Lost my permission.

[Baldrick]

May I, as a farmer, just highlight that farming is a very close-knit community, in which news travels rapidly? Any farmer who is told to 'shove it' by a guest on his own land, will tell any other farmer who will listen. You may find your existing permissions evaporate quickly, and other avenues firmly blocked off.

 

You do not need to grovel, but a sincere and well-timed apology will probably do you credit in the farmer's eyes. Don't take him a bottle of whisky. You're much better to offer him a pint if you see him in the local.

 

Edit: I see Cosd has beaten me to it with the comment about farmers talking, sorry.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Baldrick

[Alanl50]

I'M gutted for you as well mate, it must be horrible

 

Id ring the Farmer and arrange a meet / chat, explain to him how serious you are and offer your profound apologies for the missunderstanding ref the extra shooter in the hide.

 

Don't let the grass grow under your feet though just get on out there and find another farm, this time of year most farms will let you go for the pigeons.

 

Regards Alan

 

Further to my earlier reply above I have to add that the 2 farms I shoot on, Im not allowed to take guests without there express permission and to me that seems fair, after all it is there back garden, reverse the situation and your the farmer!!! Its a massive trust situation and you have broken it.

Im very lucky with my farms / permissions, I come and go as I please and Ive been allowed to cut holes in hedge rows for access for my quad bike, but I do believe in treating them like fragile glass, TOTAL RESPECT.

On the sunday just gone I helped with the potatoe harvest on one farm, Its a pleasure to help, a small payment back to the farm for the 365 days potentially I can shoot.

Dont give up mate, Contact the farmer and make your apologies and you never know your luck and as previously stated Farmers are a tight knit community they talk to each other, dont leave it on a sour note whatever the outcome.

Good Luck

Regards Alan

Edited August 19, 2009 by Alanl50

[Zapp]

May I, as a farmer, just highlight that farming is a very close-knit community, in which news travels rapidly? Any farmer who is told to 'shove it' by a guest on his own land, will tell any other farmer who will listen. You may find your existing permissions evaporate quickly, and other avenues firmly blocked off.

 

Sage words here. Farmers are either your firmest friends, or the most resolute of enemies, depending on how you come across to them.

 

I have had permission to shoot on one farm for 17 years, and all my other shooting has come as a result of a personal nod from that farmer. Needless to say, he gets a crate of his favourite tipple every christmas.

 

Give it a few days, maybe a couple of weeks even, and then take a deep breath and approach him again.

 

ZB

[Imperfection]

what kind of farmer likes crows??

 

I know one farmer who delibretly swerves his truck just to drive over them!

 

Anyway,like others have said leave it for a week or so then pop round there with his favourite drink.If he chucks it back in your face atleast then you know excally where you stand.

[unclemicky]

Well said George

[Glenshooter]

Fair enough its his land and you didn't ask to take someone else but he has no right to speak down to you like it sounds, your only human, everyone make mistakes.

 

I'm sorry to disagree but when it comes to shooting, I have zero tolerance for mistakes. OK, this wasn't necessarily a safety issue but could be in the farmer's eyes. I have to pay for liability insurance to make sure that if some unwelcome guest, for what ever reason, has an 'incident' on my land, I am legally covered. To spell it out, if you took someone to shoot with you on HIS land and your 'guest' has an accident, the farmer could be sued. I would be very unhappy if anyone did this on my land.

 

Especially as I have to pay for the necessity of insuring myself.

 

And to be honest, shooters frequently overestimate the value of the service they provide to farmers. It is rare that pests get to levels that cause major problems and when they do, there are normally more effective ways to deal with them than shooting.

[Ozzy Fudd]

id go and apologise in person, but i wouldnt look for the shooting back - sounds like too much hassle to me.

 

its maybe just different attitudes over here (or pure luck) but none of my landowners are like that. i can come and go as i please without having to let them know (though one place i always stop at the farm house to say im there, due to a run in with one of their neighbours a while back) and ive never had any trouble with taking anyone else with me

[joeshaw08]

Some very mixed replies in here. The comments I said earlier were 10-15 minutes after I had recieved the texts and obviously I was very peed off. I wasn't thinking straight and didn't take everything into account such as the insurance etc, so I'll take a few days to cool off and then i'll approach him with an apology. Hope I like humble pie...!

