So our Country is broke

[oowee]

1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said:

I don't miss Sunak one bit and despite the fact I didn't vote for Labour, they've promised they can sort the mess this country is in. I'm going to give them a chance to do so, Rome was not built in a day! If they fail, they're going to get punished at the ballot box. 

I hope you are right. For the first time the vote for the right of politics is split. The vote for the left has been split for years with the libdems, greens, snp etc. If Labour can hold the centre ground and the right remains split it will be near impossible for labour to be held to account.

Our political system only works with a decent opposition. 

I suspect rather than fail on delivery it will be more a case of imploding to bring them down. For now they are making the right noises.

[JohnfromUK]

25 minutes ago, oowee said:

No idea on this but if benefits must be at a level of need not want. 

So a single person on £215 a week doesn't "need" a winter fuel payment?  You must live on a different planet.  There will be an awful lot of people on a standard state pension (and no more) who will loose this payment.

Not everyone has other pensions.  MPs and Gov't employees have looked after themselves and typically have VERY generous pensions in addition to state pensions.  Many others don't have that luxury

[Weihrauch17]

11 minutes ago, oowee said:

I hope you are right. For the first time the vote for the right of politics is split. The vote for the left has been split for years with the libdems, greens, snp etc. If Labour can hold the centre ground and the right remains split it will be near impossible for labour to be held to account.

Our political system only works with a decent opposition. 

I suspect rather than fail on delivery it will be more a case of imploding to bring them down. For now they are making the right noises.

Hold centre ground by driving inflation through the roof with their day one capitulation to the Unions and destroying social cohesion with their overwhelming desire for mass immigration.  Putting energy costs through the roof destroying Public wealth and what industry we have left.  Yeah right, you live in a parallel universe.

3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

So a single person on £215 a week doesn't "need" a winter fuel payment?  You must live on a different planet.  There will be an awful lot of people on a standard state pension (and no more) who will loose this payment.

Not everyone has other pensions.  MPs and Gov't employees have looked after themselves and typically have VERY generous pensions in addition to state pensions.  Many others don't have that luxury

Yep including the poster you reply to, the hypocrisy is immense.

[oowee]

1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

So a single person on £215 a week doesn't "need" a winter fuel payment?  You must live on a different planet.  There will be an awful lot of people on a standard state pension (and no more) who will loose this payment.

Not everyone has other pensions.  MPs and Gov't employees have looked after themselves and typically have VERY generous pensions in addition to state pensions.  Many others don't have that luxury

The same applies across the range of benefits. Some say that the unemployed are encouraged not to work because benefits are too high. Others may have earn't or saved more through there life and that's to be applauded. You get out what we put in. 

[oowee]

4 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Hold centre ground by driving inflation through the roof with their day one capitulation to the Unions and destroying social cohesion with their overwhelming desire for mass immigration.  Putting energy costs through the roof destroying Public wealth and what industry we have left. 

Must have missed that part. Oh you mean the payment for doctors so that we all get the treatment that we deserve? That we can start to tackle the back log of waiting lists. 

Desire for mass immigration? Not sure where that comes from. Yes they are trying a different approach but then we know that the previous approach was not working. 

Energy costs through the roof? Oh you mean increasing the proportion of renewable lower cost energy? Or did you mean allowing on shore wind which reduces costs even further. Or did you mean the objective of being self sufficient in energy? All of which increases the opportunity for the UK to be leading these industries by in both design and manufacturing.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

Some say that the unemployed are encouraged not to work because benefits are too high.

That is true, but what gets paid to the unemployed depends (in a complex way) on a whole range of things.  My point is simple; a standard single pensioner on £215 a week looses the winter fuel payment.  That is not right.

IF the winter fuel payment was removed for people on say £500 a week, then they probably could afford to lose it, but £215 - be realistic.  £215 a week is not a lot on which to live.

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

That is true, but what gets paid to the unemployed depends (in a complex way) on a whole range of things.  My point is simple; a standard single pensioner on £215 a week looses the winter fuel payment.  That is not right.

IF the winter fuel payment was removed for people on say £500 a week, then they probably could afford to lose it, but £215 - be realistic.  £215 a week is not a lot on which to live.

