genuine shooting man,  that would give a dog plenty of work and look after it well I'd be glad to see a pup go across to him. 

 

Not arguing for the record quite enjoying the discussion  

There seems to be a big variance between differnt lines, from my admittedly limited experience, even different trialling lines can be very different, so the idea that lines that have been bred from worker to worker for generation without any emphasiss on trialling is likely to procude the type of dogs that you say  

 

I also think it varies depending on what you want the dog for. I have seen similar complaints mentioned about crazy hunting dogs in rushy fields. Lads buy them who want to hunt woodland with thick bramble then complain if they don't smash cover. Yet there's lads out there who lived up North, go rough shooting week in week out, have no interest in trials, yet will have similar type dogs who will hunt rushy fields for them. 

I have seen people say "those Northern rabbit dogs aren't any good", but who are they to say the dogs no good. If you live up Cumbria or Yorkshire and want a springer who'll hunt rabbits for the gun that thay may be your dream dog! 

 

I like the dog that you describe, its the type of dog that suits the type of work that you do. I aim to bring over a similar type dog from Ireland one day to train and shoot over and see how it compares but he a fair while yet, got 2 years before I move house and have space to put some proper kennels up. 

On 02/04/2023 at 10:34, Krico woodcock said:

Just a small word of caution,  there is plenty of lads in Ireland touting their dog's as the best in Ireland,  especially on Facebook,  in layman's language blowing about their dog's,  not saying they aren't clinkers, these lads pups all seem to work out and every pup in the litter are Trojans to work,  but in reality if there is say 8 pups in a litter and mother and father are top working dogs, there definitely will be some serious pups to turn into mighty dogs,  but also high chance there is going to be a pup or 2 wont make the grade. just do your homework.. good luck 👍

 

Good advice again  

[archi]

Might be worth contacting Steven Roberts (towerbird gundogs) he is I believe based at saffron Walden and always liked and kept the larger springer which form memory had good drive and plenty of colour

[harkom]

On 05/04/2023 at 18:37, archi said:

Might be worth contacting Steven Roberts (towerbird gundogs) he is I believe based at saffron Walden and always liked and kept the larger springer which form memory had good drive and plenty of colour

 

On 05/04/2023 at 18:37, archi said:

Might be worth contacting Steven Roberts (towerbird gundogs) he is I believe based at saffron Walden and always liked and kept the larger springer which form memory had good drive and plenty of colour

THIS ^^^^

[ninjaferret]

Back in the day i had "Toon Army" bloodlines, now them dogs could work. Don't know if they're still about.

[matone]

There`s a reason for the increasing amount of GWP`s and GWP/spaniel crosses on most upland shoots and the modern trial bred springer is it!