[JohnGalway]

.

Edited September 20, 2009 by JohnGalway

[Paul223]

Agree with John G and babby, apologize but don't beg for the permission back, if he offers it (he will) either take it or use the moment to make a few well though out comments about how he makes shooting unworkable, look for his reaction and then may be take it, he may just give you a little more room

[Westcountryman]

He sounds like an awkward chap.

 

If you want to shoot there, put in a little work. Bottle of something and go back cap in hand. In the back of your mind, you can think he is an ****, but bite your lip and you will get what you want. He will feel all powerful and you can get back to blasting pigeons out of the sky.

 

If you don't do something to rectify the situation, he may go and tell his farming pals that you are not trust worthy and you can loose more potential shoots. Just a thought B)

[kentishsteve]

i wouldn't do anything i would leave it as that and think poke it then you miserable ******* and find some more permission somewhere else but then i'm stubborn and proud everybody is different and everybody has there own oppinion do whats rite for you if the permission means that much to you and you are ok with grovelling then do it but if not don't the choice is yours but which ever way i wouldn't text

[codling99]

very awkward situation,on one side of coin it depends on how much land you have to shoot on,if you have loads,does it matter loosing one? personally i have over 20 farms to shoot on day and night,but depending which one kicked me off,i could afford to just say ok im sorry and loose the farm,but then i have some farms that are all in same area and join each other in one way or another,and 2 of them are relatives and/or rent land to each other for grazing,so upsetting one of them might lead to loosing 12 farms in one go.

basically,dont tell him to stuff it just explain your self and apologise in a few days and see what happens.i had a small disagreement with one farmer in said village a few years back over a silly misunderstanding,which a pop up there to speak to him face to face instead of phone call,and a bottle of whisky sorted it all out. B)

[Dirty Harry]

If you dont enjoy it and dont want the hassle then forget it.

I would let the bloke know that you have enjoyed shooting on his land but because of the hassle involved you have decided not to bother anymore. Be polite and maybe when he wants it shot again he will be back in touch.

I would definatley not buy him a bottle. Why buy someone a drink if they talk to you like ****?

I shoot on a few farms and luckily dont have to pay for any and all of the farmers appreciate what I do.

I have recieved gifts from some of the farmers! Cash for ammo, jam, marmalade and some fresh produce.

have had a run in with one however who was more than a little rude to me. I have not shot there since and think the bloke is a cock but I have the land used for training my dog.

 

Harry

[Justintime]

The strange mind of the Farmer I would not have anything to do with him ,Just walk away as complications could arise,

As run ins can and do end up in REVOKES

[mossy835]

what a funny old ***,i would not want two shoot on his land, bettet off with it gone, on my farms i can take any one i like out.and thats on all 18 of them.one minit your ok and the next your not,best gone

[njc110381]

I'd go and see him and explain your reasons for not texting him. You've said he was busy combining, so just tell him that as he already knew you were there you didn't want to disturb him any more because you knew he was busy.

 

I've had harsh words with land owners before. It doesn't pay to upset them. My first ever permission was from quite a strict guy and I don't go there often now as I feel I'm more appreciated elsewhere. I still get on ok with him though, I'll even help him out if he needs a hand.

 

Everyone is different. My regular permission I always ring but can take guests if I want to. They just like to know when I'm there. I hardly ever speak to one of my other land owners. I just come and go as I please, with or without guests. Usually I only talk to him if there's a problem I can't deal with like a broken fence that needs a new post or maybe an injured animal. If it's a simple fix I just fix it myself. I do remember once he came out to fix some barbed wire next to where I'd set up my hide and it had been re-strained and stapled when he got there.... That got me some serious brownie points!

[joeshaw08]

I gave the farmer a ring earlier today ACCIDENTALLY! I was meant to be dialling someone else with the same name and dialled his mobile number instead, so after a very awkward first few seconds I just apologised about what happened. He said "You know I don't take no **** and you were out of line". So anyway I ignored that comment, and as I didn't want to get into an argument I just said that I wasn't asking for the shooting back I just didn't want to leave it on bad terms. He said apoligy accepted and that was that! At least now he won't be badmouthing me to his farmer friends...hopefully.

