Hortonium lead shot alternative

[old'un]

Found this article by Horton & Sons Birmingham, dated 3 April 2023.

Some of you may already be familiar with this alternative to steel/lead, but a first for me.

Hortonium lead shot alternative drop test…https://www.hortonguns.com/?p=688

Lead shot ban, pah! Old news...https://www.hortonguns.com/?p=671

[stu64]

very interesting article👍

[PeterHenry]

I don't work far from Hortons. I haven't been in yet, due to fears about walking out with another gun - but this looks like an entirely legitimate excuse for a visit.

[old'un]

52 minutes ago, PeterHenry said:

I don't work far from Hortons. I haven't been in yet, due to fears about walking out with another gun - but this looks like an entirely legitimate excuse for a visit.

when I was a lot younger and the “gun quarter” was the “gun quarter” I spent hours around the different workshops and gun-shops, do you know Gary Clark?

[PeterHenry]

2 minutes ago, old'un said:

when I was a lot younger and the “gun quarter” was the “gun quarter” I spent hours around the different workshops and gun-shops, do you know Gary Clark?

I don't / at least am not aware that I know him. 

I have heard quite a few accounts of the gun quarter as it was though. A shame that so much of its gone.

[old'un]

12 minutes ago, PeterHenry said:

I don't / at least am not aware that I know him. 

I have heard quite a few accounts of the gun quarter as it was though. A shame that so much of its gone.

it was a hive of activity with most of the buildings having one-man band workshops with bigger workshops in between, one of my favourite places to visit was Benjamin Wilds, Price Street, Ben Wild was a proper character, liked his fags and a drink.

there was some talk by B,Ham council about changing the name as they did not want the area associated with guns.

Edited May 4, 2023 by old'un

[PeterHenry]

19 minutes ago, old'un said:

it was a hive of activity with most of the buildings having one-man band workshops with bigger workshops in between, one of my favourite places to visit was Benjamin Wilds, Price Street, Ben Wild was a proper character, liked his fags and a drink.

there was some talk by B,Ham council about changing the name as they did not want the area associated with guns.

It's a constant source of irritation to me that there's hardly any reference to the gun quarter in Birmingham.

Infact, one of my brummie colleagues who is - I think - 23 didn't know anything about Birminghams role in the gun trade.

Anyway, I get irriated about it and I'm not even from anywhere near Birmingham....

[old'un]

5 minutes ago, PeterHenry said:

It's a constant source of irritation to me that there's hardly any reference to the gun quarter in Birmingham.

Infact, one of my brummie colleagues who is - I think - 23 didn't know anything about Birminghams role in the gun trade.

Anyway, I get irriated about it and I'm not even from anywhere near Birmingham....

I was trying to remember the gun-maker/shop in Bath Street (think it was Gailons?) so did a Google search (gun-makers Birmingham 1960) now I don't know if this is a signs of the times but most, if not nearly all the search results were links to books, very few about the history of the Birmingham gun trade.

Only thing that was of some interest was The Birmingham History Forum...https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/gun-trade-factories.37087/

Edited May 4, 2023 by old'un

[London Best]

33 minutes ago, old'un said:

 

there was some talk by B,Ham council about changing the name as they did not want the area associated with guns.

Absolutely disgusting attitude, typical woke, holier than thou councillors. 
Don’t vote, it only encourages them.

I remember Ben Wild, with his fag, in his little upstairs workshop with the hole in the window for test firing guns over the rooftops.

[old'un]

8 minutes ago, London Best said:

Absolutely disgusting attitude, typical woke, holier than thou councillors. 
Don’t vote, it only encourages them.

I remember Ben Wild, with his fag, in his little upstairs workshop with the hole in the window for test firing guns over the rooftops.

yep, Ben was either in the workshop or the Bull pub.

you would have known Colin (Bens son) and Brian (barrel blacker) and John Harris (stocker) Colin died of cancer a few years back

do you you remember the gunshop in Bath Street, they used to convert old .303 rifles to .410 shotguns, think I paid £25 for one in the early 70s.

[enfieldspares]

2 hours ago, old'un said:

Do you know Gary Clark?

What late of Slow Gun Services? Yes, once upon a time, unfortunately.

[old'un]

1 hour ago, enfieldspares said:

What late of Slow Gun Services? Yes, once upon a time, unfortunately.

you do know him then.

[matone]

4 hours ago, old'un said:

I was trying to remember the gun-maker/shop in Bath Street (think it was Gailons?) so did a Google search (gun-makers Birmingham 1960) now I don't know if this is a signs of the times but most, if not nearly all the search results were links to books, very few about the history of the Birmingham gun trade.

Only thing that was of some interest was The Birmingham History Forum...https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/gun-trade-factories.37087/

Bailons probably.

[enfieldspares]

2 hours ago, old'un said:

you do know him then.

Oh yes.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by enfieldspares

[Genghis]

On 04/05/2023 at 14:19, London Best said:

Absolutely disgusting attitude, typical woke, holier than thou councillors. 
Don’t vote, it only encourages them.

I remember Ben Wild, with his fag, in his little upstairs workshop with the hole in the window for test firing guns over the rooftops.

