BASC selling off the family silver.

[Pinkfooty]

I need to find out more about this before I comment on a public Forum

 

Yes BASC is involved in promoting "country sports tourism" but I am not sure it is being paid for from members' subscriptions.

 

But I am worried that UK shooters eventually lose out because overseas visitors push prices up and reduce availability to the resident sportsman.

 

I suppose my bottom line is that it is not the job of BASC to promote shooting for foreign visitors. It is the job of BASC to protect the sport (or what remains of it) for our members.

 

I should know more by the end of the week.

[Tam]

Eric, I believe that there is a shooters evening in Livingston this week

[starlight32]

Maybe you cannot remember the days when farmers used to pay us for our cartridges to shoot pigeoins. These days are long gone thanks to the foreigners and their like.

 

 

....and the farmers would have told the foreigners and the UK based agents to "Go away !" with their dosh wouldn`t they eh!

 

These things are never as cut and dried as some would make us believe. Imagine being a farmer and working the hours they do for the pittance they get and then someone says, "You shouldn`t let Mr.Johnny Foreigner shoot here Mr. Giles with his evil money, you should allow me, a local shooter to shoot this here local farm for nothing !"

 

I know what my local farmers would say........2 words 3 F`s.

 

yes the farmers have it tough without a doubt,and yes if they have the chance of some reel money they are going to take it,but it still makes it hard to swallow knowing how hard it is to get shooting to start with for average joe without having to compete with commercial shooting,don't you think..

 

 

Farmers have it tough- Get a grip mate!!!!!! They are the most shrewd businessmen in the book. Look at grain prices now £220.00 a tonne? Then look back to the 80's when it was £160 a tonne. What about all the grants and subsidies then? There has been only one time farmers had it bad- During and after the war years when they were totally controlled by the state. I come from a family of farmers, although I will admit I don't farm myself. I know all the tricks too.

 

Ask me this then everybody- Where do all the tasty motors and plant come from?

 

I ain't decrying the hard work the farming community puts in- But then again most of us on this forum are working class and we all know as well the meaning of hard work too.

 

Remember the old saying ' You never see a poor farmer'

 

And I certainly am not taking in by there acclaimed hardship either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lock&load]

yes the farmers have it tough without a doubt,and yes if they have the chance of some reel money they are going to take it,but it still makes it hard to swallow knowing how hard it is to get shooting to start with for average joe without having to compete with commercial shooting,don't you think..

 

Do you feel that way about all commercial shooting, or just that involving foriegn sportsmen?

 

By far the majority of people using the 'comercial shooting' are from this country.

 

i geuss if i was to be honest i would say mainly all commercial shooting but i accept that there will always be those who cant wont or have not got time to gain permissions and therefor they are happy to pay,in such creating the oppertunity for commercial shooting but to bring even more into the country on a commercial level makes it even more of a pet hate for me i suppose,but you must understand as such thes are my own opinions and i accept that not all will agree . really!!!

[henry d]

Remember the old saying ' You never see a poor farmer'

 

I did, and he was dead of a heart attack in his tractor aged 79 and his farm was almost taken from his sister who was left alone with the debts and only kept afloat by the actions of her nephew. Why use such a broad brush to slap the tar.

[starlight32]

yes the farmers have it tough without a doubt,and yes if they have the chance of some reel money they are going to take it,but it still makes it hard to swallow knowing how hard it is to get shooting to start with for average joe without having to compete with commercial shooting,don't you think..

 

Do you feel that way about all commercial shooting, or just that involving foriegn sportsmen?

 

By far the majority of people using the 'comercial shooting' are from this country.

 

i geuss if i was to be honest i would say mainly all commercial shooting but i accept that there will always be those who cant wont or have not got time to gain permissions and therefor they are happy to pay,in such creating the oppertunity for commercial shooting but to bring even more into the country on a commercial level makes it even more of a pet hate for me i suppose,but you must understand as such thes are my own opinions and i accept that not all will agree . really!!!

 

As far as I'm concerned when it comes to pigeon guides I think the day of reckoning will come due to the grey area of shooting for payment. It is then that we will all suffer......

 

There will be a test case over all this believe it or not- It will just be a matter of time.

