kdubya Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Fullbore It is usually members of the public who report people shooting to the Police ! They then have to deal with it in a manner that is safe and appropriate, until they can obtain the full facts ie. shooters with permission Col like the chap who lived near me (I moved not him) who was pinned to the floor and stood on at the neck,the whole road sealed off and coppers waving guns about all over the place, er for the "crime" of chasing his son into the street during the kids birthday party and "shooting" him with a hoover pipe?a simple what is going on would have sorted it, terrorists seem not to use shiny hoover pipes and chase laughing kids about whilst plotting or laying an IED? seems there IS no common sense anymore just an instant over reaction to everything, oh and having been penned like a prize tup for no other reason than trying to get back to my car following a footie match, and also witnessing first hand the tactics of the police during the miners strike ( the point in time when the coppers role really changed) coppers are now to me no longer protectors of the public they are controllers and harassers, and I take no pleasure at all in saying that. and in the worst cases liars, cheats, and murderers ask a member of the menendez family cheers KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnamaniac Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Hi Have read with great interest the posts on this emotive subject, and I hope i'm not putting petrol on the fire when I add my views. I'm not defendidng either side, I believe in free speech and also in the police. Looking at the video, I see only three possible explanations. 1. He was a protestor and got caught up and seperated. Then being moved on was a valid procedure even the use of force in that situation would have been reasonable. 2. The police over reacted, wel I have seen over reaction before and a baton blow to the legs and a push, to a civilian would look extreme but under the guidelines was reasonable force. 3. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. This to me seems the most lightly. He appears to be drunk, and he was moving at a snails pace and it appears he gave the offficers a bit of lip too. Did the police warrent their reaction to the situation ? Well again you have to ask yourself whats it like to be in that situation and also why was he there. Police use reasonable force, so a blow with a baton to a limb is a valid response. The push, again the orders were to clear the area and he was holding the line so again valid. He fell quickly so either he was under the influence of alcohol or starting the cardiac episode well the alcohol excuse doesn't wash, and if he was in the start of a cardiac episode the how was the officer to know ! Its hard enough in a controll situation let alone the field. Its easy to point fingers and blame, but I feel that no one was to blame. He should not have been in that area, and the police we engaged with rioters at the time and in that situation its impossible to see the innocent people who were caught up, and the rioters, remember the police had asked the day before that people not visit London. People seem to forget that the police reacted when he went into a cardiac arrest and were pelted with missiles while they tried to render aid. I have served 3 years with the police and 15 years as a prison officer and I understand the pressures that you'd experiance in a tense situation of a riot, and unless you have been there you'd never understand. Thye heavy handed police response would not be requires if it was a peaceful demonstartion. Woody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12borebanger Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 he was repeatedly asked to move on an was clearly purposly dawdling, and we still dont know how long this had been happening, so he got pushed, not enough to cause death. could of been a heart attack caused simply by the increased stress caused from a confrontation, a situation he knew he was putting himself into. and even if his death was directly linked to the shove, does anyone really think the officers intention was to kill him, there is alot of talk like the officer pulled gun a shot him in the back!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest topshot_2k Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Its assault which lead to his death, no matter how its dressed up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col1888 Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 All these comments like "I'm not interested in what happened before", or "the violence the police faced before means jack ****". All that happened before sets the style of policing that follows ! I have no doubt that the commanders that day would have ordered a more robust style of policing, to avoid the damage and chaos of before. As someone has pointed out , the two actions of that policeman are both recognised techniques, so he has done nothing wrong. This sort of thing would have happened thousands of times in those two/three days, unfortunately because this man died it has been highlighted. But he died of a heart attack, not an assault ! Also as someone said "the rest of the protestors were keeping well back from the police line" so what was this innocent man doing , i ask you ? Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnamaniac Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Its assault which lead to his death, no matter how its dressed up Its not assault if your doing your lawful duty. That officer used reasoble force, pushing him away from the moving line of policemen. Woody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Its not assault if your doing your lawful duty. That officer used reasoble force, pushing him away from the moving line of policemen. Woody I don't consider that which I watched as reasonable? he was deliberately pushed to the ground. and if the police think that IS reasonable I would suggest they have strayed over the line of not knowing what is right and what is WRONG the guy was assaulted regardless if he was ****** daft or dumb whatever and he died as a result of that assault? however no doubt he will be accused of wearing winter clothing running and vaulting whilst disregarding a pleasant request to "move on" and it will be his own fault he was assaulted. all i can say is thank god for phone camera's etc as it will now make these legalised thugs thing twice before assaulting members of the public again KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnamaniac Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I don't consider that which I watched as reasonable? he was deliberately pushed to the ground. and if the police think that IS reasonable I would suggest they have strayed over the line of not knowing what is right and what is WRONG the guy was assaulted regardless if he was ****** daft or dumb whatever and he died as a result of that assault? however no doubt he will be accused of wearing winter clothing running and vaulting whilst disregarding a pleasant request to "move on" and it will be his own fault he was assaulted. all i can say is thank god for phone camera's etc as it will now make these legalised thugs thing twice before assaulting members of the public again KW Its not what either of us think is reasonable, it's that statute books that define reasonable force is ! Its easy to be critical of those officers at that time, but they were in the toughet area to work, and under constant attack and looking at the line they were under manned as well. You don't have the time to be civil, you give the order, then repeat, if they do not comply you move them on using reasonable force, pure and simple. Be thankful you live within the UK, we have the much better defined terms of reasonable force then our European cousins. Woody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col1888 Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Sonic Well said ! Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Sonic sunshine, I HAVE witnessed a bit, its called living through life and at 57 and at the time working in the power industry I saw the police invent the term "control" I didn't see it from a newspaper or from what I heard, I SAW IT IN REALITY I WAS ALSO penned IN MANCHESTER for absolutely nothing other trying to get to my car yes I had been to a football match but I am not a hooligan I did not have colours on I was simply seen as most supporters are as something sub human by the poor representation of police that we have today, as to my statement re menendez he WAS murdered you know it I know it the police LIED under oath (proven and admitted) they created a story to cover the ineptness of their action (ADMITTED) oh and dont say the officer had to make a quick decision as that is bullshine they let him walk for 20 mins to a bus stop then get on a bus then walk to the tube and board it, if they thought he was a threat why let him do that? it was a cock up and a man was murdered by a copper as a result, FACT oh and as for delivering the duvet [please pm me and I will arrange to collect it personally) cheers KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Sonic Well said ! Col at least we now know the stance taken on legalised thuggery by the coppers amongst us? ie try to ridicule or deny any point of view factual or not and blame it on anyone but the police, if only the police where as quick to turn up to a burglary as they are to self protection they would not be to bad? cheers KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Keith a chap on here keeps telling me "you cant educate pork". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Keith a chap on here keeps telling me "you cant educate pork". Yes but one can always try mind you it must be hard for them as even the top lads are bumblers look at blair and now that twit with the "shhh top secret papers on full display, safe hands we are in eh!! KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 mate i hav,nt got that MUCH time for the system . 1.but he was in a HOT situation.and he knew it ,just like the kids that get in knock off cars that crash and they die they played the GAME AND LOST . the police are not holy than thou they car,nt be its the nature of the job they hav ,nt got the time too judge each person when theres hundreds performing ,yes its wrong but thats life. 1: he didnt know it. He had remidial learning difficulties, and was walking home after finding his usual route blocked by dumb *** protesters. As this was not his normal path home, his head was not in the right place. he was repeatedly asked to move on an was clearly purposly dawdling, and we still dont know how long this had been happening, so he got pushed, not enough to cause death. could of been a heart attack caused simply by the increased stress caused from a confrontation, a situation he knew he was putting himself into. and even if his death was directly linked to the shove, does anyone really think the officers intention was to kill him, there is alot of talk like the officer pulled gun a shot him in the back!! (see 1:) he was not dawdling. 2. Its not assault if your doing your lawful duty. That officer used reasoble force, pushing him away from the moving line of policemen. Woody 2:check your law mate, its still assault. The outcome to be decided by the IPCC. They should have been more switched on and regardless of what they thought might happen, did not act in the correct manner. Did i not read in the paper today the this copper has himself had a cardiac? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Yes i have seen the footage he was pushed i can see that but he fell over, he wasnt tripped or bundled to the floor... He wasn't just pushed mate, he was slammed across the legs from behind with a batton n then pushed to the ground! PATHETIC!! Id have half a mind to charge in and defend the man, but no doubt be arrested n charged with assault. The police can just get away with it because they are enforcing the laws! Who decides how this country is run any more ? Not us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I think you know when the opposition argument has become morally bankrupt when they have to resort to calling police officers "pigs". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat 1 Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I thought this type of thing only happened in America and other third world countries where the common citizen has no rights. http://www.linkognito.com/b.php?b=727 Maybe not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXFMIbkKMMc The idea of sending the thugs who are in the police to where Mark was might not be a bad idea.I am not saying they are all thugs but there is obviously some with a small man complex who get the descent coppers a very bad name.The sooner the good ones stop backing the bad ones the better it will be for everyone. Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 A surprisingly large number of police officers are actually ex servicemen. Of the ten officers on the last shift I worked on, two were ex RN, one was ex RM, one a para and one ex RA. My daughter in law,a serving officer, is ex RAF. As one of them put it to me, "When the wheel comes off, the only difference is the velocity of the projectiles coming in your direction." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col1888 Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 KW Oh dear ! Ever think the police don't get to burglaries quick, because crime is on the up and we are under resourced, as well as all the other functions we perform for society ? No, its easy to sit in your comfy armchair and pontificate about the job we do. Anytime you want to join me at a football match and police some of these hooligans just give me a shout. Perhaps we could try out your methods eh ? " Come along boys, lets move along, stop playing rough now ". As for " We can't educate pork " If thats where your point of view has taken you, i think you are on to a loser ! I have simply tried to explain things from my perspective as a police oficer/copper/pig, it matters not what you call me, i can accept other people see things differently, thats life ! Sleep safe tonight eh, whilst the boys and girls of YOUR local force once again possibly risk THEIR lives to keep YOU safe !! Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 :lol: Classy site.................nutters everyone of them. BARKING !! Damn, I was all ready to gently suggest kos was full of it aswell... Lucky there are folks like him out there to keep us safe from our pesky intellegence services by exposing their wacky and unlikely schemes. Shame he wasnt there to save Princess Di and Jill Dando from a MI5 bullet..... Give me ******* strength ZB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 A lot of the replies from serving police have just backed up what i said pages ago.Police can do no wrong,no matter what and some should wear the T-shirt.............INSTANT ATTITUDE JUST ADD UNIFORM They started off with reasoned discussion then ended up with,Look we demand your respect and we can do whatever the hell we like cos we are the police.Funny because that's the criminal way of earning respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markb Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) When you live in a remote rual area you do feel as if your on your own, emergancy services are at least 30 minutes away, some times longer, as they have no local knowledge, Last year a mate came off his horse, we thought he'd damaged his back, it took the ambulance 45 minutes to get to us as they had got lost. the police had to pay us a visit about an accident my wife had seen, they also had to ask for directions??? Edited April 13, 2009 by markb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbithunter2008 Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 KW Oh dear ! Ever think the police don't get to burglaries quick, because crime is on the up and we are under resourced, as well as all the other functions we perform for society ? No, its easy to sit in your comfy armchair and pontificate about the job we do. Anytime you want to join me at a football match and police some of these hooligans just give me a shout. Perhaps we could try out your methods eh ? " Come along boys, lets move along, stop playing rough now ". As for " We can't educate pork " If thats where your point of view has taken you, i think you are on to a loser ! I have simply tried to explain things from my perspective as a police oficer/copper/pig, it matters not what you call me, i can accept other people see things differently, thats life ! Sleep safe tonight eh, whilst the boys and girls of YOUR local force once again possibly risk THEIR lives to keep YOU safe !! Col The police do a great job, As you have said they put them selves in danger ever day. 1 bad apple on that day made people go mad about police as a group. It's just like 1 Muppet doing some thing stupid with air gun or shotgun! And most of them post it on here then say what i have done wrong!! It makes us all look bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter59 Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 so what was this innocent man doing , i ask you ? Trying to get home after a day at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 simple then.....go home...don't hang around in front of a load of riot cops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.