National campaign launched to tackle firearm certificate fraud

[Sweet11-87]

18 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

The NCA is not publishing figures on this. Maybe just trust NCA because BASC is trusting them? This is the zone where paranoia creeps in, and has crept in on this forum across myriad topics. 

im sorry Conner but as a BASC member and strong supporter .  "just trust them/us youre being paranoid after asking for a bit more information isnt something i will be getting into the habit of doing ill not be in BASCs corner for this one sadly.  and im suprised basc is touting the line with an apparent lack of interest in its validity or figures. just strikes me as the first thing as you'd ask when approached and asked for help on the matter

Edited Monday at 20:56 by Sweet11-87

[Down South]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

This is your first comment on this thread. What will you do in relation to the NCA awareness raising campaign given your concerns?

I think you misread my earlier post, personally I’m not concerned by the NCA alert, I’ll go with the flow regarding anything that affects my shooting. Shooting and field craft is still a great pleasure and it allows me to forget all the nonsense that prevails in everyday life let alone politics and state control. My real concern is your arrogance toward some PW members labelling them as paranoid conspiracy………………, you know the phrase, you wrote it. This is now my second post on this topic. What are you going to do about it?

[Konor]

1 minute ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

That's fine by me - at least you are one of the few actually acting on your concerns. And yes, I don't foresee any further communications from BASC on this, unless the NCA issues another intelligence-led alert and then I envisage we will share that.

 

Happy to share ,reluctant to question.

It appears from your comments that you are more comfortable having others take the lead in opposition.
Leading by example and questioning the appropriateness of highlighting what seems to be scaremongering regarding the acquisition of firearms by criminals when no statistics are offered to substantiate the claim might prove a more successful tactic in acting in the best interests of shooters.

It would be better if our representatives showed more willingness to question the motives of others rather than assume that threats to our sport has its roots in paranoia . If a united front was shown for example in opposing further restrictions on lead shot use, perhaps in turn you would see for example an increase in support for any restrictions proposed in driven grouse shooting. One can hardly complain about the lack of support for driven grouse shooting when you yourself have shown no support for the continuation of the use of lead shot inland.

We must unite together against all opposition or we are destined to be weakened by only supporting the interests of our own branch of the sport.

[Conor O'Gorman]

13 minutes ago, ehb102 said:

The fact that you consider protecting the rights of women and gay people trolling is pretty disturbing - but not surprising given your track record of promoting gender ideology over our legal sex based rights. More fuzzy thinking on your part.  

You are trolling the Royal Legion on your twitter account. Why are you bringing gender politics into this discussion about the NCA campaign? 

11 minutes ago, Sweet11-87 said:

im sorry Conner but as a BASC member and strong supporter .  "just trust them/us youre being paranoid after asking for a bit more information isnt something i will be getting into the habit of doing ill not be in BASCs corner for this one sadly.  and im suprised basc is touting the line with an apparent lack of interest in its validity or figures. just strikes me as the first thing as you'd ask when approached and asked for help on the matter

I guess we will just have to agree to agree personally on this one. That said perhaps email firearms@basc.org.uk with your concerns and see what comes back?

[Conor O'Gorman]

11 minutes ago, Down South said:

I think you misread my earlier post, personally I’m not concerned by the NCA alert, I’ll go with the flow regarding anything that affects my shooting. Shooting and field craft is still a great pleasure and it allows me to forget all the nonsense that prevails in everyday life let alone politics and state control. My real concern is your arrogance toward some PW members labelling them as paranoid conspiracy………………, you know the phrase, you wrote it. This is now my second post on this topic. What are you going to do about it?

I would suggest we have a chat on the phone to discuss this. Are you up for that? 

[Konor]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

This is your first comment on this thread and it begins with a personal insult. Later in this thread you mention a tweet to NCA and I see on your twitter account that you have also been using that account to troll the Royal Legion. Charming.

I find it disturbing that you choose to mention a PW members Twitter account activity which has no relevance to the NCA thread being discussed

[Scully]

33 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

 

True, I trust what the NCA stated. Why do you not trust the NCA? What gave you reason to mistrust the NCA?

