How much is it really...

[Raja Clavata]

9 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Would you venture any proof to support your wild guess? 

You’re becoming decidedly tedious.

The burden of proof does not lie with me, so no.

I put forward a simplified hypothesis earlier, which you ignored initially and then came back criticising.

You offered no evidence supporting your claim of 6M but demand the same of others. Yawn.

Feel free to propose an alternative percentage of GDP. Otherwise, for the harmony of the forum perhaps neither of us should post further on this thread.

 

[Gordon R]

I give up. Your patronising remarks about Auntie and your denial that you raised racism say it all.

[Raja Clavata]

No point trying to reason or debate with you but if you have an alternative GDP percentage please share it. Else like I said we’ve run out course on this topic.

[old man]

14 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

The agreement the Govt has with Albania sees the UK pay Albania 40k for every return!

 

 

Politicians always very free with money from others?

[100milesaway]

3 hours ago, Gordon R said:

I give up. Your patronising remarks about Auntie and your denial that you raised racism say it all.

Water off a ducks back, I sit back, take it all in and rest assured that if the s##t does hit the fan,he will be in hiding, even the consciptors would not want him. From Auntie.

[Raja Clavata]

4 minutes ago, 100milesaway said:

Water off a ducks back, I sit back, take it all in and rest assured that if the s##t does hit the fan,he will be in hiding, even the consciptors would not want him. From Auntie.

If you’re as decent as you purport then I’d have expected you to have at least had the decency to explain your post that was, at best, ambiguous.

What or whom were you referring to by “them”?

Also, it’s clear from the “discussion” that my patronising remark followed you labelling me as clueless.

Your last remark is partially true, I’m deemed too old for conscription but I’d be in the first queue of volunteers.

One of my key points is that I believe there are far bigger threats to “us” from a different type of “them” and I’m currently considering a change in industry to try to do something about that on a professional basis.

[100milesaway]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

If you’re as decent as you purport then I’d have expected you to have at least had the decency to explain your post that was, at best, ambiguous.

What or whom were you referring to by “them”?

Also, it’s clear from the “discussion” that my patronising remark followed you labelling me as clueless.

Your last remark is partially true, I’m deemed too old for conscription but I’d be in the first queue of volunteers.

One of my key points is that I believe there are far bigger threats to “us” from a different type of “them” and I’m currently considering a change in industry to try to do something about that on a professional basis.

I do not need to explain my level of decency to anyone, my actions serve me well in that department. Speaking of ambiguity *them... us* ?

From Auntie.

[Raja Clavata]

41 minutes ago, 100milesaway said:

I do not need to explain my level of decency to anyone, my actions serve me well in that department. Speaking of ambiguity *them... us* ?

From Auntie.

Your decency towards me, us and whomever them are is clear. Never mind.

[12gauge82]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13591609/residents-boroughs-England-immigrants-2023-analysis.html

Some alarming figures for anyone interested. 

[Raja Clavata]

10 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13591609/residents-boroughs-England-immigrants-2023-analysis.html

Some alarming figures for anyone interested. 

How could they be anything but alarming from the Daily Mail.

I only skim read but presumably these numbers are a combination of both legal migration and known illegal migration or?

A figure I found interesting, not that article but from ONS, is that 41.5% of the working age population in Farage’s constituency are economically inactive, that’s nearly double the national average. No doubt various factors at play but in that constituency the immigration problem is perhaps seen predominantly as a threat to benefits.

[Penelope]

3 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

How could they be anything but alarming from the Daily Mail.

I only skim read but presumably these numbers are a combination of both legal migration and known illegal migration or?

A figure I found interesting, not that article but from ONS, is that 41.5% of the working age population in Farage’s constituency are economically inactive, that’s nearly double the national average. No doubt various factors at play but in that constituency the immigration problem is perhaps seen predominantly as a threat to benefits.

Jaywick.

[Gordon R]

Quote

I only skim read but presumably these numbers are a combination of both legal migration and known illegal migration or?