 

But at the present in this world there are aways people who make money out of others misfortune in life- From the plumber who rips off the little old lady, The builder who does defective works and even those who lend money to people who are short and want to buy the kids something ofr christmas.

 

My father had a very good old saying ' There is people in life who are born to pick the plums and then there are others who are born to own the tree'

 

Never a true word said in aworking man's life!!!!!!!!! as it looks like I am only doing the picking

[lock&load]

yes the farmers have it tough without a doubt,and yes if they have the chance of some reel money they are going to take it,but it still makes it hard to swallow knowing how hard it is to get shooting to start with for average joe without having to compete with commercial shooting,don't you think..

 

 

Farmers have it tough- Get a grip mate!!!!!! They are the most shrewd businessmen in the book. Look at grain prices now £220.00 a tonne? Then look back to the 80's when it was £160 a tonne. What about all the grants and subsidies then? There has been only one time farmers had it bad- During and after the war years when they were totally controlled by the state. I come from a family of farmers, although I will admit I don't farm myself. I know all the tricks too.

 

Ask me this then everybody- Where do all the tasty motors and plant come from?

 

I ain't decrying the hard work the farming community puts in- But then again most of us on this forum are working class and we all know as well the meaning of hard work too.

 

Remember the old saying ' You never see a poor farmer'

 

And I certainly am not taking in by there acclaimed hardship either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

i dont need to get a grip,but maybe you need to wake up and smell the roses,yes there are exceptions to the rule in farming but to say they are all well off is a misslead generalisation,not one farmer i have permission on has a flash motor or a swankey farm house they have a claped out old lany and you wipe your feet when you come out,ok some may be just tight.but most need the gov subsidies to stay afloat,how much do you think they got when foot and mouth hit,most got very little if owt.

Edited March 9, 2008 by lock&load

[digger]

To answer the question, if the BASC want to spend a small part of my subs promoting the varied and first class sporting opportunities this country has to offer then let them. It boosts local economies with the revenue from accomodation, travel etc and the country as a whole due to the tax they have to bear.

Starlight, do you have any idea of the impact of foot and mouth, with farmers committing suicide as their animals were needlessly slaughtered ? Oddly enough farmers dont just scatter a few seeds and then get £260 a tonne, nor do they sell lamb for the same price as Tescos. And the plant is not always paid for in cash, show me a farmer who owns all his plant outright ?

[starlight32]

To answer the question, if the BASC want to spend a small part of my subs promoting the varied and first class sporting opportunities this country has to offer then let them. It boosts local economies with the revenue from accomodation, travel etc and the country as a whole due to the tax they have to bear.

Starlight, do you have any idea of the impact of foot and mouth, with farmers committing suicide as their animals were needlessly slaughtered ? Oddly enough farmers dont just scatter a few seeds and then get £260 a tonne, nor do they sell lamb for the same price as Tescos. And the plant is not always paid for in cash, show me a farmer who owns all his plant outright ?

 

As I have said- My area where I live was not overly affected by foot and mouth so I cannot comment on hardship caused. My area is mainly arable.

 

Yes I know farmers don't scatter a few seeds for a quick buck- But nevertheless it is still a business where it is handed throught the generations so there is no costs there is there?

 

And as for buying the plant my uncle burns out a beet harvester every other year and buys a new one at 250k cash.

My other uncle has just picked up a new fourtrac at 100k- cash.

 

I know this is true because I went and bought them on their behalf!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lock&load]

To answer the question, if the BASC want to spend a small part of my subs promoting the varied and first class sporting opportunities this country has to offer then let them. It boosts local economies with the revenue from accomodation, travel etc and the country as a whole due to the tax they have to bear.

Starlight, do you have any idea of the impact of foot and mouth, with farmers committing suicide as their animals were needlessly slaughtered ? Oddly enough farmers dont just scatter a few seeds and then get £260 a tonne, nor do they sell lamb for the same price as Tescos. And the plant is not always paid for in cash, show me a farmer who owns all his plant outright ?

 

As I have said- My area where I live was not overly affected by foot and mouth so I cannot comment on hardship caused. My area is mainly arable.

Yes I know farmers don't scatter a few seeds for a quick buck- But nevertheless it is still a business where it is handed throught the generations so there is no costs there is there?

 

And as for buying the plant my uncle burns out a beet harvester every other year and buys a new one at 250k cash.