To be honest I had no reason to distrust the NCA until they refused to answer my query in their reply to my email. Prior to that I had no reason to distrust the NCA any further than I would distrust any other government created/funded body which can influence matters relating to the public ownership of firearms. 
I can’t understand why any shooting organisation would blindly believe any statements issued by a government body ( and this includes the Police ) with a vested interest in reducing the numbers of firearms in public ownership, and consider it naive beyond belief to do so. 
Why do you trust the NCA? 

[Conor O'Gorman]

11 minutes ago, Scully said:

To be honest I had no reason to distrust the NCA until they refused to answer my query in their reply to my email. Prior to that I had no reason to distrust the NCA any further than I would distrust any other government created/funded body which can influence matters relating to the public ownership of firearms. 
I can’t understand why any shooting organisation would blindly believe any statements issued by a government body ( and this includes the Police ) with a vested interest in reducing the numbers of firearms in public ownership, and consider it naive beyond belief to do so. 
Why do you trust the NCA? 

I have discussed this with colleagues today and I have no reason not to trust the NCA. 

15 minutes ago, Konor said:

I find it disturbing that you choose to mention a PW members Twitter account activity which has no relevance to the NCA thread being discussed

Your posts are quickly racking up and usually you end up with the most posts and last comment on every thread you engage in. There are proven links between paranoia and OCD and you may wish to look into that - or ask a family member or friend.

[Down South]

17 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I would suggest we have a chat on the phone to discuss this. Are you up for that? 

Thanks for the offer but I’ve nothing more to discuss on this topic either privately or in open forum.

[Scully]

10 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I have discussed this with colleagues today and I have no reason not to trust the NCA. 
That just about sums up BASC’s entire attitude….non-committal and avoidance of a direct question. 

Your posts are quickly racking up and usually you end up with the most posts and last comment on every thread you engage in. There are proven links between paranoia and OCD and you may wish to look into that - or ask a family member or friend.…and if that doesn’t prove my point I don’t know what would, plus adding a personal insult which would quite possibly get anyone else banned. 

 

 

[Sweet11-87]

32 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I have discussed this with colleagues today and I have no reason not to trust the NCA. 

 

its not that i distrust  the NCA it simply strikes me as odd that when approached with a request for help  BASC and the shooting community it represents that nobody thought to request more information on a professional level as to provide substance and clarity to something they intended to rebroadcast on behalf of. Even on a personal level. Who involved in shooting doesn't want to know more about the topic? if for no reason but curiosity?.

and to compound that when prompted with the request to ask for more information  the NCA has stonewalled any request and BASC and yourself seem reluctant to even broach the question.

may i ask what it was you and your colleagues discussed today that lead you all to  the conclusion that no information is better than any information and to proceed full steam ahead with full trust?.

perplexes me that you see this request as somehow strange and that you're replying in what id call an aggressively defensive way. your beginning to role in the mud with people by bringing up the royal legion twitter thing you're bordering on the edge of doxing PW members and thats dodgy ground

 

Edited Monday at 22:03 by Sweet11-87

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Ever since you (Connor) posted this story just before Christmas we have asked for some figures so that we can decide whether there has been a substantial increase.

You state it is from the NCA and BASC don't have them.

Several people have contacted the NCA and it replies that it is NOT a public body and will not release the information.

Is it any wonder that we are suspicious of the NCA's figures that they will not release?

Without some meat around the bones how do we know it has been a substantial increase?

Edited Monday at 22:13 by TIGHTCHOKE

[Konor]

32 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Your posts are quickly racking up and usually you end up with the most posts and last comment on every thread you engage in. There are proven links between paranoia and OCD and you may wish to look into that - or ask a family member or friend.

Rather than being offended by your gauche remarks. I’m quite happy that you choose to demonstrate your character. Perhaps you could concentrate on answering points raised on the forum regarding your failure to act in the best interests of shooters that you claim to be the voice of rather than opting instead to deflect from your lack of credibility by insulting fellow forum members. 

[Konor]

45 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

There are proven links between paranoia and OCD and you may wish to look into that - or ask a family member or friend.

