safe gun handling reminder

[casts_by_fly]

Hi All,

 

Just wanted to post my scare in hopes that someone else might learn from it.

 

I was out doing some pest control on hares last night with the HMR. About 2 months ago I did some trigger tune ups on the gun that lowered the pull weight and decreased the sear engagement (reduce creep). A the time I tried everything to get the gun to fire without pulling the trigger and it was fine. I've had it out 3 nights a week since then and not had a problem until last night. I had a hare at ~70 yd but didn't have a backstop. I had the gun aimed at my shooting zone where I did have a backstop so I was ready when the hare came out (I was laying prone in an open field). Everytime the hare started towards the shooting zone I flicked the safety off and got ready to shoot. Of course he would stop part way and turn around. After 10 or so of those he finally came out to the open and stopped. I put the cross hairs on him, flicked off the safety, and bang. Normally the proper order except that that time there was no trigger involved. The gun fired when I took the safety off. Since the gun was pointed in a safe direction and I didn't take off the safety until I was ready to shoot, there was no danger and in fact I hit the hare just a little lower than I was aiming (probably from reaching up to flip the safety). However it gave quite a scare.

 

I repeated the exercise after I collected him and found that it took anywhere from 10-25 cycles before the gun would fire just by taking the safety on and off. I also had 2 instances last night where I took a shot, cycled the bolt, and the firing pin hadn't stayed back. The problem is that there isn't enough sear engagement right now. I'm going to check the sear to make sure it hasn't worn or broken and then check the trigger group screws to make sure one hasn't loosened. If it is fine I'll put a thinner shim in place of the one I have in now and retest. Worst case is that I take out the shim and deal with the creep.

 

Long story short though, always point the gun in a safe direction and don't take the safety off before you're ready to shoot. Those two simple acts managed a potentially fatal situation down to a minimal hazard.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[alexm]

Good post!

 

It's at times like that when all the precautions us shooters take (that might seem like overkill to some) suddenly make sense!

[lurcherboy]

Rick, I had the same thing happen to me recently with a friends .243. I was checking with my spotter that all I had to do was push the safety forward and it went off. Fortunety it wasn't pointed at either of us and I don't mind admitting that it scared the **** of me. I am 100% sure that my finger was on the trigger guard as it's a precaution I have excercised since I started shooting.

 

 

 

 

LB

[Hunter]

Firstly, well done on not concealing your mishap, sounds like you are the kind of shooterI would feel confident out in the field with.

 

It sounds like you have your trigger at hair line level (you only have to breath out to hard and it goes off). Just re adjust it a little.

Out in the field you do not need a target trigger setup, a common mistake. Field shooting and target shooting are so very different. I use my standard fairly tough Tikka trigger setup in the field, its safe to use, but what important is the way you pull the trigger. Grip it gently, not pull it.. that affects accuracy, not how many pounds of draweight it is unless its seriously high like some cheap airguns.

 

Hope you get it sorted and get your confidence back into the gun.

[reedbradshaw]

i had a scare earlier this month, but with a shotgun. I was shooting clays and after pulling the trigger nothing happened! after opening the gun up i saw that the firing pin had indeed hit the primer cap but stil nothing happened. it was a good job i was in the company of people who had shot for years who shown me the correct proceedure of dealing with this.

 

at the end of the day, as you all may know. we are dealing with guns! weapons wha are designed to injure/kill people and for that they demand upmost respect

 

i recently took a friend shooting who said ( after being tought by my self the gun handling rules ) "its ok to touch the trigger, i know the safety latch is on" needless to say, i never took him shooting again

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

Rick - just out of interest what was the make of gun, so that others may be aware

 

Don

[bob300w]

Rick - just out of interest what was the make of gun, so that others may be aware

 

Don

 

 

I don't think that the make of the gun is relevant, the moral to the story is; If you play with trigger mechanisms, with no knowledge of what you are doing, somebody is going to get hurt or killed. Go figure.

[casts_by_fly]

Hi Hunter,

 

Yes, it was set pretty low at 12 oz. I prefer a light trigger, having shot heavy triggers for years. My 22 is the heavier rifle trigger that I have at 2.5 lb. My HMR is at 12 oz and my 223 is scary light (lower than I can accurately measure with a fishing scale) but around 4-8 oz. I'm very safe around guns and since I know my guns and how they are set I plan accordingly. The HR at 12 oz is heavy enough that I can rest my finger on it and I have to consciously squeeze. The 223 is light enough that I don't put my finger inside the trigger guard until I am ready to shoot. Considering that I only use the gun for varmint shooting in warm weather (at the moment) it is fine and I enjoy the accuracy.