My other uncle has just picked up a new fourtrac at 100k- cash.

 

I know this is true because I went and bought them on their behalf!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

above i have underlined your statement,and i ask you this .then why make such rash statements if as you say above you can't comment,come up north and see how rich the farming community is i think it may be an eye opener for you mostly dairy and sheep farming

Edited March 9, 2008 by lock&load

[starlight32]

To answer the question, if the BASC want to spend a small part of my subs promoting the varied and first class sporting opportunities this country has to offer then let them. It boosts local economies with the revenue from accomodation, travel etc and the country as a whole due to the tax they have to bear.

Starlight, do you have any idea of the impact of foot and mouth, with farmers committing suicide as their animals were needlessly slaughtered ? Oddly enough farmers dont just scatter a few seeds and then get £260 a tonne, nor do they sell lamb for the same price as Tescos. And the plant is not always paid for in cash, show me a farmer who owns all his plant outright ?

 

As I have said- My area where I live was not overly affected by foot and mouth so I cannot comment on hardship caused. My area is mainly arable.

Yes I know farmers don't scatter a few seeds for a quick buck- But nevertheless it is still a business where it is handed throught the generations so there is no costs there is there?

 

And as for buying the plant my uncle burns out a beet harvester every other year and buys a new one at 250k cash.

My other uncle has just picked up a new fourtrac at 100k- cash.

 

I know this is true because I went and bought them on their behalf!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

above i have underlined your statement,and i ask you this .then why make such rash statements if as you say above you can't comment,come up north and see how rich the farming community is i think it may be an eye opener for you mostly dairy and sheep farming

 

Fair comment and I am not questioning your knowledge of the farming community in your area. But what I am saying which you missed from the earlier post I come from a family of farmers so I know the score when it comes to what sort of income they make. Alright there are farmers and farmers- I would say the ones you come accross are tenant farmers where they do-not own the land they work.

 

Lock and load,

I am not making rash comments at all I am only putting across what I see and have grown up with in the farming community from where I live.

Edited March 9, 2008 by starlight32

[lock&load]

To answer the question, if the BASC want to spend a small part of my subs promoting the varied and first class sporting opportunities this country has to offer then let them. It boosts local economies with the revenue from accomodation, travel etc and the country as a whole due to the tax they have to bear.

Starlight, do you have any idea of the impact of foot and mouth, with farmers committing suicide as their animals were needlessly slaughtered ? Oddly enough farmers dont just scatter a few seeds and then get £260 a tonne, nor do they sell lamb for the same price as Tescos. And the plant is not always paid for in cash, show me a farmer who owns all his plant outright ?

 

As I have said- My area where I live was not overly affected by foot and mouth so I cannot comment on hardship caused. My area is mainly arable.

Yes I know farmers don't scatter a few seeds for a quick buck- But nevertheless it is still a business where it is handed throught the generations so there is no costs there is there?

 

And as for buying the plant my uncle burns out a beet harvester every other year and buys a new one at 250k cash.

My other uncle has just picked up a new fourtrac at 100k- cash.

 

I know this is true because I went and bought them on their behalf!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

above i have underlined your statement,and i ask you this .then why make such rash statements if as you say above you can't comment,come up north and see how rich the farming community is i think it may be an eye opener for you mostly dairy and sheep farming

 

Fair comment and I am not questioning your knowledge of the farming community in your area. But what I am saying which you missed from the earlier post I come from a family of farmers so I know the score when it comes to what sort of income they make. Alright there are farmers and farmers- I would say the ones you come accross are tenant farmers where they do-not own the land they work.

 

Lock and load,

I am not making rash comments at all I am only putting across what I see and have grown up with in the farming community from where I live.

 

i am not trying to belittle what you say and i agree there are farmers and farmers,and some of mine are tenant but most own the land and its a constant struggle most have something else going on like scrap demolition and other things just to keep going,and i admire you putting your hand up and saying that you can only comment on your area ,it just came over as, rather a generalisation.

russ (l&l)

Edited March 9, 2008 by lock&load

[Jimbo57]

So the object of the exercise is to maximise farmers income even if that means they kick off the local shooters and replace them with rich foreigners. Since when was BASC a farmers organisation or a tourist organisation? I thought it was, as pinkfooty (Eric Begbie?) said, an organisation to protect the shooting of its members.