Got to love the way that anything printed in the Daily Mail is "fake". The figures are alarming and that is just the ones they know about. Add in illegals, which are not known, then it is genuinely alarming. 

Edited July 17 by Gordon R

[oowee]

It would be interesting to understand the figures better. It looks like a huge increase in net migration post Brexit. At a time control has apparently shifted to the UK. I wonder if that's correct? 

Where are those that sought settled status or citizenship, post Brexit represented? That would likely account a significant element of the figures. 

Edited July 17 by oowee

[Gordon R]

It would be interesting, but accurate figures are hard to come by, as Raja can testify, being unable to come up with any at all. 🙂

[12gauge82]

I don't think we need to look too deep to find those figures absolutely shocking and it doesn't take a genius to realise the impact those numbers are going to have on the UK and it's infrastructure. 

[oowee]

51 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I don't think we need to look too deep to find those figures absolutely shocking and it doesn't take a genius to realise the impact those numbers are going to have on the UK and it's infrastructure. 

But if the figures include 2m to 4m (?) that were already here and simply naturalised (if thats the word?) from the EU then the figures would look significantly different. The headline says came here but are they largely registrations? Many of these could well have been here for the last 20 years. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

It would be interesting to understand the figures better. It looks like a huge increase in net migration post Brexit. At a time control has apparently shifted to the UK. I wonder if that's correct? 

The sharp increase in net migration after Brexit is due to the EU migrants actually registering they were here.
Before, they were just faceless people floating around the perimeter of the system.
Brexit forced them to make themselves known.

You will give a similar spike when/if labour announce a non EU migrant amnesty.

Bear in mind our natural population growth by births currently runs at about 1.3 , so recent population rises are mostly down to immigration.
 

[oowee]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

The sharp increase in net migration after Brexit is due to the EU migrants actually registering they were here.
Before, they were just faceless people floating around the perimeter of the system.
Brexit forced them to make themselves known.

You will give a similar spike when/if labour announce a non EU migrant amnesty.

Bear in mind our natural population growth by births currently runs at about 1.3 , so recent population rises are mostly down to immigration.
 

Not sure where the faceless bit comes from. If that's right then these figures from the Mail are completely distorted and the reporting does not reflect the reality of the situation. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

On 12/07/2024 at 13:04, 100milesaway said:

Maybe you should consider your racist remarks before you try to label me with that badge. Our country is full and yet more folks irrespective of race or colour are still trying to get a slice of the ever dwindling resources.  

I am proud to have voted for brexit and proud to have voted for the reform party.

I would dearly love to help impoverished people all over the world but my belief is to help them in their own countries.

It is obvious to me that before this can happen we need to be in a strong country which encourages self help and not handouts to all and sundry.

I am very fearful of our countries future with an army of near do wells arriving on a daily basis irrespective  of race or colour.

I also believe the boats arrivals are just scratching the surface of the true figure arriving legitimately and disappearing into our soft underbelly.

As a country that has enough of its own parasites we truly do not need more.

From Auntie.

 

Hello, Good post Auntie, 👏,  We are only a small Island yet a magnet to those who are illegal and take advantage of our welfare system when we have our own population to look after, a million children living in poverty yet we pay out millions of £s to house, feed, and keep them here, We need a Hadrian type wall around the UK and effective immigration system that works, and 24 hour Navy Patrols in the Channel, Send then all back to France, 

[oowee]

1 minute ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, Good post Auntie, 👏,   we have our own population to look after, a million children living in poverty yet we pay out millions of £s to house, feed, and keep them here. 

We have a million children living in poverty do you think it has anything to do with the rather ridiculous govt that has been in power for the last 14 years? 