I fail to see any evidence of paranoia however when supposed representatives of BASC choose to post opinions that contradict official BASC policy ,as explained in its Mission statement ,it’s time to question their motives and more importantly have those responsible explain that contradiction without them resorting to changing the subject or throwing baseless accusations around.

From your posts it seems your main interest is the protection of commercial shooting, the same commercial shooting that by its excesses fuels much of the opposition to the sport.
It would be refreshing if your posts reflected more support for the more sustainable branches of our sport that portray shooting in a much better light. The more sustainable branches of our sport are more vulnerable to restrictions aimed at reducing shooter numbers. After all there will always be monied guns to support the commercial big bag shoots but young lads and lassies coming into rough shooting are more vulnerable. Having to pay increased fees for certificates, providing cabinets for security ,paying increased costs for ammunition due to restrictions on which ammunition is considered suitable to have our sport continue all before sourcing affordable shooting opportunities impacts disproportionately on young shooters robbing them of the opportunity to make memories that my generation took for granted. It should be remembered that not all youngsters have middle classed parents willing to subsidise their sport.
 You may see your paranoia accusations as justifiable ,I just see it as a weak excuse to avoid giving a straight answer to a straight question, yet again.

[SxS]

This is a truly astonishing thread: amazing to see BASC, when very reasonably asked about whether they had sought statistics to understand the extent of the problem, go on the offensive against those raising such queries. 

How on earth can the correct response have been anything other than “we’ve reached out to the NCA in an effort to better understand the scale of the problem”???  

The information received, which would likely be much more forthcoming to BASC than to a private individual making a similar request, would be genuinely helpful in helping address either public perceptions or making shooters realise the true extent of a problem (that, right now, few believe really exists at any significant level).  

Instead it’s been personal attacks, accusations of paranoia, and folk effectively told to go away/do it themselves (in spite of some having tried and been fobbed off).

BASC really should reflect on their position on this…

 

[Konor]

51 minutes ago, SxS said:

BASC really should reflect on their position on this…

It wouldn’t surprise me given the nature of the replies to the concerns raised that it is less a reflection of BASC’s position but more a reflection of personal opinion from a frustrated employee in need of support. Perhaps a toxic environment within BASC and a lack of strong leadership has led to the confusing and contradictory stances taken by staff.

A straightforward defence of any threat to shooters activities and their ability to carry out those activities would be welcome rather than trying to appease our opponents in what seems to be an effort to ingratiate themselves either with the government or those that oppose our sport.. Strong leadership in defence of our sport from BASC would surely result in much more support than is witnessed on both this and the Stalking Directory forums.  The seeming lack of willingness to oppose restrictions  to what for many is a way of life rather than a hobby is disappointing and is the source of the perception that we are being let down. That we should be represented by individuals who rather than strive to lead are content to spectate as we face possibly the largest threat to our sport is not an illusion or a product of paranoia . The numerous argumentative threads that involve BASC’s defence of our sport are a product of genuine concern that “the voice of shooting” is not listening.

[Pushandpull]

The nature and magnitude of this "surge" are entirely reasonable and legitimate concerns. Surely BASC has at least one friendly M.P. who is capable of pursuing this. Henry Bellingham, a keen shot and wildfowling club president, would have been one such but he has retired.

[Rewulf]

4 hours ago, SxS said:

BASC really should reflect on their position on this

Well said.

Unfortunately our basc representatives feels the appropriate response is to accuse us of mental illness and paranoia, pretend he's been insulted, and stalk a female members Twitter account, to see if there's any dirt in there to counter with..

[jall25]

20 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

That's disappointing. I have had no queries, it's as simple as that - why do you doubt my integrity - have I not replied to every email you sent me over the years on innumerable topics and queries?

You did contact the NCA and had a response. Now what will you do?

Conor - re-read this thread - people ask things and you don't answer 

Yes you have replied to me on many topics 

In your role you should stop being so defensive

[Conor O'Gorman]

2 hours ago, jall25 said:

Conor - re-read this thread - people ask things and you don't answer 

Yes you have replied to me on many topics 

In your role you should stop being so defensive

Thanks, if anyone has any questions on the NCA campaign they can contact the NCA. If anyone has questions about BASC raising awareness of the NCA campaign then BASC members can email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk and I will pass that onto colleagues for consideration.