I agree it's not a lot. Fuel costs have reduced a little and the pension benefit has been increased (it needed to).

Lets hope that the govt can drive growth and some of these things can become more affordable. Unfortunately it does not stop at fuel allowance. 

[Weihrauch17]

21 minutes ago, oowee said:

Must have missed that part. Oh you mean the payment for doctors so that we all get the treatment that we deserve? That we can start to tackle the back log of waiting lists. 

Desire for mass immigration? Not sure where that comes from. Yes they are trying a different approach but then we know that the previous approach was not working. 

Energy costs through the roof? Oh you mean increasing the proportion of renewable lower cost energy? Or did you mean allowing on shore wind which reduces costs even further. Or did you mean the objective of being self sufficient in energy? All of which increases the opportunity for the UK to be leading these industries by in both design and manufacturing.

Yes ridiculous 22% pay rises and inflation busting pay rises for all Public sector workers will drive up inflation and see everyone else wanting the same.

Amnesty for the 90,000 illegals already here gives the green light to any refugees in the EU to come here, after all Ang is building millions of free houses for them.  Cooper has also frozen the salary cap at which immigrants can bring over family at 29k, it was due to rise to 38k.

Renewable energy is not lower cost it has more than doubled it because of subsidies and the fact we need to maintain back ups for when the wind doesn't blow or the sun doesn't shine which is most of the time in the UK.  If you believe renewables are cheaper you are in la la land.  Solar Panels and Wind Turbines also need replacing every 20 years, that doesn't seem to get a mention. We have the third highest electricity prices in the world because of Net Zero and Reeves scraps the winter fuel allowance.  Unbelievable.

Edited July 31 by Weihrauch17

[Mice!]

46 minutes ago, oowee said:

makes no sense to me that people I know earning around £400k pa pay around 15% tax. Call it what you like but to me that is wrong. 

So their only paying £60K 🤣🤣 how much do you think they should pay?

Keep in mind I don't earn 60K ( and never will), but I know that means their using an accountant to work the system,  their putting 60k into the system,  plus paying an accountant,  I'll guess paying for private education and health care, nice big house somewhere I hope.

So their paying in 60K, not using the NHS, Education, or ever going to claim any benefits,  their actually supporting others who do ball all, pay in nothing and take everything they can, but you'd like to see them taxed more 🤣🤣🤣

[welsh1]

23 minutes ago, oowee said:

Must have missed that part. Oh you mean the payment for doctors so that we all get the treatment that we deserve? That we can start to tackle the back log of waiting lists. Created by said doctors striking

Desire for mass immigration? Not sure where that comes from. Yes they are trying a different approach but then we know that the previous approach was not working. It doesn't look like labour are doing anything new, plenty of dinghys arriving, more regular than the erries at the moment

Energy costs through the roof? Oh you mean increasing the proportion of renewable lower cost energy? Or did you mean allowing on shore wind which reduces costs even further. Or did you mean the objective of being self sufficient in energy? All of which increases the opportunity for the UK to be leading these industries by in both design and manufacturing.Oh how i love those green charges on my fuel bill, and so enjoy being the highest energy charges in europe, but at least we are stopping drilling for all that horrible new oil that could have stabalised our costs. but don't worry only 5 years before we are all in electric cars sucking more electricity than ever before from all those new sustainable projects that will have been built, but don't hold your breath because nothing happens quickly in government when it comes to infrastructure being built.

While i admire your optimism, labour have shown their true colours within weeks, snatch money from pensioners, declare there is no money while offering doctors a massive rise, which in turn will encourage all the other public sectors to want more, leading to inflation rises. the new chancellor lies like a cheap chinese watch, as does sir kier.

there will be sound bites and grandiouse announcements, but they will pick your pockets while showing you sparkly things that are never going to come to fruition.

 

[Raja Clavata]

3 minutes ago, Mice! said:

So their only paying £60K 🤣🤣 how much do you think they should pay?

Keep in mind I don't earn 60K ( and never will), but I know that means their using an accountant to work the system,  their putting 60k into the system,  plus paying an accountant,  I'll guess paying for private education and health care, nice big house somewhere I hope.

