Raja Clavata Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 10 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: But, this country and its **** poor so called democratic political system needs a damned good kick up the ****. Nigel might just be the very man we need. Whilst I’m not sure Nige is what we need, I do totally agree with you that the system is broken. Just the fact he claims to be different is understandably attractive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 (edited) The west provoked Putin. For crying out loud. You do wonder if he is on the payroll. Edited June 22 by oowee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 No mention of nuclear weapons policy in the reform manifesto. This election basically boils down to the fact we’re going to be served a poo sandwich and forced to consume it, the choice is which dressing you prefer in the sandwich. I’ll be voting conservative to counter the Reform threat as I live in one of the top 5 reform constituencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 So you won't be voting for those nice Labour people. 🙂 To answer your previous points:- This is my take on Farage: He basically wants us to leave everything, even things we’re not members of - that is just a silly throwaway remark and wrong. He’s clearly a Trump fan boy - what is the problem with that? It is better than creepy Joe Biden. He’s a Putin apologist - if you read properly what he said, he didn't like the man. He’s a climate change denier - I think I must fall into the David Bellamy camp. No-one argued against him, but he was just dropped from TV. He fronts a party which naturally attracts some pretty unsavoury characters with pretty extreme views - David Lammy, Angela Rayner, Jeremy Corbyn, Diane Abbott and many more. He displays traits which I would personally associate with being based on various forms of racism - If you think he is a racist - spit it out and show us the evidence. So I understand why Labour is popular here - NOT.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robden Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 (edited) 54 minutes ago, oowee said: The west provoked Putin. For crying out loud. You do wonder if he is on the payroll. I agree with Farage, in as much as Putin doesn't want Nato on his doorstep, so decided to try to do something about it. The same as we don't want Putin and the like, spreading across Europe. The difference being, we just "Tut" (albeit loudly) and sometimes, may even bang on the table. Edited June 22 by Robden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B686 Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 Nowadays idiots class you as racist for actually giving a toss about your country and wanting to put this country’s peoples interests and welfare before other certain nationalities swarming here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 1 hour ago, oowee said: The west provoked Putin. For crying out loud. You do wonder if he is on the payroll. farage said it as it is if Ukraine was situation anywhere else we would not have lifted a finger let alone fuel the fire! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: The IFS analysis of the reform manifesto is pretty bleak reading. The IFS analysis, doesn't even cover everything that Reform Uk has put forward, half a page, barely scratching the surface... not exactly stellar output from those who claim to be the leading analysis group in the UK....... 2 hours ago, Gordon R said: So you won't be voting for those nice Labour people. 🙂 To answer your previous points:- This is my take on Farage: He basically wants us to leave everything, even things we’re not members of - that is just a silly throwaway remark and wrong. He’s clearly a Trump fan boy - what is the problem with that? It is better than creepy Joe Biden. He’s a Putin apologist - if you read properly what he said, he didn't like the man. He’s a climate change denier - I think I must fall into the David Bellamy camp. No-one argued against him, but he was just dropped from TV. He fronts a party which naturally attracts some pretty unsavoury characters with pretty extreme views - David Lammy, Angela Rayner, Jeremy Corbyn, Diane Abbott and many more. He displays traits which I would personally associate with being based on various forms of racism - If you think he is a racist - spit it out and show us the evidence. So I understand why Labour is popular here - NOT.. 👏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 3 hours ago, Gordon R said: So you won't be voting for those nice Labour people. 🙂 To answer your previous points:- This is my take on Farage: He basically wants us to leave everything, even things we’re not members of - that is just a silly throwaway remark and wrong. He’s clearly a Trump fan boy - what is the problem with that? It is better than creepy Joe Biden. He’s a Putin apologist - if you read properly what he said, he didn't like the man. He’s a climate change denier - I think I must fall into the David Bellamy camp. No-one argued against him, but he was just dropped from TV. He fronts a party which naturally attracts some pretty unsavoury characters with pretty extreme views - David Lammy, Angela Rayner, Jeremy Corbyn, Diane Abbott and many more. He displays traits which I would personally associate with being based on various forms of racism - If you think he is a racist - spit it out and show us the evidence. So I understand why Labour is popular here - NOT.. Thank you Gordon, you saved me some typing 1 hour ago, Stonepark said: The IFS analysis, doesn't even cover everything that Reform Uk has put forward, half a page, barely scratching the surface... not exactly stellar output from those who claim to be the leading analysis group in the UK....... The IFS analysis isnt kind to anyones manifesto when it comes to the economy, it says labour are basically going to do nothing. 2 hours ago, clangerman said: farage said it as it is if Ukraine was situation anywhere else we would not have lifted a finger let alone fuel the fire! Theres one single factor that decides whether the west provoked Putin in Ukraine, did the US/NATO have anything to do with the Maidan coup ? If it did, and the evidence points toward it did , the whole thing snowballed from there. If it didnt , they certainly capitalised on it afterwards, with increased aid, foreign mercs sent over to Donbass and joint NATO exercises conducted with Ukraine , often on Ukrainian soil.https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/ukraine-holds-military-drills-with-us-forces-nato-allies-2021-09-20/ So holding a joint NATO exercise called rapid 'trident' 6 months before Putin invaded, and based entirely on Ukraines ascension into NATO wasnt a provocation ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 6 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: I don’t think anyone is advocating Labour here, so that’s not relevant. This is my take on Farage: He basically wants us to leave everything, even things we’re not members of He’s clearly a Trump fan boy He’s a Putin apologist He’s a climate change denier He fronts a party which naturally attracts some pretty unsavoury characters with pretty extreme views He displays traits which I would personally associate with being based on various forms of racism So I understand why he is popular here. Trump fan boy. Correct Putin apologist. Wrong Climate change