How much influence does the FEO have?

[Bailey20]

Hi all, so I had my interview last week with the FEO and another officer who I assumed was a trainee? I feel all went well, asked about my previous experience shooting, gun safe and the usual stuff.

We discussed a previous arrest I had with the police, which we went over it in some detail. The arrest finally led to no further action and the FEO said that being honest and upfront about it even in my application has gone on my favour. 

I think the interview its self went quite well all things considering but ultimately the decision isn't his! He writes a report which then goes off to the head of firearms.

So my question is, how much influence does his report have on granting licences?

[Bailey20]

Hi all, so I had my interview last week with the FEO and another officer who I assumed was a trainee? I feel all went well, asked about my previous experience shooting, gun safe and the usual stuff.

We discussed a previous arrest I had with the police, which we went over it in some detail. The arrest finally led to no further action and the FEO said that being honest and upfront about it even in my application has gone on my favour. 

I think the interview its self went quite well all things considering but ultimately the decision isn't his! He writes a report which then goes off to the head of firearms.

So my question is, how much influence does his report have on granting licences?

[Bailey20]

I realised I but this on the wrong thread, if someone could delete it fie me please🙏🏻 

[Lloyd90]

Who knows. 
 

You’ve given us 0.0001% of the details of your arrest which will obviously be a major factor.

 

It varies significantly on the response you may get. 

[scarecrow243]

the feo is only there to do the paper work its the same when you get a police constable doing the visit  its down to the chief constable 

[enfieldspares]

I think it depends, as with many things, on how much his or her superiors allow him or her to have!

[Newbie to this]

8 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

You’ve given us 0.0001% of the details of your arrest which will obviously be a major factor.

Why would it be? No further action was taken. If true then it should play no part in their decision.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

10 hours ago, Bailey20 said:

Hi all, so I had my interview last week with the FEO and another officer who I assumed was a trainee? I feel all went well, asked about my previous experience shooting, gun safe and the usual stuff.

We discussed a previous arrest I had with the police, which we went over it in some detail. The arrest finally led to no further action and the FEO said that being honest and upfront about it even in my application has gone on my favour. 

I think the interview its self went quite well all things considering but ultimately the decision isn't his! He writes a report which then goes off to the head of firearms.

So my question is, how much influence does his report have on granting licences?

Why didn't you ask who the second person was?

Did you offer tea and GOOD biscuits?

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, to me the FEO would have most support for an application but it still needs signing off , Who is your Police Authority ??

[Lloyd90]

5 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

Why would it be? No further action was taken. If true then it should play no part in their decision.

Arrested for a driving offence and no further action vs arrested for a serious assault / domestic violence / other significant crime where the victim or whatever didn’t want to proceed or not enough evidence is a significant difference and I imagine would be a very different outcome. 
 

As usual in these threads, without the details, it’s impossible to answer. 

4 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Why didn't you ask who the second person was?

Did you offer tea and GOOD biscuits?

What biscuits do FEO‘s like best? 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Proper chocolate hobnobs.  

 

Not the Lidl copies.  

[Bailey20]

7 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Why didn't you ask who the second person was?

Did you offer tea and GOOD biscuits?

No but as the FEO was on older gentleman and the other officer was younger I just assumed trainee.

I offered tea but they politely declined, which I was a bit  gutted by,  as I had just spent a 5er on a box of fox's 😂

5 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, to me the FEO would have most support for an application but it still needs signing off , Who is your Police Authority ??

Well that was my thought, and why go to the expense of interviewing me just to turn the application down?

2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Arrested for a driving offence and no further action vs arrested for a serious assault / domestic violence / other significant crime where the victim or whatever didn’t want to proceed or not enough evidence is a significant difference and I imagine would be a very different outcome. 

No it wasn't a violent crime like assault or DV. I basically got mixed up with some people handling stollen goods. Other than knowing them and what they was up too and going to where the goods where kept,  I hadn't actually done anything but apparently thats enough grounds for an arrest and seach warrent. There was no real risk of prison if things had proceeded to being charged. But like I said I hadn't actually done anything so there was no evidence to fine and I was given NFA.