We are a small island and the economy here is in sharp decline. If we can improve the economy we will have a little more to tackle the other challenges. Unfortunately Brexit took a further 4% out of our ailing economy. Perhaps a way forward would be to improve our marketing to potential migrants to let them know the place is not as wonderful as they might think. 😁

[Rewulf]

11 minutes ago, oowee said:

Not sure where the faceless bit comes from. If that's right then these figures from the Mail are completely distorted and the reporting does not reflect the reality of the situation. 

The reality of the situation is that we have net migration at 700,000 souls a year.
The UK cannot cope with what we have now, if , as I suspect yearly net migration goes up, that just compounds the problem.

 

5 minutes ago, oowee said:

Perhaps a way forward would be to improve our marketing to potential migrants to let them know the place is not as wonderful as they might think

When youve come from a 3rd world country, the only thing that would deter you from coming here, is if the UK was in a worse state than back home.
But we're getting there, slowly but surely.

[Raja Clavata]

2 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Got to love the way that anything printed in the Daily Mail is "fake". The figures are alarming and that is just the ones they know about. Add in illegals, which are not known, then it is genuinely alarming. 

Anonymous misquote lol. I thought you’d given up but feel free to continue making yourself look like a plum.

2 hours ago, oowee said:

It would be interesting to understand the figures better. It looks like a huge increase in net migration post Brexit. At a time control has apparently shifted to the UK. I wonder if that's correct? 

Where are those that sought settled status or citizenship, post Brexit represented? That would likely account a significant element of the figures. 

Precising on a set of numbers / data does not seem to be a priority for certain pockets of populism.

Probably best to assume the numbers relate purely to legal migration, so no known illegal immigrants included. Is that your assumption too?

[Raja Clavata]

2 hours ago, Gordon R said:

It would be interesting, but accurate figures are hard to come by, as Raja can testify, being unable to come up with any at all. 🙂

You claimed a number as fact, I challenged and your reply was to counter with a different number.

In your obsession to ridicule I believe you may have overlooked a key point that I’ve been trying to highlight all along. Illegal immigration is amplified to distract from other things going on, an example is given in the daily mail article relating to legal migration. Now these newcomers may be contributing to our GDP but by definition, enhanced by legitimacy being here, they are eroding our values far more per head than illegals who tend to stay under the radar.

[Rewulf]

19 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Probably best to assume the numbers relate purely to legal migration, so no known illegal immigrants included. Is that your assumption too?

Of course they do, if they are illegal they wont have been counted !

10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Now these newcomers may be contributing to our GDP but by definition, enhanced by legitimacy being here, they are eroding our values far more per head than illegals who tend to stay under the radar.

So if theyre under the radar, again, how can they be counted ?
We know of asylum applicants, we know that all detention centres are full, they fill up hotels up and down the country, we know the costs involved, we've even bought boats for them to live on.
But as Ive said previously, this is the tip of the iceberg, small boats are not the primary source of illegal immigration to the UK, and the figure of 700,000 pa is not the total influx of net (legal) migration, its just the ones we KNOW about.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

The reality of the situation is that we have net migration at 700,000 souls a year.
The UK cannot cope with what we have now, if , as I suspect yearly net migration goes up, that just compounds the problem.

 

When youve come from a 3rd world country, the only thing that would deter you from coming here, is if the UK was in a worse state than back home.
But we're getting there, slowly but surely.

If the 700k is correct what is it's make up?  If 30k to 50k come on small boats where are the rest from? It looks to me that a large number of that figure might be EU consolidations from the last 20 years or so? Where are students? 

If 700k is correct the small boat arrivals look almost insignificant.

UK economy upto now has relied upon population growth to run. If the population is in decline and we don't have migration then we have to try something different.

Following Brexit the UK has faced a severe labour shortage. As we accept more arrivals from the third world i guess its reasonable to assume that they are likely to arrive with a larger family base. One advantage perhaps for those from Europe, given the proximity of geography and economy, a larger number of them were likely to return to their country of birth. 

With Luck the current government will be able to make different arrangements with the EU. Academic standard alignment (in the plan) would be a very useful starting point that could give us more access for doctors and dentists.