 

The HMR was a trigger fix that I did myself. I know how to fix it and will do it this weekend. Basically I put a shim betwen the rear trigger group screw and the action to reduce the sear engagement. When I did it 2 months ago there was enough engagement that you couldn't make it fire in any way without pulling the trigger. I think something has worn or loosened.

 

The gun is a savage stainless synthetic sporter barrel. However it isn't the guns fault, just the nut that worked on it.

 

Thanks

Rick

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

Rick - just out of interest what was the make of gun, so that others may be aware

 

Don

 

 

I don't think that the make of the gun is relevant, the moral to the story is; If you play with trigger mechanisms, with no knowledge of what you are doing, somebody is going to get hurt or killed. Go figure.

 

Sorry to disagree Bob, but the make of the gun is relevant as some guns are more prone to this than others. It all depend on the design of the sear etc.

 

I had a Bruno semi auto rimmy that had a trigger with a pull of about 8 lbs or so that was non-adjustable. I asked a registered gunsmith to lighten the trigger by adjusting the sear. I took the gun out, pointed it at a safe backstop and Brrrrrp, 8 shots in less than a second. I reloaded the mag and the same thing happened.

 

Now I totally agree with you that if you do not know what you are doing then don't fiddle, but I have had literally lost count of the number of rifles that I have had over the years, and some have had the most appalling triggers that were easily adjustable down to safe, acceptable levels. Others were a nightmare and best left well alone.

 

If you have no knowledge then leave well alone as you have said......

 

Don

[bob300w]

Rick - just out of interest what was the make of gun, so that others may be aware

 

Don

 

 

I don't think that the make of the gun is relevant, the moral to the story is; If you play with trigger mechanisms, with no knowledge of what you are doing, somebody is going to get hurt or killed. Go figure.

 

Sorry to disagree Bob, but the make of the gun is relevant as some guns are more prone to this than others. It all depend on the design of the sear etc.

 

I had a Bruno semi auto rimmy that had a trigger with a pull of about 8 lbs or so that was non-adjustable. I asked a registered gunsmith to lighten the trigger by adjusting the sear. I took the gun out, pointed it at a safe backstop and Brrrrrp, 8 shots in less than a second. I reloaded the mag and the same thing happened.

 

Now I totally agree with you that if you do not know what you are doing then don't fiddle, but I have had literally lost count of the number of rifles that I have had over the years, and some have had the most appalling triggers that were easily adjustable down to safe, acceptable levels. Others were a nightmare and best left well alone.

 

If you have no knowledge then leave well alone as you have said......

 

Don

As I said, the make of the gun is irrelevant, my point was that any gun can be made unsafe, just as any semi-auto can be made full-auto, by messing with the trigger.

If any Rambos' out there think that it would be fun to convert his gun to full auto, it won't turn out as you may expect, as Don says, there will be one bang and the mag will be empty. It's impressive to watch how fast a 22 will cycle, but it won't be accurate firing auto, it WILL be illegal, and probably will be very expensive to return it to semi-auto.

[Boondougal]

i had a scare earlier this month, but with a shotgun. I was shooting clays and after pulling the trigger nothing happened! after opening the gun up i saw that the firing pin had indeed hit the primer cap but stil nothing happened. it was a good job i was in the company of people who had shot for years who shown me the correct proceedure of dealing with this.

 

 

I'm not a rifle man but i think its excellent you guys share these lessons learned, it can too often be a heavy price to pay to learn what you share.

 

Reed, Out of interest could you just outline to a newbie how you dealt with the cart...much appreciated.

[Harnser]

The biggest scare i ever had with a gun was my own stupid fault . I went out pigeon shooting ,got my hide up and decoys out sat down in the hide and took the shot gun out of the slip to load it .When i opened the gun there was two live cartridges in the barrels . I couldnt believe it ,the previous outing was a few days earlier and the gun had travelled back and forth to the farm in the car loaded .Also had stood in my cabinet loaded and been handled in my house in and out of the cabinet loaded . This was the scariests moment i have ever had in a long history of being involved in just about every kind of shooting sports .