denier. Wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 Saying the west provoked Putin is akin to a woman provoking rape by wearing a short skirt. Farage is a disgusting individual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 2 minutes ago, oowee said: Saying the west provoked Putin is akin to a woman provoking rape by wearing a short skirt. Farage is a disgusting individual. Theres some wild extrapolations there Ukraine didnt wear a short skirt , it wore a NATO dress, and exposed its buttocks to Russia. And Farage ? Disagreeing with a mans political perspective doesnt make him 'disgusting' I dont like Starmers politics, but I dont find him abhorrent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 6 minutes ago, oowee said: Saying the west provoked Putin is akin to a woman provoking rape by wearing a short skirt. Farage is a disgusting individual. I'd say it's more akin to telling a lone female not to wear a short dress and heels and walk around Afghanistan. It's not blaming the girl, but simply giving sensible advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 3 minutes ago, Rewulf said: And Farage ? Disagreeing with a mans political perspective doesnt make him 'disgusting' I dont like Starmers politics, but I dont find him abhorrent. Your probably right. My view is coloured somewhat, as he is one of three (Johnson and Cameron) on the block for the Brexit suicide. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 "Brexit suicide". Oh dear, Remainers don't like losing. Before some bright spark says it's the UK losing - you need a reality check. The UK is doing nicely. There are big problems, but being in the EU would mean they were worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 6 hours ago, Gordon R said: So you won't be voting for those nice Labour people. 🙂 To answer your previous points:- This is my take on Farage: He basically wants us to leave everything, even things we’re not members of - that is just a silly throwaway remark and wrong. He’s clearly a Trump fan boy - what is the problem with that? It is better than creepy Joe Biden. He’s a Putin apologist - if you read properly what he said, he didn't like the man. He’s a climate change denier - I think I must fall into the David Bellamy camp. No-one argued against him, but he was just dropped from TV. He fronts a party which naturally attracts some pretty unsavoury characters with pretty extreme views - David Lammy, Angela Rayner, Jeremy Corbyn, Diane Abbott and many more. He displays traits which I would personally associate with being based on various forms of racism - If you think he is a racist - spit it out and show us the evidence. So I understand why Labour is popular here - NOT.. Tit for tat doesn’t really progress the discussion. With all due respect, beyond simple logic and basic decency if you and I agree on something then I tend to doubt my judgement. Perhaps the major exception was our aligned views on the covid and lockdown fiasco. 1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said: Trump fan boy. Correct Putin apologist. Wrong Climate change denier. Wrong Please double check his and his party’s position on climate change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 2 hours ago, Rewulf said: So holding a joint NATO exercise called rapid 'trident' 6 months before Putin invaded, and based entirely on Ukraines ascension into NATO wasnt a provocation ? A legal show of force within sovereign boundaries may irritate adversaries but provocation is a bit of a stretch. More like a deterrent, which I think we can agree was unsuccessful. Regardless of the outcome of the conflict, one clear side effect and a miscalculation on his part is that Putin has more NATO members on his borders than he did before which, when the dust settles, will also include Ukraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 Sadly Raja, I share your doubts about your judgement. " I tend to doubt my judgement." Your judgement seems extreme to me. I still await your evidence to portray Farage as being racist, although you skated round the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 20 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Putin has more NATO members on his borders than he did before If you think about it , this was inevitable, planned and executed. Finland and Sweden didnt conduct military 'exercises' with either country prior, but they did with NATO. 23 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: when the dust settles, will also include Ukraine. Will it ? A pre condition of a ceasefire, a truce, and an end to this conflict, is Ukraine doesnt join NATO. If we want peace that is , I would say there are some that are happy for this to continue indefinitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 38 minutes ago, Gordon R said: Sadly Raja, I share your doubts about your judgement. " I tend to doubt my judgement." Your judgement seems extreme to me. I still await your evidence to portray Farage as being racist, although you skated round the word. Never mind, I made my point. And your misquote just about sums up the basis of our misalignment. Evidence has no bearing on the “blind”, am I’m not falling into a slander trap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowchaser Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 I've voted Tory for the past few elections simply to keep Labour out of power. While the two parties might not be able to squeeze a cigarette paper between them, I think with the Tories we have the slightly lesser of two evils. I would like to see the two party system ripped up and would like to vote Reform actually, but I'm not sure it'll do anything. We're in for more rinse and repeat if Labour win. At the next election or the one after that, they'll be voted out. People have short memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 26 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Will it ? A pre condition of a ceasefire, a truce, and an end to this conflict, is Ukraine doesnt join NATO. If we want peace that is , I would say there are some that are happy for this to continue indefinitely. Only according to Russia on the ceasefire precondition. Ukrainians want the pre-2014 borders restored. Although Trump is a very real threat to realising that aspiration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 Interesting piece in the Telegraph about the direction of travel in Europe. I’m up for rejoining the EU once the right takes control 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: Climate change denier. Wrong Man made climate change denier... Correct Humans are not causing climate change, neither is the CO2 we produce... Every climate change model, every single one of them, is a simplified version of reality which does not replicate reality and therefore cannot replicate current or past climate, never mind the future. The models do not even include all the energy inputs from the sun, which is the main driver of climate change and which we can do nothing about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 22 Report Share Posted June 22 1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said: Ukrainians want the pre-2014 borders restored What do you reckon the chances of that are ? I'd say thers a lot more chance of Farage becoming king Nigel the first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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