al4x Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I'm normally pro police but it seems Herts are acting somewhat unreasonably at the moment. On my mates farm at the weekend two guys were shooting legally well away from a road and about 250 yards from houses. One of the householders got the hump and went over and had a go at them, which I gather wasn't handled that diplomatically, claimed they were shooting his windows etc despite the distance and the fact he was in the middle of a terrace that ran at 90 degrees to the shooting so should have been impossible. So when he didn't get the desired result he obviously made a 999 call, this is when it gets good. The helicopter turned up first telling the one (as the other had left by that point) guy to come out with his hands up. They then proceeded to make him stand in the field while hovering for about 20 minutes till the armed response team turned up. They then ignored the law despite everything being legal with regard to distances from roads etc and forced the guy to pack up and wouldn't leave until he had. Complete jobsworths even turned up tooled up with the guy standing in the middle of a field. They read the riot act to him which is pretty strange considering he wasn't breaking the law. They then raced off to give another pigeon shooter the same treatment in Codicote just down the road. Now my issues with it are partly the cost of harrasing people undertaking a perfectly legal sport and the handling of it. A guy in a field with a load of decoys is obviously a pigeon shooter so why do you need the helicopter at how ever many thousand pounds an hour it costs to run, surely armed response would be enough. Or is it a nice little jolly for something to do on a saturday morning when all is quiet. Anyway watch out if your in North Herts or Bedfordshire as it seems like all reason has gone out of the window. P.s there is no truth in the rumour we might be shooting rabbits outside this house with moderators removed as our last port of call before going home :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Sounds like a good place to go lamping for a few nights on the trot - the later the better just to make him a tad more appreciative that you shoot pigeon during more sociable hours. Is there somewhere to park up just opposite his house so he can pass on your registration plate number to his mates in the plod? This of course might just antagonise him futher when plod checks your plate and it flags up as a properly licensed shooter - so they might threaten him with wasting police time if he calls it in again soon - just make sue you are far enough away from the road to cross all the "T" etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fo5ter Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I work in leicestershire not beds so I cant comment but i can tell you how it would work over here. 'firearms' incients are taken seriously - obviously it would depend where you were as to the response - in a field in the country would get a much softer approach than say a tesco car park An armed response vehicle would be called and they are Always tooled up! The helicopter sounds a bit much unless they just happened to be in the area anyway Im shocked that the 'victim' was taken so seriously to be honest! once the chopper or ARV saw what was going on! The chances are though that you would still be asked to move on to prevent a possible breach of the peace, with this crazy anti making allegations it will have been in your best interests. I would sincerely hope that the 'victim' was spoken to, though i doubt it Being a tw*t myself i would go round to the chaps house and invite him for a discussion! I have never had this problem before, i dont always ring the control room to tell them im out but i do ofter carry a little leather wallet with a badge in it The best ones are when people ring in to say there is a nutter/terrorist in a field outside thier house! when you ask them what they look like the answer is usually a middle aged man wearing a flat cap a tweed suit and a pair of wellies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Been there done that, helicopter, armed response, and the first copper to the scene a beat bobby (unarmed ) turning out to supposed "armed incident" unarmed??? Slightly different attitude taken though in my case, coppers quite friendly ( chopper had reported only pigeon shooters) two armed lads actually took a few pigeon back with them and the beat bobby was given a lift back to his car (daft sod had searched two hours and initially went to a wrong farm) told cost of chopper was £3,500 for each take off then add on an armed response unit, plus beat plods time, should imagine £5,000 easy in total, and why? dead simple some stupid stupid woman who was walking her dog and TRESSPASSING reported that she heard shots and her dog was frightened, Perhaps had she been made to cover the cost involved to respond to her stupidity, and the outcome been made aware in the press, tits like her would not be so ready to dial 999. incidentally when the local police control room was contacted and asked, why the chopper etc when its well known that farms in this area are shot over regularly, they stated that REGARDLESS of any circumstance IE previously reporting in etc, they still MUST attend a firearms report! cheers KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 exactly my thoughts when the complainant had already been and spoken to the shooter you'd have thought the police would be more interested in wasting their time. There was no hint of reason they just seemed intent on bullying the shooter and treating him like a criminal. I would also have thought a guy in a hedge shooting pigeons should get a more reasoned approach. What really irritated me was they were all off to deal with another shooter locally so presumably the same tactics were employed. When they know its a guy