dainty duck Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 12 minutes ago, Miserableolgit said: Spain has wanted to claim back Gibraltar for very many years, likewise the Argentinians with regards the Falklands. yes but according to the news yesterday they are at it again . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted April 24 Author Report Share Posted April 24 37 minutes ago, Miserableolgit said: Spain has wanted to claim back Gibraltar for very many years, likewise the Argentinians with regards the Falklands. same with palerstine....everybody wants something.....twiawan........Ukraine......nepal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty2006 Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 I think the west is very vulnerable at the moment. When you look at how much kit and bodies the Ruskies have actually lost in the Ukraine war, yet haven’t scaled back their operations, it’s quite worrying. Putin looks for an excuse to have to “defend Russia” from NATO, and Russia is built of corruption, lies, passing the blame, and sheer man power. I am all for the UK spending as much coin as possible on defence and equipment, because you never know. All these countries popping off at each other are looking for weaknesses and opportunities to start a fight. But like said above, if conscription came in in this country, the wokes and the weirdos will hide under rocks while the large forces roll through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 Hi Looking back at WW2 - the Russians over-run German Military Forces by sheer weight of numbers.........The T34 tank was poor in terms of engineering, but the numbers that came out of the factories, overcame any engineering/quality on the German side. It will come down to how long the West can accommodate 'military assistance' (always with the fall-back that Ukraine has to payback over many years (nothing free - hey?) - we in the UK only just paid back the Amerikans not many years back for the 'assistance' in WW2..... Attrition comes to mind - when does a 'cause' (policy/belief et all) start loosing you money......... L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty2006 Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 2 minutes ago, Loki said: Hi Looking back at WW2 - the Russians over-run German Military Forces by sheer weight of numbers.........The T34 tank was poor in terms of engineering, but the numbers that came out of the factories, overcame any engineering/quality on the German side. It will come down to how long the West can accommodate 'military assistance' (always with the fall-back that Ukraine has to payback over many years (nothing free - hey?) - we in the UK only just paid back the Amerikans not many years back for the 'assistance' in WW2..... Attrition comes to mind - when does a 'cause' (policy/belief et all) start loosing you money......... L That is the only way Putin will win, by attrition. He will keep throwing meat into the grinder regardless of peoples opinions or views, as anyone apposing him conveniently falls out of high rise buildings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 18 minutes ago, sutty2006 said: That is the only way Putin will win, by attrition. He will keep throwing meat into the grinder regardless of peoples opinions or views The real problem will be what happens after any so called 'win'. Just like Afghanistan there will be continual 'resistance' activity against the 'occupying forces' that will go on effectively forever. Neither Russia or 'the West' could actually 'win' Afghanistan. Ukraine (though different) will have a similar issue for the Russians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty2006 Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 10 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: The real problem will be what happens after any so called 'win'. Just like Afghanistan there will be continual 'resistance' activity against the 'occupying forces' that will go on effectively forever. Neither Russia or 'the West' could actually 'win' Afghanistan. Ukraine (though different) will have a similar issue for the Russians. Quite rightly so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, Loki said: Hi Looking back at WW2 - the Russians over-run German Military Forces by sheer weight of numbers.........The T34 tank was poor in terms of engineering, but the numbers that came out of the factories, overcame any engineering/quality on the German side. It will come down to how long the West can accommodate 'military assistance' (always with the fall-back that Ukraine has to payback over many years (nothing free - hey?) - we in the UK only just paid back the Amerikans not many years back for the 'assistance' in WW2..... Attrition comes to mind - when does a 'cause' (policy/belief et all) start loosing you money......... L Yes don't forget the arms money and supply that were supplied by the allies, Russian could have been defeated without the aid given. Edited April 24 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 12 hours ago, dainty duck said: There was talk yesterday about Spain wanting to claim back Gibraltar and the Argentinians are after the Falklands again ! Of course they are, looking at the laughable state we are in, it's the ideal time? Possibly they have had lobbyists behind the scenes working towards that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 28 minutes ago, old man said: Of course they are, looking at the laughable state we are in, it's the ideal time? Possibly they have had lobbyists behind the scenes working towards that? Any move like this should be based solely on the wishes of the inhabitants, not any woke or political agenda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 14 hours ago, Yellow Bear said: Any move like this should be based solely on the wishes of the inhabitants, not any woke or political agenda It's not the wishes of the inhabitants of this country that will decide the matter. It is the wishes of the leaders, usually self appointed, of potential attackers that will decide things. (Putin in this case). We just have to be ready. If you read any reliable history, then in 1914 and 1939 Britain, the rest of the major European countries and America, were not, in any way shape or form, ready to fight a major war. 