 

Can't blame the farmers but can blame BASC.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Jimbo57

[Pushkin]

Jimbo 57 quoted Yesterday, 07:35 PM

I have just read on another Bulletin Board that BASC has been sending staff to Europe to encourage foreign sportsmen to come to Britain. When it is becoming increasingly hard for local men to find somewhere to shoot, should BASC really be trying to get more foreigners to come over here to shoot our pigeions. Is this how we want our subs spent.

 

WY111 quoted Yesterday, 08:42 PM

He may be referring to This

 

Which if it is - then we need to read the words people before we start having a go. BASC are reporting the event and quote the source of it all as being from these people The Scottish Country Sports Tourism Group (SCSTG).

 

And, if you look further down the article, you will see that BASC are only a part of this group so they aren't spending all your pennies on promoting this. There are other organisiations such as the CA on board with this as well don't hear any members of that group objecting do I? I am not one to defend BASC for any reason but this smacks of sour grapes.

 

Pushkin

[Bloody Yank]

Sooooo........

I can't come shoot with you Jimbo?

Donnie

[Highlander]

I don’t have a problem with foreign shooters coming to the UK, why not we’re renowned the world over for our shooting sports and have been for a century or more. Foreigners share our love of the sport AND what’s more most of them are more than happy to eat what they shoot which is more than can be said for many UK shooters. Besides we’ve been shooting in foreign lands for 100’s of years and still can if you’ve a mind. Tourism comes in many guises!

 

On the pigeon shooting front, well all things change with time, and perhaps the days of FREE sport are going to end one day. Yes it might be a bitter pill to swallow but like everything else in life you’ll get used to it! Unfortunately there's too many people on here who think they have a god given right to FREE, there's also some who bemoan the fact that shooting is so hard to come by but I've shot all my life since I was knee high to a sparrow and I've never had too much trouble finding shooting either free or paid for and if I want it I don't mind paying for it. Even if you've little money there are ways to get into shooting sports all you've gotta do is try AND stop b***** moaning that you can't!

[new to the flock]

So the object of the exercise is to maximise farmers income even if that means they kick off the local shooters and replace them with rich foreigners. Since when was BASC a farmers organisation or a tourist organisation? I thought it was, as pinkfooty (Eric Begbie?) said, an organisation to protect the shooting of its members.

 

Can't blame the farmers but can blame BASC.

 

 

So Jimbo57, what you are saying is the next time I come to the UK I should not buy my Basc insurance, and I should not go pigeon shooting, or rabbiting, or foxing, or stalking. Simply because i do not live there! I see once again the if you are not English you do not belong monster rears its ugly head.

 

Maybe you should contact the Stalking Estates, the Goose Guides, Grouse Estates, Pheasant Estates and yes the evil Pigeon Guides that make a living from the non English shooters and tell them how they are ruining your country and your sport! You may recognize some of them as they are the ones helping to support BASC, The British Deer Society, The Scottish Deer Society and the other groups through their money that they earn from from alot of us non English.

 

NTTF

[CharlieT]

If BASC are to further the cause of "shooting sports" in this country, promote our sport in a favourable light to the greater community and wish to be taken seriously by the powers that be then they (BASC) must be seen to be one of the major players.

 

To achieve this end BASC should join in all discussions and initiatives at local, national and international level.

 

One of the greatest reasons for government to take shooting sports seriously and to not legislate against it is the economic benefit our sport brings to local communities and therefore the country as a whole.

 

BASC by getting involved with all aspects of promoting game shooting, stalking, fishing etc both at home and abroad can do nothing but good. I do not think that we should look at this in the light of they are promoting the flogging off of my shooting to "Jonny Foreigner" rather BASC are securing the future of my sport.

[webber]

I have spoken with David BASC this morning.

 

He shall make an appropriate, researched response later in the day.

 

webber

[al4x]

God a little information on the internet is such a bad idea.

 

So BASC is supporting the British shooting industry overseas and encouraging people to come over and put money into the economy and finding estates a new source of income. There should be a public lynching oh sorry ones going on at the moment :blink:

 

My local estate has Belgians over most weekends at the moment shooting muntjack. They get very good specimen muntjack on this estate and they pay well for it. While they are here they stay in a local B&B eat in local rural restaurants and pubs and then they go home. I can see this is bringing nothing to the area and not helping to make the keepers job more secure as he is seen as earning money for the estate. I haven't investigated much but I would imagine its aimed more at the forms of game shooting that people pay for than vermin control though the pigeon guides may be a small part.