Complacency must never be allowed to interfer with safe gun handling . I tell this storey to every body i shoot with and thought it worth telling here on the forum ,not just for the novices but also for the exprianced shooters as well . Harnser .

[bob300w]

I think that if we were honest, something like this has happened to all of us, and it's the best reason to treat every gun as though it was loaded.

[bobt]

The biggest scare i ever had with a gun was my own stupid fault . I went out pigeon shooting ,got my hide up and decoys out sat down in the hide and took the shot gun out of the slip to load it .When i opened the gun there was two live cartridges in the barrels . I couldnt believe it ,the previous outing was a few days earlier and the gun had travelled back and forth to the farm in the car loaded .Also had stood in my cabinet loaded and been handled in my house in and out of the cabinet loaded . This was the scariests moment i have ever had in a long history of being involved in just about every kind of shooting sports .

Complacency must never be allowed to interfer with safe gun handling . I tell this storey to every body i shoot with and thought it worth telling here on the forum ,not just for the novices but also for the exprianced shooters as well . Harnser .

 

 

if you had cleaned it you would have found it.

[Harnser]

The biggest scare i ever had with a gun was my own stupid fault . I went out pigeon shooting ,got my hide up and decoys out sat down in the hide and took the shot gun out of the slip to load it .When i opened the gun there was two live cartridges in the barrels . I couldnt believe it ,the previous outing was a few days earlier and the gun had travelled back and forth to the farm in the car loaded .Also had stood in my cabinet loaded and been handled in my house in and out of the cabinet loaded . This was the scariests moment i have ever had in a long history of being involved in just about every kind of shooting sports .

Complacency must never be allowed to interfer with safe gun handling . I tell this storey to every body i shoot with and thought it worth telling here on the forum ,not just for the novices but also for the exprianced shooters as well . Harnser .

 

 

if you had cleaned it you would have found it.

Bobt , I am from the dont believe in cleaning brigade . I genuinely believe that cleaning guns to often puts more wear on them then shooting does . I deep clean my guns once a year or if they get wet . Harnser .

[njc110381]

The biggest scare i ever had with a gun was my own stupid fault . I went out pigeon shooting ,got my hide up and decoys out sat down in the hide and took the shot gun out of the slip to load it .When i opened the gun there was two live cartridges in the barrels . I couldnt believe it ,the previous outing was a few days earlier and the gun had travelled back and forth to the farm in the car loaded .Also had stood in my cabinet loaded and been handled in my house in and out of the cabinet loaded . This was the scariests moment i have ever had in a long history of being involved in just about every kind of shooting sports .

Complacency must never be allowed to interfer with safe gun handling . I tell this storey to every body i shoot with and thought it worth telling here on the forum ,not just for the novices but also for the exprianced shooters as well . Harnser .

 

 

How did you manage that? I must be a little weird on gun safety but every time the gun moves it's checked, and I suggest you get into the same habit! On finishing shooting the gun would be unloaded. If closed again I always check it's empty before slipping it, and when it gets home I always break it and look down the barrels before it goes in the safe (and maybe clean it if it's got wet or shot a lot). Same routine for coming out, between cabinet and slip the gun is checked, and when removed from the slip at the shoot it's broken. It may seem a little OTT, but I've never got past the first stage of packing up and overlooked a loaded gun!

 

I'm not having a go. I just have no idea how you could have overlooked it with so many chances to pick up on your mistake?

[Muddy Funker]

i had a scare earlier this month, but with a shotgun. I was shooting clays and after pulling the trigger nothing happened! after opening the gun up i saw that the firing pin had indeed hit the primer cap but stil nothing happened. it was a good job i was in the company of people who had shot for years who shown me the correct proceedure of dealing with this.

 

 

I'm not a rifle man but i think its excellent you guys share these lessons learned, it can too often be a heavy price to pay to learn what you share.

 

Reed, Out of interest could you just outline to a newbie how you dealt with the cart...much appreciated. :yp:

 

I'm also interested at how to deal with a cart that doesn't go bang.

What is the safe procedure for removal/disposal, i think it's is really important everyone knows this.