So their paying in 60K, not using the NHS, Education, or ever going to claim any benefits,  their actually supporting others who do ball all, pay in nothing and take everything they can, but you'd like to see them taxed more 🤣🤣🤣

£400k PAYE equates to about £165k income tax and £10k.

£60k tax and NI equates to just over £150k PAYE.

Taxation is progressive but if “everyone” paid their share overall tax could be lower.

The effective 60% tax window between £100k and £125k PAYE is particularly unfair in my opinion. 

[oowee]

10 minutes ago, Mice! said:

So their only paying £60K 🤣🤣 how much do you think they should pay?

Keep in mind I don't earn 60K ( and never will), but I know that means their using an accountant to work the system,  their putting 60k into the system,  plus paying an accountant,  I'll guess paying for private education and health care, nice big house somewhere I hope.

So their paying in 60K, not using the NHS, Education, or ever going to claim any benefits,  their actually supporting others who do ball all, pay in nothing and take everything they can, but you'd like to see them taxed more 🤣🤣🤣

Ok. You earn a £100k the next £10k will be taxed at @90%. 

The top rate of tax is 45% for those on £125k plus. If you pay yourself in dividends or capital growth you are taxed at a different rate using capital gains, if your lucky around 18% rather than 45%.  You could even loan your own company some cash and pay yourself back after deducting costs. Because you are earning so little you can exploit the tax relief for pension payments that for everyone else will be subject to a taper. This would allow you to offset any tax you decide to pay by putting the cash into your pension. Life time allowance now removed of course. 

Its wrong. The more you take home the more tax you should pay. 

Just now, Raja Clavata said:

£400k PAYE equates to about £165k income tax and £10k.

£60k tax and NI equates to just over £150k PAYE.

Taxation is progressive but if “everyone” paid their share overall tax could be lower.

The effective 60% tax window between £100k and £125k PAYE is particularly unfair in my opinion. 

It's closer to 90%. 40% tax and the loss of your personal allowance. at £1 for £1

[Raja Clavata]

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

Ok. You earn a £100k the next £10k will be taxed at @90%. 

The top rate of tax is 45% for those on £125k plus. If you pay yourself in dividends or capital growth you are taxed at a different rate using capital gains, if your lucky around 18% rather than 45%.  You could even loan your own company some cash and pay yourself back after deducting costs. Because you are earning so little you can exploit the tax relief for pension payments that for everyone else will be subject to a taper. This would allow you to offset any tax you decide to pay by putting the cash into your pension. Life time allowance now removed of course. 

Its wrong. The more you take home the more tax you should pay. 

It's closer to 90%. 40% tax and the loss of your personal allowance. at £1 for £1

Double check, pretty sure it’s a £1 tax allowance for every £2 earnt up to the threshold where your tax allowance is zero, that occurs at 100k + 2*your tax allowance.Unless it changed recently.

Edited July 31 by Raja Clavata

[oowee]

4 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Double check, pretty sure it’s a £1 tax allowance for every £2 earnt up to the threshold where your tax allowance is zero, that occurs at 100k + 2*your tax allowance.Unless it changed recently.

Yep my mistake your right. Just reminded myself. £1 reduction for every £2 earnt. 

 

 

[Mice!]

7 minutes ago, oowee said:

Ok. You earn a £100k the next £10k will be taxed at @90%. 

The top rate of tax is 45% for those on £125k plus. If you pay yourself in dividends or capital growth you are taxed at a different rate using capital gains, if your lucky around 18% rather than 45%.  You could even loan your own company some cash and pay yourself back after deducting costs. Because you are earning so little you can exploit the tax relief for pension payments that for everyone else will be subject to a taper. This would allow you to offset any tax you decide to pay by putting the cash into your pension. Life time allowance now removed of course. 

Its wrong. The more you take home the more tax you should pay. 

It's closer to 90%. 40% tax and the loss of your personal allowance. at £1 for £1

So where's the incentive for people to earn and declare honestly what they earn, I'd rather companies such as Amazon and the rest pay what they should but its never going to happen.