[Newbie to this]

6 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Arrested for a driving offence and no further action vs arrested for a serious assault / domestic violence / other significant crime where the victim or whatever didn’t want to proceed or not enough evidence is a significant difference and I imagine would be a very different outcome. 

Sorry but the crime bears no meaning. They were not charged or cautioned, it's a simple as that.

Are you saying if you get wrongfully arrested, then that arrest should play a part in you being granted a FAC/SGC....

 

Convictions and offences
13. You must not withhold information about any conviction. This includes motoring offences(including 
speeding offences), binding overs, formal written warnings, cautions and convictions in and outside 
Great Britain, and (by virtue of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) Order 1975) 
convictions which are spent under the 1974 Act. A conditional discharge and an absolute discharge both 
count as convictions for this purpose. Details of parking offences and fixed penalty notices do not need 
to be declared.
14. Section 21 of the Firearms Act 1968 details restrictions on the possession of firearms and 
ammunition by those previously convicted of crime. A person receiving a suspended sentence of 
a minimum duration of three months or more is prohibited from possessing a firearm for five 
years from the second day after sentence.

 

So unless it was a court that discharged them, there is no requirement to inform the police, so the arrest doesn't even need mentioning.

There was no further action, that is the only bit that counts.

 

Edited September 23 by Newbie to this

[Bailey20]

2 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

Sorry but the crime bears no meaning. They were not charged or cautioned, it's a simple as that.

Are you saying if you get wrongfully arrested, then that arrest should play a part in you being granted a FAC/SGC....

 

Convictions and offences
13. You must not withhold information about any conviction. This includes motoring offences(including 
speeding offences), binding overs, formal written warnings, cautions and convictions in and outside 
Great Britain, and (by virtue of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) Order 1975) 
convictions which are spent under the 1974 Act. A conditional discharge and an absolute discharge both 
count as convictions for this purpose. Details of parking offences and fixed penalty notices do not need 
to be declared.
14. Section 21 of the Firearms Act 1968 details restrictions on the possession of firearms and 
ammunition by those previously convicted of crime. A person receiving a suspended sentence of 
a minimum duration of three months or more is prohibited from possessing a firearm for five 
years from the second day after sentence.

 

So unless it was a court that discharged them, there is no requirement to inform the police, so the arrest doesn't even need mentioning.

There was no further action, that is the only bit that counts.

 

I totally agree with you, the case never went any further than an Interview, but the FEO said if I hadn't put it down even if it was NFA they wouldn't have Interviewed me, in an ideal world I wouldn't have needed to put it on the application but I'm glad I did as it has gone on my favour in that respect.

[Newbie to this]

8 hours ago, Bailey20 said:

I totally agree with you, the case never went any further than an Interview, but the FEO said if I hadn't put it down even if it was NFA they wouldn't have Interviewed me, in an ideal world I wouldn't have needed to put it on the application but I'm glad I did as it has gone on my favour in that respect.

You're FEO lied to you. But it all.worked out fine so 👍

Good luck with your shooting.

[Bailey20]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

You're FEO lied to you. But it all.worked out fine so 👍

Good luck with your shooting.

Well I'm not holding my breath untill it lands on the doorstep.

[HantsRob]

19 hours ago, Bailey20 said:

No but as the FEO was on older gentleman and the other officer was younger I just assumed trainee.

I offered tea but they politely declined, which I was a bit  gutted by,  as I had just spent a 5er on a box of fox's 😂

Well that was my thought, and why go to the expense of interviewing me just to turn the application down?

No it wasn't a violent crime like assault or DV. I basically got mixed up with some people handling stollen goods. Other than knowing them and what they was up too and going to where the goods where kept,  I hadn't actually done anything but apparently thats enough grounds for an arrest and seach warrent. There was no real risk of prison if things had proceeded to being charged. But like I said I hadn't actually done anything so there was no evidence to fine and I was given NFA.

Tea and biscuits could be seen as a bribe in a modern era, however Police are allowed to accept "gifts" where there is no sign of it asking for favour or influence. Tea and biscuits are, funnily enough, one to potentially decline due to the nature of the "interview". But factor in if they are going to 8 houses, they may be tea'd out, and they have to mind their waists

Most of the decision making will have been made before they interview you. It is often a formality and a sanity check along with seeing your cabinet is secure, but it could also be to ensure the vibe is different to what's written. A statement about you saying "a rogue who mixes with bad'uns who has a messy home and a cabinet that wobbles and not fully secure" is really negative, rather than "he understands he needs to change the crowd he is social with, and advice given to secure the safe" is the same message but different.

