Labour Party in complete DISARRAY

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, amateur said:

@JohnfromUK

 

I wouldn't disagree with your amendments.

My point is that, whatever the failings of the current lot in power, history tells us that Labour would be much, much worse.

And I completely agree.  I also believe that - on a more personal focus - Labour would be worse for me as;

1. A pensioner paying tax with both pension and savings income and on no 'benefits'.
2. A countryside resident living in an old and 'larger' property
3. A landowner (in a very small way)
4. A motorist
5. Someone who enjoys fieldsports (shooting and fishing in my case)
6. Shotgun owner.

[oowee]

27 minutes ago, amateur said:

@JohnfromUK

 

I wouldn't disagree with your amendments.

My point is that, whatever the failings of the current lot in power, history tells us that Labour would be much, much worse.

Its all in your perspective. 

These differences are not statistically significant, but the discrepancy between mean and median hints at the presence of outliers of particularly strong or weak quarters in the data that are skewing the mean averages. In fact, Labour have achieved a higher concentration of quarters of positive growth than the Conservatives. Indeed, despite the 2008-09 recession taking place on Labour’s watch, the party has only overseen seven quarters of recession in the past 100 years compared to 17 under the Conservatives.

If we disregard the global financial crisis as an external shock, Labour has presided over just two recession quarters since 1955, and has produced average annualised growth of 2.66%. If we similarly disregard the three quarters following the 1973 oil shock that took place under the Conservative administration of Ted Heath, his party has presided over 14 recession quarters and 2.65% of average annualised growth. You can also see the performance of specific governments since 1955, as shown by the average annualised growth numbers, in the graph below.

Edited November 20, 2023 by oowee

[amateur]

35 minutes ago, oowee said:

Its all in your perspective. 

These differences are not statistically significant, but the discrepancy between mean and median hints at the presence of outliers of particularly strong or weak quarters in the data that are skewing the mean averages. In fact, Labour have achieved a higher concentration of quarters of positive growth than the Conservatives. Indeed, despite the 2008-09 recession taking place on Labour’s watch, the party has only overseen seven quarters of recession in the past 100 years compared to 17 under the Conservatives.

If we disregard the global financial crisis as an external shock, Labour has presided over just two recession quarters since 1955, and has produced average annualised growth of 2.66%. If we similarly disregard the three quarters following the 1973 oil shock that took place under the Conservative administration of Ted Heath, his party has presided over 14 recession quarters and 2.65% of average annualised growth. You can also see the performance of specific governments since 1955, as shown by the average annualised growth numbers, in the graph below.

Lies, damned lies and statistics!

All I know is that Labour governments have always taxed me more, previously introduced more bureaucracy into my then working life and certainly mucked up my teenage years when they renationalised steel, disrupting my father's plans to build a steel works.

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, amateur said:

Lies, damned lies and statistics!

Growth can be simply due to inflation and is also much influenced by the it's calculated.  When the statistics are unfavourable, Gov't (all colours) have a habit of changing the way these things are measured.

Labour have generally a poor record on unemployment increasing during their time in office - and that is a big thing for those who actually cast the votes.

[oowee]

45 minutes ago, amateur said:

Lies, damned lies and statistics!

All I know is that Labour governments have always taxed me more, previously introduced more bureaucracy into my then working life and certainly mucked up my teenage years when they renationalised steel, disrupting my father's plans to build a steel works.

That's clearly not true if you are working now. Tax has never been higher than it is now. 

[amateur]

23 minutes ago, oowee said:

That's clearly not true if you are working now. Tax has never been higher than it is now. 

Long retired and only paying standard rate on the pensions that I had received higher tax relief on during the high tax Labour years and benefitting from a triple lock increase to my pension introduced by a government headed by a  Conservative Prime Minister

Edited November 20, 2023 by amateur
Clarification

[Gordon R]

Whilst the Tories are hardly brilliant, the worry is that Labour hasn't a clue about economics. 

Labour's:-

Liam Byrne

Diane Abbott

Jeremy Corbyn

Natalie Fleet

I would have more confidence in them if they disclosed the location of the money tree.

 

 

[oowee]

I like Labours proposals for independent financial oversight and reporting. It would put paid to the likes of Trussonomics before they even started. Regardless of party in power this should be part of the foundation of govt. 

We need more transparency re party / individual funding its clear there is russian money rooted for influence. 

[amateur]

11 minutes ago, oowee said:

.......We need more transparency re party / individual funding its clear there is russian money rooted for influence. 

Another reason not to let the lefties in.

[Red696]

Is this thread sponsored by the Daily Mail or the Guardian? Asking for a friend…

[12gauge82]

4 hours ago, oowee said:

6% on food prices for non tariff barriers. £5.8 billion costs on food alone. 

Take a look at the government document on brexit benefits, it's a 105 pages long and obviously too big to post here, but the size of the document alone shows how many achievements have already been made and how many are planned. I'll cut and paste the conclusions from it below.

