Most people do 2nd 3rd jobs to make ends meet , are MPs doing the same 🤔🤔

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

The prospects for anyone under forty having anything like I had when I was younger without a high flying job is non existent.

Again I'll have to disagree,  it will depend on where you live and what you describe as high flying job, I never earned over 30k up until probably ten years ago and that's Probably seen as a poor wage by many.

Look at Location, location, location,  you can watch that and be mind blown by the cost of some of the houses and the money some folk ( young and old) have to spend.

Thinking back, I've had multiple jobs in the past,  a long time ago,  when I was an apprentice and when I had things I wanted to pay off.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, having more than one job is more common than people realise from watching the BBC 2 phone in this morning but for some the alternative is theft from supermarkets, 🤔

[12gauge82]

53 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Again I'll have to disagree,  it will depend on where you live and what you describe as high flying job, I never earned over 30k up until probably ten years ago and that's Probably seen as a poor wage by many.

Look at Location, location, location,  you can watch that and be mind blown by the cost of some of the houses and the money some folk ( young and old) have to spend.

Thinking back, I've had multiple jobs in the past,  a long time ago,  when I was an apprentice and when I had things I wanted to pay off.

That's okay, disagree away 👍.

The average uk house price is now 286k the average full time salary is somewhere between 30-40k (which a couple can't both earn if they want children), the average salary is probably vastly less in many areas and also if you take the average not including the top -1% of earners. 

I would say the young are now left with a choice of buying a decent house and struggling for the rest of their working lives getting ends to meet. Or choosing to live in cramped accommodation/not owning a house and getting to have a family and enjoy some life. This wasn't anywhere near such a big problem when I was making my way in the world.

[Mice!]

35 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

The average uk house price is now 286k the average

That may be an average,  but it's massively pumped up by prices in the south,  people don't need to start in a nice 3 bed house.

37 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

would say the young are now left with a choice of buying a decent house and struggling for the rest of their working lives getting ends to meet. Or choosing to live in cramped accommodation/not owning a house and getting to have a family and enjoy some life. This wasn't anywhere near such a big problem when I was making my way in the world.

Things are definitely a lot different to 20 or 30 years ago when I started working and looking at houses, but they were different to when my folks did the same, we all manage.

[old'un]

in1979 the average house price was around four times the average salary.

Today the average house is nearly 10 times the average salary.

[Yellow Bear]

28 minutes ago, old'un said:

n1979 the average house price was around four times the average salary

But a lot of folks forget that interest rate was 15 to 17% and and income tax was 35p in the pound

[old'un]

20 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

But a lot of folks forget that interest rate was 15 to 17% and and income tax was 35p in the pound

tell me about it, over 50% of my monthly salary was on our mortgage repayments.

[Yellow Bear]

22 minutes ago, old'un said:

tell me about it, over 50% of my monthly salary was on our mortgage repayments.

Tell me about it inc NI 40% to hmg then 50% of remainder to mortgage payment.

[Bigbob]

12 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

Tell me about it inc NI 40% to hmg then 50% of remainder to mortgage payment.

WE used to moan at paying £200 a month and that was overpaying it to get it done with by the time i was 55 LOL 

The good old times 

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, Mice! said:

That may be an average,  but it's massively pumped up by prices in the south,  people don't need to start in a nice 3 bed house.

Things are definitely a lot different to 20 or 30 years ago when I started working and looking at houses, but they were different to when my folks did the same, we all manage.

People don't need to start in a 3 bed but you'll need one eventually if you want a family. Don't forget most people don't start on an average salary either and are probably into their 30s or 40s before climbing the pay scale.

I think that's the problem, the young now are no longer managing.

[Mungler]

The cost of housing has altered our society in that it now takes 2 people in full time jobs to meet the housing cost and that means putting off having a family until later, and smaller families / fewer children as houses are smaller and women have to get back to work.

Also, the older generation is living longer and that leads to capital / inheritance and housing stock lock up - by my age, my parents had lost both their parents.

Add in we are a grossly over populated country now. Ok you can still buy a cheap house in the arm pit of Wales / Scotland but no one wants live there.

The stated population of England is 58,000,000. I don’t believe that for one moment but let’s run with that. The stated current population of the whole of France is 64,000,000 and yet England (not the Uk) is approximately 1/4 the size of France.