Ultimately your FEO has a sway on how the narative is framed, but the truth is either you are suitable or unsuitable down to a framework and risk analysis. The FEO will present evidence, and an opinion, but the evidence can be reviewed separately. So I would say the FEO has a sway based on opinion of meeting you, but if you are at that point of discussion then it's already debatable as to your suitability.

I feel some negativity in your words of "but apparently that's enough grounds for arrest and search warrent" (sic). If (and no reason to disbelieve you) you are genuinely innocent, there could be a question of how you didn't know your social circle was persons that an upstanding member of society who wishes to own firearms maybe shouldn't socialise with. Or, that whilst not directly linked to the criminality, your friendship with them could mean that you are either involved and hidden well, or maybe being used by them for storage. Finally, your naivety of not knowing they were doing anything could draw a negative picture of you also. I am not saying you are any of those, but having criminality in your social circle and enough links to see you are frequenting with alacrity, would draw you into a picture of a larger OCG. In your own words, you knew they were handling stolen goods, and where it was hidden. This makes you complicit in their crimes, and whilst you may not get a sentence, by that nature you hold part of the crime. You are innocent until proved guilty, but that also means if you are aware of the crimes and locations, that the arrest and search is what will prove your innocence. Or, at least that nothing can be evidenced to the contrary. 

I personally feel that you knowing and socialising with criminals handling stolen goods (or stollen goods at Christmas?) and knowing the detailed movements and storage of said goods, would paint you in a really poor light even if you were NFA'ed. You could infer a link that your suitability is damaged by that, as you could then provide weapons to such a group. But, I also agree that you being interviewed shows that you are being given a fair and impartial chance, and ultimately we only know what you have written.

I wish you no malice and giving an unbiased opinion purely based on what you've written, and wish you the very best in your endeavours. Good luck. I would suggest you cut ties with your friends who are involved in criminality regardless, but I'd say that even if you were just a neighbour.

 

On 23/09/2024 at 07:18, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Why didn't you ask who the second person was?

Did you offer tea and GOOD biscuits?

Agreed that he could have asked, and probably should have!
Also, you know that it never hurts for good hospitality, but has no impact on the outcome! (or, shouldn't!)

4 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

You're FEO lied to you

Agreed, and it would certainly have been brought up.

[Bailey20]

5 hours ago, HantsRob said:

Tea and biscuits could be seen as a bribe in a modern era, however Police are allowed to accept "gifts" where there is no sign of it asking for favour or influence. Tea and biscuits are, funnily enough, one to potentially decline due to the nature of the "interview". But factor in if they are going to 8 houses, they may be tea'd out, and they have to mind their waists

Most of the decision making will have been made before they interview you. It is often a formality and a sanity check along with seeing your cabinet is secure, but it could also be to ensure the vibe is different to what's written. A statement about you saying "a rogue who mixes with bad'uns who has a messy home and a cabinet that wobbles and not fully secure" is really negative, rather than "he understands he needs to change the crowd he is social with, and advice given to secure the safe" is the same message but different.

Ultimately your FEO has a sway on how the narative is framed, but the truth is either you are suitable or unsuitable down to a framework and risk analysis. The FEO will present evidence, and an opinion, but the evidence can be reviewed separately. So I would say the FEO has a sway based on opinion of meeting you, but if you are at that point of discussion then it's already debatable as to your suitability.

I feel some negativity in your words of "but apparently that's enough grounds for arrest and search warrent" (sic). If (and no reason to disbelieve you) you are genuinely innocent, there could be a question of how you didn't know your social circle was persons that an upstanding member of society who wishes to own firearms maybe shouldn't socialise with. Or, that whilst not directly linked to the criminality, your friendship with them could mean that you are either involved and hidden well, or maybe being used by them for storage. Finally, your naivety of not knowing they were doing anything could draw a negative picture of you also. I am not saying you are any of those, but having criminality in your social circle and enough links to see you are frequenting with alacrity, would draw you into a picture of a larger OCG. In your own words, you knew they were handling stolen goods, and where it was hidden. This makes you complicit in their crimes, and whilst you may not get a sentence, by that nature you hold part of the crime. You are innocent until proved guilty, but that also means if you are aware of the crimes and locations, that the arrest and search is what will prove your innocence. Or, at least that nothing can be evidenced to the contrary. 

