Minky Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 What actually constitutes a firearm. ?..... A trigger guard. ? A butt plate.? The firing pins. ? The stock.? At what point does a random collection of bits become a shotgun / rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 Defined in the Home Office Guidance so that be a good place to look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyH Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 I always thought that the action and firing pins made it a firearm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 (edited) I thought it was any barreled device capable of firing a projectile. Edited November 19 by Dave-G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minky Posted November 19 Author Report Share Posted November 19 5 minutes ago, grahamch said: Defined in the Home Office Guidance so that be a good place to look Anyone got a link. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cawdor118 Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 Definition of ‘firearm’ and ‘lethal barrelled weapon’ 2.3 Section 57 of the principal Act (as amended) defines a ‘firearm’ as (i) a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged with kinetic energy of more than one joule at the muzzle of the weapon (ii) a prohibited weapon (iii) any relevant component part (see below and Chapter 12) of such a lethal barrelled or prohibited weapon, and (iv) any accessory to a lethal barrelled or prohibited weapon designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by firing the weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 and any part with a serial number Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 (edited) 20 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said: and any part with a serial number No. The fore-end on most shotguns is serial numbered. It is not subject to control. The very very rough rule of thumb for civilian market weapons used to be if it is a so called "pressure bearing surface" and so when the weapon goes to proof is given a proof mark. Even so there are exceptions...it could be argued that the stirrup on a Webley break open revolver is a pressure bearing surface yet on civilian market Webley revolvers it does not. And yet the bolt head on a Lee Enfield is subject to civilian proof (as is the barrel, receiver and bolt body but I've known them, bolt heads, not be subject to control. Edited November 19 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 shotguns are not classed as a fire arm till its been used in an offence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 7 hours ago, scarecrow243 said: shotguns are not classed as a fire arm till its been used in an offence Really? Do you have a link for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 you don't need a link the certificate is called a shotgun certificate not a firearm certificate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 6 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said: you don't need a link the certificate is called a shotgun certificate not a firearm certificate But you have stated that "shotguns are not classed as a fire arm till its been used in an offence" I wondered where you got that from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 when anybody commits an offence with a shotgun then the courts call it a firearm as does the media any other time its called a shotgun even when you are applying for a shotgun certificate the f.e.o even call it your application for a shotgun certificate not a firearm i am a holder of all 3 certificates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 BUT, they are, in the "eyes of the Law" ALL Firearms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minky Posted November 20 Author Report Share Posted November 20 (edited) 13 hours ago, Minky said: What actually constitutes a firearm. ?..... A trigger guard. ? A butt plate.? The firing pins. ? The stock.? At what point does a random collection of bits become a shotgun / rifle. Thanks very much for all the replies. Right, I have a shotgun ( one of many) that I shoot very well with but it has ratty metalwork but good wood. What I would like to do is completely dismantle this gun, and dispose of the barrels and the action thus getting the serial number off of my shotgun certificate. keeping all useful mechanical parts such as screws, springs, stock etc as spares which may at some time be useful for a replacement gun. So a like for like replacement. What's the general consensus on that. Ps. The gun that I have has very little financial value and it wouldn't matter if a grinder was put on it and cut up to render it no longer usable. I just shoot very well with it. Edited November 20 by Minky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 13 hours ago, scarecrow243 said: shotguns are not classed as a fire arm till its been used in an offence Really. 