shooting pigeons before they go why on earth did they need the helicopter and ARV other than to intimidate law abiding citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) i always call it in with the police control centre when i shoot - avoids that kind of incident (and waste of taxpayers money) if some member of the public calls the police (which i've had before), i just get a nice phone call from the old bill confirming it's me (or not as has also happened) and that's the end of that Edited February 23, 2009 by nickbeardo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I'm normally pro police but it seems Herts are acting somewhat unreasonably at the moment. On my mates farm at the weekend two guys were shooting legally well away from a road and about 250 yards from houses. One of the householders got the hump and went over and had a go at them, which I gather wasn't handled that diplomatically, claimed they were shooting his windows etc despite the distance and the fact he was in the middle of a terrace that ran at 90 degrees to the shooting so should have been impossible. This is the problem, we only get one side of the story. I agree the helicopter was overkill, but we don't know what was said to the householder when he went to complain. Was he threatened, did he feel threatened, was he abused ? All of which entitle him to contact the police. The fact that one of the shooters left before the police arrived suggests that they may have gone a bit "over the top". Sure they may have had the right to be there and they were carrying out a lawful activity, but why get involved with the locals and possibly cause your Farmer local problems ? There must have been other fields, further from houses to set up on. Its my experience that when Farmers start getting grief, the shooting permissions cease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) Obviously nickbeardo you have not read kdubya's post no matter what you say even when the police know you are shooting if there is a complaint they still have to respond..that is from our own control room but they don't come as heavy handed and they have our mobile numbers so they can check it is still us doing the shooting.. PS you added to your post as i was typing my reply Edited February 23, 2009 by hawkeye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 This is the problem, we only get one side of the story.I agree the helicopter was overkill, but we don't know what was said to the householder when he went to complain. Was he threatened, did he feel threatened, was he abused ? All of which entitle him to contact the police. The fact that one of the shooters left before the police arrived suggests that they may have gone a bit "over the top". Sure they may have had the right to be there and they were carrying out a lawful activity, but why get involved with the locals and possibly cause your Farmer local problems ? There must have been other fields, further from houses to set up on. Its my experience that when Farmers start getting grief, the shooting permissions cease. It is a pretty safe permission and the farmer had been contemplating shooting that field as well, sadly you can't tell pigeons where to feed and its the field they are hitting hardest. The conversation was as diplomatic as possible when the householder was trying to force them to stop in an unreasonable fashion. The shooters departure was pre planned so wasn't related to it. They have newly moved to the village so hopefully they'll get used to living in the country but i'd not bet on it. The householder could have just nipped over the road and had the conversation with the farmer but this was obviously deemed to be more effective, almost in a if you won't stop I'll make you another way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Lovely to know that when I start game shooting in the future this is what I can expect. Then I might not really bother, stick to target shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Stalker Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I've had the same happen to me police chopper, armed response, "step out of the hide with hands in the air" but I've got to say they dealt with the situation very well even apologizing for interupting my day. I do now call in whenever I go shooting It dose sound like they've gone in a bit heavy handed SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Lovely to know that when I start game shooting in the future this is what I can expect. Then I might not really bother, stick to target shooting. Don't be neurotic. I've had two run-ins that led to the police being summoned, in over 20 years of shooting in the field. In both circumstances, the complainant was at fault, and told in no uncertain terms by the police to get off private property and stop wasting time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazkb Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 when ever i get a permission i take a copy of that permission to my local police so they have a record Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonboy1 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 it's happened to me a couple of times, the best one was when a police car turned up at the entrance to a field i was pigeon shooting on, two coppers got out and stood there for 10 mins desperately trying to locate someone shooting, then going back to the car and returning with a loud hailer "would the person with the gun please show yourself!" came the echo across the field (at least i knew my hide was good). I stood up and waved my arms and was told to walk towards them. Not wanting to leave my gun unattended i emptied it, slieved it, put it over my shoulder and walked the 350 yards over to them. As i got closer i noticed one smiling copper who recognised me and one that looked about 12 "stay where you are, put your hands in the air and put the gun on the floor!"shouted the 12 year old(still using the loud hailer) "it would be easier if i put the gun on the floor first then put my hands in the air" i replied sarcastically and before my gob got me into any more trouble the older copper told the 12 year old to calm down and that all was ok. Apparantly the idiot in a house a good 400 yards from where i was shooting claimed that shot was filling his pool and one had injured his thumb! Realising this guy was just an anti and how far away my hide was, the older copper assured me he was going to tear a strip off him for wasting police time and apologised to me for the misunderstanding. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall in that house! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Whilst it is right and proper for the police to attend using any means at their disposal, once the "threat" has been established and it has become obvious that it is merely a sportsman going about his lawful business the police officers involved should treat the sportsman courteously and apologise for interrupting his day. Good manners cost nothing and go a long way to improving shooter/police relationships. Treatment such as this does the police no good and had it been me I would be on to the Chief Constable very swiftly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badshot Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Must be lucky in Kent they are doing the pigeon shooting for me, from PC to DCI. Makes me feel the house is safe when i go out and theres half a dozen armed policemen just out the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Been there done that and asked them to go and tell the farmer it was them thats just walked through the middle of his wheat field . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Lovely to know that when I start game shooting in the future this is what I can expect. Then I might not really bother, stick to target shooting. Don't be silly. If you're not doing anything wrong then why be put off trying something you might enjoy. People will bitch & moan over lots of things, shooting included. Even in the middle of nowhere where I live. If it happens, stay calm, let them run out of steam talking, be reasonable. As long as you're within the law they can only huff & puff but they're not gonna blow your hide down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Don't be silly. If you're not doing anything wrong then why be put off trying something you might enjoy. People will bitch & moan over lots of things, shooting included. Even in the middle of nowhere where I live. If it happens, stay calm, let them run out of steam talking, be reasonable. As long as you're within the law they can only huff & puff but they're not gonna blow your hide down. Thanks John give me a chuckle did that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Thanks John give me a chuckle did that What can I say Rob I was an avid reader as a toddler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlock Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 If you are obeying all the laws that are put in place to govern us as shooters and as general public bods then a policeman has no grounds to disrupt any person going about his own lawful business, there is no endangerment to the public & no distruction of property, The only offence that could be dealt with is that of nusiance noise, this would be dealt with by the local authority environment department who would say that the shooting activity would equate to a farmer using a banger rope or gas gun. Any policeman that wanted to really push the point would be informed that the matter would be raised with the IPCC, i have had the same situation, the only grounds 2 armed police could find is that some local villagers were bird lovers and that shooting pests was upsetting them even though they lived over a mile away over a hill, after a couple of phone calls the rural support officer for that area turned up and had a chat with his colleagues expressing to them that it was futile pressing the matter, both members of the armed respone unit walked over, appologised and went on their way. Maybe in some ways it`s not what you know it`s who you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Hampshire police must be a bit tight then, I just got a PC and a PCSO turn up to some woodland I was (legitimatly) shooting, after a local phoned the plod because ''she heard shooting near her house''. They just asked for some I.D, I showed them my permission and a copy of my shotgun cert and that was that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogfox Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) they need to start charging more people with wasteing police time, thats rediculous stuff in fact you could probably go out with some beast like a .338 or .408 without a mod, and do some very late night lamping! Edited February 23, 2009 by dogfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 From reading this thread it must be very different shooting in england than up here in scotland, we never have to notify police of where we are going to shoot. If i was to do that i would never be off the phone! I think the law is also different for the "how far from a public road" you are as up here we could literally stand on the wall of the permission and shoot into it. Gixer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogfox Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 in ireland, as long as your around 90/100 yds from main road, and far from unknown dwellings your perfectly fine. generally you have no fear of farmers not wanting you shooting, as they are all happy to have you on their land, so if your not too noisy you can usually go onto any permission, as all the farmers know whos on the land and what theyr doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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