 

Two years ago, we started a whole new chapter for our country, our economy and our 
people. Whilst the Covid pandemic has necessarily occupied the work of government over 
much of this time, our work on seizing the opportunities of Brexit has progressed at pace. 
Some of these opportunities have already materialised—in this document, we have set out 
a range of our achievements so far across a number of key policy areas, with a real impact 
on businesses and citizens. Looking ahead, we are setting out a clear agenda for 
changing how we regulate and drive our economy forward—including how we will reform 
our regulatory framework, rethink how some of our regulators operate and review retained 
EU law. This will give us the best platform to capitalise on our regulatory freedoms for the 
long term. We now have the freedom to be the best regulated economy in the world and to 
make policy choices that are designed for the UK, bringing growth and opportunity across 
the nation, in all sectors of the economy, and enhancing our security and global 
partnerships. Reforms in science, data and technology; business and industry; 
infrastructure and levelling up; climate, the environment and agriculture; and a Global 
Britain are testament to the significance and momentum of our post-Brexit reform agenda. 
This is a hugely exciting time for our country, one filled with potential and opportunity. We 
will seize the incredible opportunities that our freedom presents and use them to build 
back better than ever before—making our businesses more competitive and our people 
more prosperous and more secure. The bolder we are, the greater the gains will be for us 
all. And—as this document demonstrates —this is a government that possesses the 
ambition and determination the UK needs to succeed now and for many years to come. 
We will go further, faster and forward to achieve our vision for the UK in these areas, 
building on what we have already achieved.

Edited November 20, 2023 by 12gauge82

[chrisv]

The great PFI heist: The real story of how Britain's economy has been left high and dry by a doomed economic philosophy

 

PFI debt for the British taxpayer is more than £300bn for infrastructure projects, with a value of £54.7bn. To put it into perspective, the PFI debt is four times the size of the budget deficit used to justify austerity
(From the Independent, Bliar and Brown’s legacy)

Labour worked out how to make themselves look good and leave the debt for others to  sort out 

[Pushandpull]

PFI was initiated by the Tories under Major and extended under Labour so you can apportion blame according to your personal beliefs, It was not a brilliant idea then and now.

[chrisv]

6 minutes ago, Pushandpull said:

PFI was initiated by the Tories under Major and extended under Labour so you can apportion blame according to your personal beliefs, It was not a brilliant idea then and now.

Yes, that’s true, but Labour went nuts with PFI.

The hospitals were also very badly built. Our local one had a wishing well for years from the leaking roof. 

[oowee]

50 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Take a look at the government document on brexit benefits, it's a 105 pages long and obviously too big to post here, but the size of the document alone shows how many achievements have already been made and how many are planned. I'll cut and paste the conclusions from it below.

 

Two years ago, we started a whole new chapter for our country, our economy and our 
people. Whilst the Covid pandemic has necessarily occupied the work of government over 
much of this time, our work on seizing the opportunities of Brexit has progressed at pace. 
Some of these opportunities have already materialised—in this document, we have set out 
a range of our achievements so far across a number of key policy areas, with a real impact 
on businesses and citizens. Looking ahead, we are setting out a clear agenda for 
changing how we regulate and drive our economy forward—including how we will reform 
our regulatory framework, rethink how some of our regulators operate and review retained 
EU law. This will give us the best platform to capitalise on our regulatory freedoms for the 
long term. We now have the freedom to be the best regulated economy in the world and to 
make policy choices that are designed for the UK, bringing growth and opportunity across 
the nation, in all sectors of the economy, and enhancing our security and global 
partnerships. Reforms in science, data and technology; business and industry; 
infrastructure and levelling up; climate, the environment and agriculture; and a Global 
Britain are testament to the significance and momentum of our post-Brexit reform agenda. 
This is a hugely exciting time for our country, one filled with potential and opportunity. We 
will seize the incredible opportunities that our freedom presents and use them to build 
back better than ever before—making our businesses more competitive and our people 
more prosperous and more secure. The bolder we are, the greater the gains will be for us 
all. And—as this document demonstrates —this is a government that possesses the 
ambition and determination the UK needs to succeed now and for many years to come. 
We will go further, faster and forward to achieve our vision for the UK in these areas, 
building on what we have already achieved.

So nowt then. 

[old man]

18 hours ago, oowee said:

If you have a normal job and/or a private pension/savings you have already been robbed by the current door handles. We have the highest level of tax ever under this lot and the lowest level of services ever. Ok it was not their fault that we had covid and Brexit but they have done their utmost to make us poorer as a result. Johnson, Truss for goodness sake what does it take for people to see this???????

 

An immutable fact?

[12gauge82]

5 hours ago, oowee said:

So nowt then. 

Did you read the document, there's 110 pages of benefits 🤔

[oowee]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

Did you read the document, there's 110 pages of benefits 🤔

I just read the bit you posted which i presumed to be highlights 😁

[Mice!]

On 19/11/2023 at 15:08, 12gauge82 said:

Turns the question on its head, what's the point in voting for a party you know will change nothing. You may as well not bother voting.

 

On 19/11/2023 at 18:04, Red696 said:

it is a sad fact the 2 main parties are no better than each other, so my vote will have to go with whatever party offers the least worst impact on my families living standards.  

How often have people on here said how glad we are Labour aren't in power,  they would have crippled the country during covid, and sadly they couldn't give a fig about anyone living in the countryside or those of us who enjoy shooting etc...

All well and good people wanting change, but what are reform actually likely to achieve??

Be careful what you wish for, more of the same might well be better than Labour and their magic money tree.