 

Cheers.

[Tommo]

I've been shooting for a certain permission for around 8 months and it's been ideal as it's right next to my house. It took me a while to get on there as the farmer is very difficult to get along with, but I finally got the yes which I was over the moon with. Since then it hasn't been a brilliant relationship between me and him. The first time was when I was out decoying over some clover and the pigeons werent coming in, but there were alot of rooks around in the trees. So I politely text him to see if I could have a go at those, he text back saying "No, not while they're nesting".

Fair enough, so I left it. About 5 minutes later I saw him coming over in his wagon. He got out and said "You are taking this for granted, I let you on here to shoot the pigeons and now you want a go at the crows." Sorry for asking.

 

After a chat and once it had settled down I left and carried on shooting a field close to mine, STRICTLY PIGEONS! I would text him each time if I could go, sometimes he'd say yes, sometimes no but I always let him know. I'd also let him know if there was somebody joining me, he'd always reply saying "Ok" or "Ok, just in the same hide though". Plenty of times I'd tell him this and get the same reply. So I went out yesterday pigeon shooting over stubble on my own, and then my Dad was coming along for an hour or so. I didn't text him this time to say he was joining me, as I ASSUMED it would be ok as it has been in the past, plus I didn't want to bother him while he was combining. We shared the same hide in the same place and shot for an hour or so and he was under my supervision (he has a shotgun and a certificate of his own aswell).

 

Anyway, I had a text this morning from the farmer saying "Was somebody shooting with you yesterday?" to which I replied "Yes, we were sharing a hide. Sorry I didn't let you know I didn't realise he was coming until the last minute". He then replied "You just take it for granted all the time well thats it no more shooting."

 

Well that's it then, shooting has been lost because I 'assumed it would be ok'. I am absolutley livid and kicking myself about it.

 

So there's a lesson learnt the hard way, make sure you let your farmer know, even if he has approved time and time again and don't assume it'll be ok. Although I am in the wrong, I do feel rather hard done by here. :yp: Gutted.

 

 

Joe,

 

In my opinion the farmer is a poo eating swamp donkey. Your better off away from it. Any farmer who lets crows 'nest' and is so hard to work with is not worth the bother. I'm surprised he wasn't charging you to shoot pigeons.

 

Go knock some other doors mate and see what people say. In a roundabout way you may find that others think that he's a ***, and or even they might tell you where you are going wrong i.e. Texting him - i've never text a farmer.

 

Dont take it to heart nor get upset over it, you've just come across one of those idiots.

 

Tom

[mossy835]

again best with out the idiot.

[starlight32]

I'm sorry to disagree but when it comes to shooting, I have zero tolerance for mistakes. OK, this wasn't necessarily a safety issue but could be in the farmer's eyes. I have to pay for liability insurance to make sure that if some unwelcome guest, for what ever reason, has an 'incident' on my land, I am legally covered. To spell it out, if you took someone to shoot with you on HIS land and your 'guest' has an accident, the farmer could be sued. I would be very unhappy if anyone did this on my land.

 

Especially as I have to pay for the necessity of insuring myself.

 

And to be honest, shooters frequently overestimate the value of the service they provide to farmers. It is rare that pests get to levels that cause major problems and when they do, there are normally more effective ways to deal with them than shooting.

 

 

Why, have you lot found a new device which scares rabbits away?

 

I will run along with part of what you say in the first line regarding shooters overestimating their services, but that is not totally the case.Most farmers count every pound whether thay have plenty or not and very few spend their time on vermin control or prevention such as rabbit fences. What I will say is for the small minority of us on here who are out a few nights a week and shooting several hundred rifle bullets a year then I am afraid we will fail to agree to disagree..........

 

My opinion-The farmer is a little highly strung,mosty likely a tenant farmer.....I can't speak for other areas of the country or your postion on wanting the shooting as I now it can be hard to come by but personally I would keep away.

 

Think about this one then, If he is a little highly strung how is he going to react if there was an incident involving the police-He sounds just the type to say 'Don't know him, I never gave him permission' even if he has given it to you in writing.

 

Then you are in the hassle tree without a ladder.