Add in the easy supply of cheap money (it is the supply of money that stretches out the distance between salary / actual income and house prices) and we are where we are.

We are now back in the 70’s. At the start of the 70’s you could get a shirt from Marks and Spencer for a couple of pounds and at the end, it was a tenner and it never went back down. Like the Freddo chocolate bar index.

Inflation actually helps capital assets over time (especially when real world inflation runs higher than interest rates).

Everyone can remember their first house / flat right? Mine was a 2 bedder for £94k and the debt scared the life out of me. That flat now is £400k and to just build it in this moment, well that couldn’t be done for less than £300k. 

We are at a pinnacle moment in time where everything is going to jump up in price and those prices won’t come back down. 

Top end property will tumble a fair bit but anything under £400k, well, you couldn’t get the men and materials to rebuild most properties in that range for what they’d sell for right now with the price of Labour and materials where they are right now.

Edit

I know some construction material prices are stabilising - I wouldn’t say they were much reducing and the price of construction continues to rise.

We’ve blinked and building regs have changed and the planning process is now so drawn out and expensive - I’ve put in for an infill for a super small 2 bed house (meets min requirements and nothing more) and I reckon I am £30k+ into bore holes, soil testing reports, a sunlight report, basement impact assessment report, heritage report, construction impact plan and not to mention architects, structural engineers and a planning consultant, and that’s just for a 2 bedroom shoebox infill in a london borough. I would add I am 4 months into the process and as the time on the application runs out, on the last day the planners ask for another BS report. In the old days I could get outline permission and these reports then conditioned - I would at least know I was going to get the nod before lashing out on all these daft reports. And don’t get me started on the latest regs - oh it’s all heat pumps and rabid green nonsense.

No wonder we have a housing crisis. I digress.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Mungler

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, Mungler said:

We’ve blinked and building regs have changed and the planning process is now so drawn out and expensive - I’ve put in for an infill for a super small 2 bed house (meets min requirements and nothing more) and I reckon I am £30k+ into bore holes, soil testing reports, a sunlight report, basement impact assessment report, heritage report, construction impact plan and not to mention architects, structural engineers and a planning consultant, and that’s just for a 2 bedroom shoebox infill in a london borough

Is that because it's London??

We did a big extension last year without any real hassle from planning etc

[Mungler]

8 hours ago, Mice! said:

Is that because it's London??

We did a big extension last year without any real hassle from planning etc

‘Permitted development rights’ took a big bite of planner power and unless you’re in a conservation area or want something out of keeping / that your neighbours will rabidly object to then you’re going to be fine on most domestic residential stuff.

All of the planning departments in the south east (London boroughs or county councils) are swamped and drowning under sheer weight of applications. Then factor in high turnover of staff and red tape and it’s seriously hard to get anything done. 

 

[RyanMc]

38 now, no mortgage since 2020, i bought in 2009 when prices were much more palatable , cars paid for in 2020. Had a 2nd and sometimes 3rd job since 18years old. Decent job >£40k + bonuses so not suffering too badly. The extra pays for the extras, insurance etc. and leaves the wages for the most part to be saved, or spent on the essentials.

First holiday in 7years in a fortnight, no subscriptions, don't smoke, rarely drink, do the lions share of my car maintenance/fixing & much of the work around the house.

It can be done, but takes a level of sacrifice, dedication and will to succeed... much of which I see a lot of others don't have!

My Father worked x2 jobs, my mother worked shift work in nursing homes and a mental health hospital until a car accident forced early retirement.

 

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, Mungler said:

All of the planning departments in the south east (London boroughs or county councils) are swamped and drowning under sheer weight of applications. Then factor in high turnover of staff and red tape and it’s seriously hard to get anything done. 

Yet building costs are higher than ever and the media would like us to believe that everyone is struggling, despite every street you go down doing building work.

[Mungler]

11 hours ago, Mice! said:

Yet building costs are higher than ever and the media would like us to believe that everyone is struggling, despite every street you go down doing building work.

Indeed. Roads full of trades vans round my way.

All that free covid money sloshing about - is it any wonder we have rampant inflation?

[Aled]

Must say tradespeople around where i live are very busy, if you want work done you are looking at 12 months before they can contemplate starting.  So somebody has money to spare and somebody is making money along the way.