.410 non toxic home loads

[BobbyH]

Hey all,

I have been loading steel .410 recently using plastic wads.

Im after a new outcome, I have some fibre wads, some cork waxed wads and plastic wads.

I have already loaded 13 gram steel with plastic was as said above,But - For it to be fully non toxic, I need to use either fibre or cork wads.

I know that the steel pellets will be in contact with the barrel, but that’s by the by and I can’t get around that.

 

The gun I’ll be using is my steel proofed hatsan .410 pump….

As far as I’m aware, no one has any fibre or cork .410 steel rounds that are not £1500 a thousand.

Any advice, queries or comments?

 

Ill load them tomorrow and test fire in a week or so when im next in the range.

[old'un]

If the walls on your 410 are thick at the muzzle, around 3mm+, then all you might see is pickup but that could build up over time.

[BobbyH]

The whole barrel a including the chamber are thick.

Question is, if I use cork or fibre wads, would I need to use overshot or nitro cards?

 

Because, I’m just going to load the correct amount of gunpowder I know works well (and has been tested), some cork wads, and around 13-14grams of steel shot. 
 

This would then give me a fully non toxic .410 cartridge at roughly £72.87 per 250 instead of £370 per 250 for Bismuth shot

[old'un]

15 minutes ago, BobbyH said:

The whole barrel a including the chamber are thick.

Question is, if I use cork or fibre wads, would I need to use overshot or nitro cards?

 

Because, I’m just going to load the correct amount of gunpowder I know works well (and has been tested), some cork wads, and around 13-14grams of steel shot. 
 

This would then give me a fully non toxic .410 cartridge at roughly £72.87 per 250 instead of £370 per 250 for Bismuth shot

I would think you just load as you would lead, pickup will be your biggest problem.

[bruno22rf]

Dont know anything about this but could you not use a 10mm dia cardboard tube to encase the steel shot?

[joejoe]

Would reloading bismuth be worth while in a .410 you use less shot so it will be cheaper than 12 bore? 
 

I just got give a .410 last year but I would like to use it with my son when he is old enough.

[BobbyH]

I’m not sure how much Bismuth is in bulk to be honest. 

[islandgun]

4 hours ago, BobbyH said:

The whole barrel a including the chamber are thick.

Question is, if I use cork or fibre wads, would I need to use overshot or nitro cards?

 

Because, I’m just going to load the correct amount of gunpowder I know works well (and has been tested), some cork wads, and around 13-14grams of steel shot. 
 

This would then give me a fully non toxic .410 cartridge at roughly £72.87 per 250 instead of £370 per 250 for Bismuth shot

I think you would need nitro cards as a powder seal and osc if rto, or likewise for crimp if using small shot.  both are relatively easy to make if you get the right diameter pipe, when you find the ideal material for nitro card please let me know..😉

[BobbyH]

I’m not sure how much Bismuth is in bulk to be honest. 
 

so far. I have loaded one with powder, then a cork wad, then shot and 6 point crimp. 
No OSC or nitro card…..

The cork wad apparently doesn’t need a nitro card so I have read 

[Bernard]

16 minutes ago, BobbyH said:

I’m not sure how much Bismuth is in bulk to be honest. 
 

so far. I have loaded one with powder, then a cork wad, then shot and 6 point crimp. 
No OSC or nitro card…..

The cork wad apparently doesn’t need a nitro card so I have read 

You can get bismuth shipped from the US or China at around 35-40 a Kg. The prices in UK shotgun reloading shops are absurdly marked up.

 

I've found the chrome on hatsan 410s to be serious stuff. Small steel shot effects just polish out. 

Edited Saturday at 22:38 by Bernard

[islandgun]

31 minutes ago, BobbyH said:

 

The cork wad apparently doesn’t need a nitro card so I have read 

You have answered your own question, fire off a few at some thick magazines to test penetration against factory loads. If satisfied I'm sure there are quite a few on here would be interested in your results

[BobbyH]

Ahhh decent!!

Ill make some more up tomorrow and get them fired off, with safety squints too haha!

[old'un]

11 hours ago, Bernard said:

 

I've found the chrome on hatsan 410s to be serious stuff. Small steel shot effects just polish out. 

I see the barrels are made from Nickel, Molybdenum steel and Chrome plated, Nickel, Molybdenum steel is tough steel but how long before you polish the Chrome plating out?