'It will never happen' was the most heard phrase of the day. Well it did happen - Twice in one generation. That unpreparedness caused the deaths of millions of people worldwide. And we are all walking into the same trap again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 16 hours ago, Yellow Bear said: Any move like this should be based solely on the wishes of the inhabitants, not any woke or political agenda The creeps at the back door can be the most dangerous due to total anonymity, other than dishing out goodies of course? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 20 hours ago, Loki said: Hi Looking back at WW2 - the Russians over-run German Military Forces by sheer weight of numbers.........The T34 tank was poor in terms of engineering, but the numbers that came out of the factories, overcame any engineering/quality on the German side. The saying "quantity has a quality all of its own". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet11-87 Posted April 26 Report Share Posted April 26 On 24/04/2024 at 18:14, Loki said: Hi Looking back at WW2 - the Russians over-run German Military Forces by sheer weight of numbers.........The T34 tank was poor in terms of engineering, but the numbers that came out of the factories, overcame any engineering/quality on the German side. It will come down to how long the West can accommodate 'military assistance' (always with the fall-back that Ukraine has to payback over many years (nothing free - hey?) - we in the UK only just paid back the Amerikans not many years back for the 'assistance' in WW2..... Attrition comes to mind - when does a 'cause' (policy/belief et all) start loosing you money......... L common misconception made their. when it first showed up on the battle field the T-34 outclassed anything the Germans had, it was the driving force behind the rushed development of the panther. When the germans first launched the invasion of russia, germany had the bigger army. The mass horde attacks all along the front are a bit of propaganda. im sure desperate things happened in desperate times but the russian army gets potrayed as borderline zombies and it just wasn't the case. by the time they roled into Berlin in 45 the equipment and quality of the Russian army as a whole was pretty impressive. same as now they seem to be plagued by corruption,communication and leadership issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.357shooter Posted April 28 Report Share Posted April 28 and to think an 8 million pound abrahams can now be taken out by a little drone.as for the german tanks they were not as great as they were made out to be by the american war films.lots of problems with breakdowns and just think about trying to move just a few of those 68.5 ton monsters to the battlefield.basically a lot of them ended up dug in as there was no fuel thanks to us/americans taking out the germans ability to produce it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 On 28/04/2024 at 13:48, .357shooter said: and to think an 8 million pound abrahams can now be taken out by a little drone.as for the german tanks they were not as great as they were made out to be by the american war films.lots of problems with breakdowns and just think about trying to move just a few of those 68.5 ton monsters to the battlefield.basically a lot of them ended up dug in as there was no fuel thanks to us/americans taking out the germans ability to produce it. There's some interesting footage of tiny drones with hand grenades taking out Russian tank, by flying into open hatches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted April 29 Report Share Posted April 29 On 28/04/2024 at 13:48, .357shooter said: and to think an 8 million pound abrahams can now be taken out by a little drone.as for the german tanks they were not as great as they were made out to be The usual way this happens is the separate ammo storage at the back of the tank (on most western tanks) its designed to blow off, rather than destroy the tank and its occupants, the tank should be serviceable in some cases afterwards. Most small drones cant carry a payload big enough to penetrate the more hefty armour of the western stuff. The bigger lancets can though. The videos do make it look like a large explosion has destroyed the tank, and these are spun to make it look like a lost tank* 3 hours ago, Penelope said: There's some interesting footage of tiny drones with hand grenades taking out Russian tank, by flying into open hatches. Usually these tanks have been abandoned for getting stuck or mechanical failure, there are some that do leave the hatches open though ! Russian tanks use thinner armour, but use ERA , little blocks of explosive designed to blow missiles and drone warheads away from the armour so saving the tank and occupants. *When these go off in the videos, it can look like a large explosion that has killed the tank, this is then spun to record a kill. Modern anti tank missiles like the Javelin, have tandem warheads, one charge blows the ERA off while the second larger charge penetrates the hull, killing the occupants at least, often detonating shells in the autoloader too, this is why Russian tanks turrets blow off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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