Look at how many people on here have made use of shooting overseas such as wild boar etc and why shouldn't the same happen over here. By increasing the size of the shooting industry it will make it more secure for all of us after all the antis will be dealing with a multi billion£ industry which will cut off a large injection of cash to rural areas if it were ever to be banned.

Edited March 10, 2008 by al4x

[tulkyuk]

:blink: - Well said Alex

[shaun4860]

Isnt there a noticably non responce from from Basc Dave?

[David BASC]

Please feel free to attack all the other organisations as well as BASC. Perhaps those of you that are against this project and BASC's involvement will also now write and e-mail all the others involved and ask for their comment. (but I bet you will not as it is not half as much fun having a go at BASC is it? Gives you a warm feeling does it? Makes you feel good to have a go when you are not in command of all the facts, well if it makes you happy carry on)

 

I am sorry if it has come as a surprise to some of you that so much money is generated in the UK from foreign visitors.

 

As so many have said- take a look at the big picture. Selling the family silver, a daft and deliberately inflammatory title. How does BASC sending one delegate in a party of 6 or more to an international event equate to selling off the family silver. It beggars belief.

 

Here is the full release:

 

Hundreds of European hunters have been finding out more about the country sports opportunities which are available in Scotland.

 

The Scottish Country Sports Tourism Group (SCSTG) made a big impact at Europe’s largest hunting and fishing fair in Dortmund, Germany last month. The SCSTG attended the six day show as part of their work aimed at promoting “Scotland – A Unique Country Sports Destination†to international audiences.

 

Alistair Rutherford, SCSTG project manager, said: “The stand was continually busy for six days, with hundreds of European hunters looking for information on Scotland. Visitors also got the opportunity to have a taste of Scotland thanks to Dewars Whisky and Walkers Shortbread.â€

 

The stand was staffed for the six days by SCSTG staff and members of SCSTG partner organisations including: Emma Campbell (VisitScotland), Doug McAdam (SPRBA), Ben Mardall and James Scott (BASC Scotland).

 

There will be opportunities for businesses offering country sports holidays in Scotland to participate in a number of ways in future years – please contact victoria.brooks@cstgscotland.com or telephone 01350 723226.

 

NOTES FOR EDITORS

 

The Scottish Country Sports Tourism Group is a public and industry partnership set up to develop the potential of Country Sports tourism within Scotland.

 

The group is made up of: VisitScotland, Scottish Enterprise, Highlands & Islands Enterprise, Association of Deer Management Groups, Association of Salmon Fishery Boards, British Association for Shooting and Conservation, Scottish Countryside Alliance Educational Trust, Scottish Estates Business Group, Scottish Gamekeepers Association and the Scottish Rural Property and Business Association.

 

The Scottish Country Sports Tourism industry is worth £200 million annually (5% of Scotland’s total tourism income) to the Scottish economy. It supports the equivalent of over 16,600 full time jobs spread across Scotland’s rural communities.

 

Photos and further information are available from Alistair Rutherford, SCSTG Project Manager, on 07917 658532.

[Sussexboy]

I have just read the news release on the BASC website. It does say that the Scottish Country Sports Tourism Group is in the driving seat for this one. Who are they??? Here is who they are

 

The group is made up of: VisitScotland, Scottish Enterprise, Highlands & Islands Enterprise, Association of Deer Management Groups, Association of Salmon Fishery Boards, British Association for Shooting and Conservation, Scottish Countryside Alliance Educational Trust, Scottish Estates Business Group, Scottish Gamekeepers Association and the Scottish Rural Property and Business Association.

 

Why has the BASC been singled out??? (Although I realise that they are the target of the year at the moment for whatever reason)

 

Who is selling who's family silver?

[Cranfield]

Isnt there a noticably non responce from from Basc Dave?

 

 

Just remember that David BASC has no obligation to come on here and explain anything to anybody.

We appreciate his contributions and suggest you treat him with a tad more respect.

 

These seems to be another extreme case of "jumping before you are bitten".