I'm well aware of the dividend payments as I've worked as a contractor in the past, the system is there and can work for you, but it's a hassle unless your on mega bucks I'd guess.

18 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

£400k PAYE equates to about £165k income tax and £10k.

£60k tax and NI equates to just over £150k PAYE.

Taxation is progressive but if “everyone” paid their share overall tax could be lower.

The effective 60% tax window between £100k and £125k PAYE is particularly unfair in my opinion. 

I get that, but there's a system in place, if someone earning 400k isn't clever enough to avoid losing 175k in tax then how are they clever enough to be earning 400k??

Like I said above,  these people won't be taking anything from the system,  just paying for others.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello,  With 10 million pensioners loosing the heating allowance i cannot see Labour having a second term if there is another general election but there again there might not be many of us left🤔

[amateur]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

Lets get the state system levelled up. There should be support for g&t there should be help through uni for those that need it. We should be subsidising education in core subjects that add value to the UK economy. All children should have a chance through education. 

There used to be a very good system for poor, but gifted and talented, kids to get an excellent education. Grammar schools, alas destroyed in the main by the then Labour government.

I went to university and ended up in a well paid profession thanks to my passing the 11+

Fortunately for my grandson, he lives in Kent, so he is doing the same.

All comprehensives did was level down.

[Weihrauch17]

46 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello,  With 10 million pensioners loosing the heating allowance i cannot see Labour having a second term if there is another general election but there again there might not be many of us left🤔

That's the idea, triple your energy costs with Net Zero insanity and scrap the winter allowance.  Truly disgusting.

Edited July 31 by Weihrauch17

[Rewulf]

7 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Truly disgusting.

What's really disgusting ,is the fact they probably had this planned all along, didn't put it in the manifesto, and had the balls to announce it less than a month in.

All this 'we didn't realise how bad the finances are' ?

What happened to 'all Labours fiscal plans are 'fully costed' 😂

[Weihrauch17]

8 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

What's really disgusting ,is the fact they probably had this planned all along, didn't put it in the manifesto, and had the balls to announce it less than a month in.

All this 'we didn't realise how bad the finances are' ?

What happened to 'all Labours fiscal plans are 'fully costed' 😂

We have another 4 years and 11 months of this ****!  God help us all they will have put the final nail in the UK coffin.

[JohnfromUK]

6 hours ago, oowee said:

Fuel costs have reduced a little and the pension benefit has been increased (it needed to).

 

My energy suppliers current 'fixed rate' offer suggests energy is due to rise in the next 12 months.  Around 10% increase in the 'cap' has been touted in the press.  The pension increased by inflation, no more.  Thats how the triple lock works when the previous rate has been above 2.5%

[JohnfromUK]

4 hours ago, Rewulf said:

What's really disgusting ,is the fact they probably had this planned all along, didn't put it in the manifesto, and had the balls to announce it less than a month in.

All this 'we didn't realise how bad the finances are' ?

What happened to 'all Labours fiscal plans are 'fully costed'

Unfortunately, that's politics.

Those who believe a manifesto are 'gullible' to say the least.  I think all parties are near enough equally bad.  The previous incumbents tend to be judged on their past record (which hammered the Tories, and in many ways deservedly), but the others - many of the voters do 'believe' (to an extent anyway) the manifesto.

[Robden]

No mention of the boats coming over lately. Is that because Sir K has stopped them (like he said he would) by making this country so undesirable?

[Mungler]

On 28/07/2024 at 18:16, oowee said:

£700m for Rwanda 4 people went voluntarily. Flight ticket price is £300

It’s criminal for Labour to abandon it half way through. Another example of political fecklessness.

Indeed, they have abandoned it without an alternative. And do we think their alternative will come at no cost? Well, if you open the door wide open and let everyone in there’s no border control / deportation scheme costs but you then push the problem onto the wider state with housing shortages, NHS overwhelm and school place shortages. 
 

 

On 28/07/2024 at 21:37, oowee said:

Millions to build Brexit border controls. Millions more compensation to knock them down. 

Feckless Labour right there 

[Raja Clavata]

Sunk cost fallacy.