Obviously it will depend on what you are using to polish out any signs of iron deposit in the barrel.

Or are we talking about normal wad deposits that clean out with a wire brush?

[mellors]

All we need is the non toxic wads everything else is available. 

Surely they are doable at a reasonable price, the joker steel card wads are made somewhere so 20, 28 and 410 gauges must be possible at a reasonable price I'm sure the sales volumes would make it worth it. 

Opportunity for someone out there. 

 

[Bernard]

2 hours ago, mellors said:

All we need is the non toxic wads everything else is available. 

Surely they are doable at a reasonable price, the joker steel card wads are made somewhere so 20, 28 and 410 gauges must be possible at a reasonable price I'm sure the sales volumes would make it worth it. 

Opportunity for someone out there. 

 

The Jocker small bore wads are due in the UK in March

[BobbyH]

1 hour ago, Bernard said:

The Jocker small bore wads are due in the UK in March

That could be a game changer!

[Ultrastu]

Very interested in this .as I mainly shoot .410 these days. And would love a decent  steel load with eco wad for the pigeons .

I'd like to see 16 grms of no 7 steel  doing around 1300 fps .

[BobbyH]

I will try a 16 gram load…..I can imagine I’ll use a 8mm wad 

2 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Very interested in this .as I mainly shoot .410 these days. And would love a decent  steel load with eco wad for the pigeons .

I'd like to see 16 grms of no 7 steel  doing around 1300 fps 

[Smudger687]

On 18/01/2025 at 17:06, BobbyH said:

Hey all,

I have been loading steel .410 recently using plastic wads.

Im after a new outcome, I have some fibre wads, some cork waxed wads and plastic wads.

I have already loaded 13 gram steel with plastic was as said above,But - For it to be fully non toxic, I need to use either fibre or cork wads.

I know that the steel pellets will be in contact with the barrel, but that’s by the by and I can’t get around that.

 

The gun I’ll be using is my steel proofed hatsan .410 pump….

As far as I’m aware, no one has any fibre or cork .410 steel rounds that are not £1500 a thousand.

Any advice, queries or comments?

 

Ill load them tomorrow and test fire in a week or so when im next in the range.

Jocker are manufacturing paper wads for all the common gauges from 10 gauge to .410. Their 12 and 20 gauge ranges were recently imported and distributed to the UK homeloading market. Initial performance reports are very positive.

The plan is for the other gauges to follow in a few months. If you can hold on for a bit you'll be able to get hold of them.

News of their arrival will be on the non-toxic loaders UK Facebook page if you're interested. 

[BobbyH]

28 minutes ago, Smudger687 said:

Jocker are manufacturing paper wads for all the common gauges from 10 gauge to .410. Their 12 and 20 gauge ranges were recently imported and distributed to the UK homeloading market. Initial performance reports are very positive.

The plan is for the other gauges to follow in a few months. If you can hold on for a bit you'll be able to get hold of them.

News of their arrival will be on the non-toxic loaders UK Facebook page if you're interested. 

Sounds good! 
I am not on Facebook though, so I do hope I will hear of it somehow!

[rbrowning2]

18 hours ago, Bernard said:

The Jocker small bore wads are due in the UK in March

However they will probably sell for around £180 to £200 a thousand, a DIY wad may still be an idea.

[mellors]

20 hours ago, Bernard said:

The Jocker small bore wads are due in the UK in March

That's good news maybe more innovative biodegradable wads will come as time goes on. 

 

 

[BobbyH]

3 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

However they will probably sell for around £180 to £200 a thousand, a DIY wad may still be an idea.

That’s true, and if they are say £200. Thousand, that’s silly money!

[TIGHTCHOKE]

And the alternative is?

[Smudger687]

1 hour ago, BobbyH said:

That’s true, and if they are say £200. Thousand, that’s silly money!

It's still miles better than any wad you could make yourself (I've tried), is available to homeloaders (unlike the useless UK manufacturers), and does what it says on the tin - good performance, no issues around barrel protection, legitimately biodegradable, and known shelf-life characteristics. 

Tell me anything else that even comes remotely close.

Joker have made biowads for every gauge. UK manufacturers only for 12 and 20. They deserve to make money on these wads, 20p each isn't the end of the world, and is a lot cheaper than bismuth!