I personally feel that you knowing and socialising with criminals handling stolen goods (or stollen goods at Christmas?) and knowing the detailed movements and storage of said goods, would paint you in a really poor light even if you were NFA'ed. You could infer a link that your suitability is damaged by that, as you could then provide weapons to such a group. But, I also agree that you being interviewed shows that you are being given a fair and impartial chance, and ultimately we only know what you have written.

I wish you no malice and giving an unbiased opinion purely based on what you've written, and wish you the very best in your endeavours. Good luck. I would suggest you cut ties with your friends who are involved in criminality regardless, but I'd say that even if you were just a neighbour.

 

Agreed that he could have asked, and probably should have!
Also, you know that it never hurts for good hospitality, but has no impact on the outcome! (or, shouldn't!)

Agreed, and it would certainly have been brought up.

No I couldn't stress enough that I haven't debt with these people since my arrest, have moved to a different area and am now a family man with, my boy my number 1 priority.

 

No I appreciate your opinion and that kind of outsider perspective on the metter is what I'm looking for.

 

PS. I always offer a cupper, be it the police or anyone else, it's just good manners 😂

Edited September 24 by Bailey20

[London Best]

14 minutes ago, Bailey20 said:

I always offer a cupper, be it the police or anyone else, it's just good manners 

This.
Nothing to do with offering a bribe or trying to influence a decision.

[Bailey20]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

This.
Nothing to do with offering a bribe or trying to influence a decision.

I'd like to think it would take more than a packet of hobnobs to bribe our boys in blue😂

[HantsRob]

13 hours ago, Bailey20 said:

I'd like to think it would take more than a packet of hobnobs to bribe our boys in blue😂

I'll say this tongue in cheek, but a refusal to drink your cuppa or eat your hobnobs speaks bigger volumes
I will politely suggest it was due to them eating too many, and their partner telling them to stop eating so many!

16 hours ago, Bailey20 said:

No I couldn't stress enough that I haven't debt with these people since my arrest, have moved to a different area and am now a family man with, my boy my number 1 priority.

Sounds like you've made the right steps, emotionally and physically separating from troubles.

Wishing you and your family all the best.

[Westley]

16 hours ago, Bailey20 said:

I'd like to think it would take more than a packet of hobnobs to bribe our boys in blue😂

Just don't mention 'DOUGHNUTS'  though   !    😂😂

[Fil]

On 23/09/2024 at 08:27, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, to me the FEO would have most support for an application but it still needs signing off , Who is your Police Authority ??

I totally agree with the above. It's how it normally works. 

On 22/09/2024 at 23:09, scarecrow243 said:

the feo is only there to do the paper work its the same when you get a police constable doing the visit  its down to the chief constable 

Not strictly speaking. The FEO has the most influence. The Head of Firearms would normally only disagree or interject with the FEO under more extreme circumstances. But they do have to sign it off and yes they are the last to make the decision. 

[scarecrow243]

the feo is only there to do the paper work just like any police officer believe me i have had problems with both but when i have had to i have contacted the chief constable and got it sorted some feo's think they can bully you but they can't

[Fil]

27 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said:

the feo is only there to do the paper work just like any police officer believe me i have had problems with both but when i have had to i have contacted the chief constable and got it sorted some feo's think they can bully you but they can't

I deal with both from several forces on a weekly basis and yes, some are bullies who think they are god giving out sweets. The chief has the final say.  Feo's do the paperwork, the footwork and make their reccomendation. Which gets okay'd or over ruled by the chief. I have had to go to chief to tell feo's to pipe down. They are not god. Bring them to task professionally. 

And don't ever let them ask you "what is your reason for wanting a shotgun?" You tell them them you are applying for a shotgun certificate, not a sec 1 firearm. I do not need "good reason." They hate it. Some feo's are trying to bring "good reason" through the back door.