3 hours ago, scarecrow243 said: you don't need a link the certificate is called a shotgun certificate not a firearm certificate Fil bangs head against wall. Parody right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoventryWire Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 1 hour ago, Minky said: Thanks very much for all the replies. Right, I have a shotgun ( one of many) that I shoot very well with but it has ratty metalwork but good wood. What I would like to do is completely dismantle this gun, and dispose of the barrels and the action thus getting the serial number off of my shotgun certificate. keeping all useful mechanical parts such as screws, springs, stock etc as spares which may at some time be useful for a replacement gun. So a like for like replacement. What's the general consensus on that. Ps. The gun that I have has very little financial value and it wouldn't matter if a grinder was put on it and cut up to render it no longer usable. I just shoot very well with it. I did this, took all the wood, firing pins and springs out of a William Evans SxS, left the barrels, action and triggers etc together. Took it down to the main police station and handed it in and got a reference number. Sent that reference number via e-mail with an explanation and some pictures to my FEO and they took it off my licence. Job done. My advice would be to actually only keep what you will actually use, like wood, firing pins and springs, all the screws sears and hemmers etc are realistically never going to need to be reused as spares, so for simplicity just keep as little as you actually need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minky Posted November 20 Author Report Share Posted November 20 Thanks for the reply. What I was told when I first started work as an apprentice mechanical engineer was.. to do things, you have to have things to do things with !!. In regards to the above reply regarding hammers etc I have got a 20 bore that had to have a hammer replaced because it wouldn't cock. And on the gun that I want to replace it broke a mainspring on the righthand during a vermin shoot. I went to shoot a squirrels grey and nothing happened. I never loose off the action on an empty chamber... dry fire, so until something breaks or disappears you never really know what you are potentially going to need. Still the way things are going we won't have guns for. Many More years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downforce Posted November 22 Report Share Posted November 22 (edited) I am not a lawyer so satisfy yourself of the laws and this doesn’t constitute advice to anyone but my understanding is as follows….. Is a shotgun a firearm ? Well they are defined within section two of the firearms act and top right of your SGC it probably says “firearms form 204” - so I’ll let that go at that point! There’s two separate things to consider 1) A firearm 2) A controlled component A stun gun as in Taser is covered by the Firearms act so realistically trying to think of “what is a firearm” in the method of “when do a collection of components become a firearm” is probably not a really good way to think about it. A Taser has none of those things no pressure bearing parts but you can still be prosecuted under the firearms act for possession, and in the eyes of the law it’s a firearm. If you consider the function rather than the construction** that’s more in line with the law. Components that are not controlled (in UK) can be freely purchased by anyone such as stock hand guards triggers hammers springs magazines* but If you want to buy controlled components such as a barrel, bolt, receiver etc (commonly understood to be “pressure bearing parts” as already mentioned) you need it on your FAC or if it’s a shotgun barrel action or whatever needs to be written on the SGC * it’s interesting that magazines are explicitly stated as not being controlled in the firearms act or the respective guidelines because in a S1 shotgun the magazine can be removed and can hold more than two shots but go ask an RFD to sell you a Glock 17 mag - no problem Try the same for a pump/semi automatic shotgun magazine and I think you will find more eyebrow raising going on I think the law says you can buy a magazine but some RFD had told me I need to show a S1 shotgun FAC to buy a mag tube capable of more than 2 rounds ** The other thing to consider is that the overall length and barrel length are in some cases the difference between a firearm/shotgun being a section two, section one or section five - so two otherwise identical 9mm garden guns can be a S2 or S1 just by having a shorter barrel and two otherwise identical pump action shotguns can be a S2 or a S5 (prohibited) if the barrel is shorter Conclusion for me is that if you own any kind of firearm including deactivated or obsolete you should try and get a good working knowledge of the laws - although they are written in gobble-a-duke (thanks Baldrick) once you get your head around how they are written and what is law and what is guidance (and what’s old wives tales) you’ll be doing yourself a favour when your ticket gets renewed. PS don’t forget other laws also apply in this space such as the Violent Crime Reduction Act and the Explosives Act - as well as don’t forget to read the text on the FAC/SGC and the home office firearms guidelines phew! Edited November 22 by Downforce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 22 Report Share Posted November 22 PHEW, indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted November 22 Report Share Posted November 22 5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: PHEW, indeed. Yup ! But all descriptions are incorrect,,,, THIS is the correct answer. 👍😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted November 22 Report Share Posted November 22 (edited) 2 hours ago, JKD said: But all descriptions are incorrect,,,, THIS is the correct answer. 👍😂 But it isn't a fire arm unless there's one of these? Surely? Until then isn't it just an arm. That's on fire? A flaming arm but not a fire arm. For as, as they say, "It's not a fire arm if there's no a fence..." Edited November 22 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 22 Report Share Posted November 22 Now there is a lot of NIT PICKING going on.......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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