Thanks

[al4x]

point the gun down range for 30 seconds before opening, in case its a slow burn then open it and keep the cartridge to one side. I usually try them in the other barrel just in case they will go after that they get cut up lead emptied and powder poured out

[tikkamark]

On the subject of this i was in the gun shop about two months ago getting a trigger installed in my hmr we got it set at 2lbs with plenty of metal still biting on the sear we slam fired it and dropped the rifle on the butt pad to check it was safe which it was-ie sear didn't slip but when we finished up the gunshop owner brought out a remington 700 .17rem it had developed a fairly nasty party trick every time the safety was slipped off it discharged the owner had left it in to be fixed the sear was not engaging with any metal whatsoever it had got stiff due to slight corrosion the first time the chap discovered this was whilst out lamping one night thank god the gun was pointed in a safe direction

The gun shop owner also had a side by side 12ga that discharged both barrels every time it was shut regardless of whether the safety was on or not it was bloody lethal if it was pointed in the wrong direction it would have killed someone

 

The lesson i learned from this was to ALWAYS have the gun pointing in a safe direction anytime a live round is in the chamber.

[casts_by_fly]

Hi guys,

 

Gun is fixed. The rear screw was loose and had backed out a full turn. I screwed it back in, tested everything and it was fine. The pull was back around 12 oz or so and nice and crisp. I pulled it back apart, put on a little dab of gun tite, and put it all back together. Shouldn't have any more problems.

 

Thanks

Rick

[Evilv]

Thirty years ago, maybe thirty-five, I borrowed a mates old twelve bore hammer gun. It developed a nasty habit of discharging both barrels occasionally when only the front trigger was pulled. When I tool the lock off to look at what was going wrong, I discovered that someone had put in a pathetically weak spring at sometime. It looked so fine, it might have come out of a kiddies cap gun and was far different to the one on the other side.The spring kept the sear engaged and the recoil of firing the other barrel could make it let go. It was a far better shooter of close bolting rabbits than my rather over choked Spanish side by side, so I was sorry to stop using it on the rough shoot we had. I expect the gun was made around the turn of the nineteenth century. Someone told me it had black powder proof marks on it, but now it is so long ago I can't remember what they looked like.

 

One time I was out shooting with a mate who negligently discharged his 12 bore right behind me and covered me in earth from a large hole about 18 inches behind my foot. I am very wary of him if we ever go shooting and keep a very sharp eye on him. To be honest, I never trusted him since. He could easily have taken my leg off.

Edited June 15, 2008 by Evilv

[Maiden22]

The biggest scare i ever had with a gun was my own stupid fault . I went out pigeon shooting ,got my hide up and decoys out sat down in the hide and took the shot gun out of the slip to load it .When i opened the gun there was two live cartridges in the barrels . I couldnt believe it ,the previous outing was a few days earlier and the gun had travelled back and forth to the farm in the car loaded .Also had stood in my cabinet loaded and been handled in my house in and out of the cabinet loaded . This was the scariests moment i have ever had in a long history of being involved in just about every kind of shooting sports .

Complacency must never be allowed to interfer with safe gun handling . I tell this storey to every body i shoot with and thought it worth telling here on the forum ,not just for the novices but also for the exprianced shooters as well . Harnser .

 

Thanks for that, very useful reminder, and very honest of you to post it.

 

I've heard a few stories like this, and that's the reason that I always open a gun the moment I pick it up, without fail. This applies even if I've only put it down for a moment, and even it's been in sight the entire time it's been out of my hands. In the end, it's my responsibilty to ensure that the gun is safe, and the only way I can be 100% sure is to look in the chambers.

 

I know it's over the top, but it's very easy to make a mistake and that routine means that I'll never be in the kind of situation that Harnser described.

 

Robert

[Ice]

I am a member of the cleaning brigade, gun gets a quick clean after every outing.

 

A very simple mistake to make that harnser, hopefully a lesson learned the easy way....

 

Simple gun safety, always treat a gun as if its loaded, never point at anybody you dont want to kill.......

[casts_by_fly]

robert,

 

It may be over the top, but it only takes half of a second to rack the action or open the gun up and check. Without checking that same half of a second could have disastrous consequences. I too check all of my chambers every time I pick up a gun of any type no matter where I am. In fact, it worries me when any salesman at a gun shop doesn't do it automatically.

 

thanks

rick

[deejay]

personally i dont think it matters what kind of weapon it is be it a pea shooter to crossbow and so on if its capeable of putting your eye out treat like it will .

i learnt my lesson 20 years ago when i had the barrel of my air rifle resting on my foot and the dog decided to jump on me gun went off and bounced off my ankel wow lucky once bitten twice shy