It was back in 2011, a church group had petitioned for it (50 members in total). 4500 filed a counter-petition and the name stayed.

[old'un]

11 hours ago, Genghis said:

It was back in 2011, a church group had petitioned for it (50 members in total). 4500 filed a counter-petition and the name stayed.

blimey, I remember it being in the news but did not think it was it that long ago, again, there were calls about 5-6 years ago by Conservative Cllr Peter Douglas Osborn to change the name to the “Gun Makers’ Quarter” dont know what happened to that attempt but obviously did not happen.

feedback from the public 2011...https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-14341077

Don't know why these people think they have the right to erase/change history because some small woke group starts rattling their cage.

[GunQuarter]

We are nearing completion of our first deal to see Hortonium produced and marketed. See our latest post as Hortonium offers an alternative for smaller gauges.

https://www.hortonguns.com/?p=716

[Gordon R]

Interesting read. Please keep us informed of future progress and good luck.

[Old farrier]

33 minutes ago, GunQuarter said:

We are nearing completion of our first deal to see Hortonium produced and marketed. See our latest post as Hortonium offers an alternative for smaller gauges.

https://www.hortonguns.com/?p=716

Very interesting 

thank you for posting 😊👍

now the sad part do you have a price for any of these cartridges 

hopefully they will be available and affordable for the small bore enthusiasts 😊

[GunQuarter]

They will be c10% cheaper than Bismuth. I know that is expensive and it won't be for everyone, but if you prefer to shoot an old English gun vs a lower priced Turkish etc gun then it will be far kinder on you and your gun. It also works exactly like lead so kills are cleaner.

[rbrowning2]

1 hour ago, GunQuarter said:

We are nearing completion of our first deal to see Hortonium produced and marketed. See our latest post as Hortonium offers an alternative for smaller gauges.

https://www.hortonguns.com/?p=716

No credible lead free alternative exists in 410, 28 gauge or 16 gauge other than maybe Bismuth, which we have proven doesn’t work

Would you like to explain why you have reached the conclusion bismuth doesn’t work, other than price TSS is a credible alternative in .410 and 28gauge.

[enfieldspares]

I would day, myself, that if it wasn't so damned expensive I'd actually use bismuth in preference to lead as I think it patterns better and kills better. I know it's daft (as the reverse can be argued) but it has the velocity advantage of steel but with the pellet weight advantage of lead. 

[GunQuarter]

2 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

No credible lead free alternative exists in 410, 28 gauge or 16 gauge other than maybe Bismuth, which we have proven doesn’t work

Would you like to explain why you have reached the conclusion bismuth doesn’t work, other than price TSS is a credible alternative in .410 and 28gauge.

Yes by all means. It should actually read not work very well.

1. It shatters very easily. In a test We counted shot of ten cartridges to get an average pellet count. We then **** 10 through full choke into Ballistic clay at 10 metres. Then counted the pellets. 33.6% were lost as they'd shatter in the barrel or in the air in that distance. So a 30g load becomes 20g. That was using a very modern Bismuth cartridge from a highly regarded British manufacturer.

2. Game dealers are starting to refuse birds shot with Bismuth because it shatters. So if we can't get it into the food chain, it isn't great alternative to lead if no one will buy birds shot with it. That is increasing all the time.

1 hour ago, enfieldspares said:

I would day, myself, that if it wasn't so damned expensive I'd actually use bismuth in preference to lead as I think it patterns better and kills better. I know it's daft (as the reverse can be argued) but it has the velocity advantage of steel but with the pellet weight advantage of lead. 

Each to own. In tests we've found it shatters. But it does depend on load, choke and FPS of the shot

[enfieldspares]

21 minutes ago, GunQuarter said:

Each to own. In tests we've found it shatters. But it does depend on load, choke and FPS of the shot

12 bore, 2 1/2" cartridges, Eley #5 bismuth, 1 1/8 ounce in my late father's Henry Clarke, both barrels taken out from their quite tight chokes to IMP and IMP when Malcolm Cruxton was still on Price Street and still did choke boring.

[rbrowning2]

2 hours ago, GunQuarter said:

Yes by all means. It should actually read not work very well.

1. It shatters very easily. In a test We counted shot of ten cartridges to get an average pellet count. We then **** 10 through full choke into Ballistic clay at 10 metres. Then counted the pellets. 33.6% were lost as they'd shatter in the barrel or in the air in that distance. So a 30g load becomes 20g. That was using a very modern Bismuth cartridge from a highly regarded British manufacturer.

2. Game dealers are starting to refuse birds shot with Bismuth because it shatters. So if we can't get it into the food chain, it isn't great alternative to lead if no one will buy birds shot with it. That is increasing all the time.

Each to own. In tests we've found it shatters. But it does depend on load, choke and FPS of the shot

10 meters ? really who shoots game at 10 meters, you could not put a birds shot at 10 meters into the food chain, is it shattering at 30 meters ?

Modern bismuth shot now has a lot more tin in it to stop the shattering, did you check with the cartridge manufacture from the batch number how recent they are ? as i bet they sit on the shelf for quite a long time given their price.

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by rbrowning2