 

If he sounds like he his most likely other decent farmers will avoid him too!

Edited August 29, 2009 by starlight32

[cubix]

The comments and generalisations that some posters here are make about farmers and landowners are absolutely shocking.

 

It is no wonder that shooting is hard to come by when so many shooters talk about the people who let them shoot on their land with such contempt.

 

I regularly read farming forums, and plenty of farmers will read forums like this, and see how too many shooters actually view them.

[Glenshooter]

The comments and generalisations that some posters here are make about farmers and landowners are absolutely shocking.

 

It is no wonder that shooting is hard to come by when so many shooters talk about the people who let them shoot on their land with such contempt.

 

I regularly read farming forums, and plenty of farmers will read forums like this, and see how too many shooters actually view them.

The most sensible thing I've read on this thread.

 

I had 2 people this week wanting to shoot and I detected an attitude similar to some people on here. They aren't shooting on my land, and as I am active in the farming associations, there are plenty of farms they won't be shooting on.

 

OTOH, a decent young chap who offers to help out, particularly in the lambing season, is reliable and demonstrates an understanding of the issues that I have to deal with, is shooting quite happily on thousands of acres. I was out with him lamping last night and we got 2 foxes.

 

Farmers are legally responsible for what happens on their land and they can do without hassle or 'attitude' from people who use farmer's land for their own enjoyment. If I have the slightest doubt about people out with guns among my livestock they lose permission instantly. And that usually means neighbouring farms as well and vice versa.

All IMHO of course.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Glenshooter

[ShaggyRS6]

I can't understand the comments that criticise the Farmer, he sounds like a lot of the ones that I have known over the years.

 

Its their land and they are entitiled to be as "possessive" about is as they want.

The deal was that the shooter had to text before shooting and ask if he could take someone with him, he didn't and the Farmer found out and took away the shooting.

Bad luck, but the Farmer has done nothing wrong.

 

On almost all of my permissions I am not permitted to take anyone with me, whether I ask or not.

 

jowshaw08, I would suggest that give it a week (not much longer), then go and see him face to face and apologise , also thank him for the past facility.

Taking a bottle with you is optional, I wouldn't in the circumstances.

If he doesn't throw his arms around you and welcome you back immediately, ask if its OK if you ask him again some time in the future for your permission to be reinstated.

Its important that your relationship doesn't end on a sour note.

 

IMO I think Cranny has the best advice.

 

Firstly it's the farmers land so his rules must be respected.

 

Like cranny i cannot take anyone on the land I shoot. There are rare exceptions but I still have to ask permission to take people ferreting. Just lately I have a freind who has been training his Golden Eagle. Again I ask permission and text him every time we go out, just as I do with my rifle.

 

Of late everyone is in a bad mood what with the recession. He may have been having a bad day. Not really an excuse to take it out on you, but, that;s just what might have happened.

 

I would take Cranny's advice and go and have a word with him. Have a bottle ready in the car if the chat looks like it's going the right way and as a gesture of good will present it to him if all goes well. If not, just apologies again and leave.

 

Whatever happens, I hope you get it sorted out.

 

Just remember though, and this goes for everyone. In most cases it's NOT your land. They make the rules, we adhere to them, giving them one less thing to worry about (when it comes to what we do on their land) can only keep relationships running smoothly. I keep my farmer updated with every move I make. My farmer lets me pick up drops in fruit season, I still religiously txt him to make sure it's all right before i go taking damaged fruit. For the sake of a text it just keeps everything running smooth. I never take the permissions or the farmers, or farm managers, or staff for granted. they come first.

 

 

Once again, I hope you get it sorted.

Edited August 29, 2009 by ShaggyRS6

[joeshaw08]

I understand that yes, I am shooting in their back garden and of course they have every right to make the decision. I just think it was a complete overeaction, and when he said that I take it for granted and I was way of of line, well...I don't deserve to be talked to like that. Also while me and my Dad were packing up afterwards that day, and I spotted a 4x4 slow down as he came past the field, didn't think anything of it but i've seen it around here before. Anyway today I spotted it again driving past my house, and the guy who was driving shoots for said farmer. So he'd obviously tittle-tattled, which I'm not too impressed about either! Perhaps he wanted it all to himself...I dunno.