fortune Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Keep calm chaps. It's all a bit of a lark don't you know, It ain't going to happen. Look at it like this, you cant even get the plod out to a burglary for many days just to announce “ well there’s not much we can do unless we catch them on the property >> Fat chance with a couple of cars on the road in Kent. With all the delays in renewals ECT. When have they got the time and resources get the pushbike and donkey out to start up a program like this? Hang on there’s a knock at the door >> The Spaniels gone loopy >>>> Stand to >>> Quacking in my boots >> Oh it’s the coalman. >> Stand down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Cheshire have just announced on local radio that they will be doing random visits on all their licence holders over the next year on the basis of crime prevention So will they actually do the visits I wonder or just say it on the radio to placate public opinion? I hope other people from Cheshire tell us of how the visits go. It does seem pretty pointless to do a visit due to crime prevention, I presume those people with the license have been checked and vetted, so exactly what crime is being prevented? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Lets just wait and see how this "new" ( ) initiative pans out. I think one or two people got more than a bit over emotional (and way to over sensitive) and read far more into this in the last thread than is ever going to happen. My opinion is this is tomorrows chip paper, it is designed for public consumption and I personally don't see the powers that be are making any suggestion we are terrorists (although that seems the only thing some can see). So, what is the fuss about...don't answer that.................. just report back in 3 months when you have all lost your FAC or the whole thing has been forgotten! Ok, so if we're going to kick off this thread where it was left, can you (or anyone else?) tell me what will be the response if or when they do call and I tell them (or indeed if I still can tell them) it isn't convenient, but I will be happy to let them in in half an hour? Sorry to be all emotional (haven't got me willy out yet though ) but you couldn't answer this last time; just wondered if you now can, 'cos even BASC don't appear to know the answer to this one. Despite David BASC having read the former thread he appears not to want to make an appearance. Do I have the choice or not? And if not, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 David doesn't have to look through all the threads on all the shooting forums and respond. If you are concerned why don't you contact BASC directly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Ok, so if we're going to kick off this thread where it was left, can you (or anyone else?) tell me what will be the response if or when they do call and I tell them (or indeed if I still can tell them) it isn't convenient, but I will be happy to let them in in half an hour? Sorry to be all emotional (haven't got me willy out yet though ) but you couldn't answer this last time; just wondered if you now can, 'cos even BASC don't appear to know the answer to this one. Despite David BASC having read the former thread he appears not to want to make an appearance. Do I have the choice or not? And if not, why not? As far as i know yes you do have a choice. Not sure how your renewal go if you say no! If all is ok with you storage I can't see any reason not to let them look at your gun security, thak them from door to cabinet and back to the door, its not like they are going to be doing a full search of your house checking all your pockets and down the back of the sofa. As i said before I've not got a problem with them doing the checks (they allways have been able to turn up unanounced if they wished) it was the way it was anounced with iffy statiscits and liking leagally held guns with terrorists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 David doesn't have to look through all the threads on all the shooting forums and respond. If you are concerned why don't you contact BASC directly? Totally agree; of course he doesn't, but in his position I would find it hard not to.I doubt contacting them directly would have any results as I'm no longer a member, but am awaiting a response from my organisation and will report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Ok, so if we're going to kick off this thread where it was left, can you (or anyone else?) tell me what will be the response if or when they do call and I tell them (or indeed if I still can tell them) it isn't convenient, but I will be happy to let them in in half an hour? Sorry to be all emotional (haven't got me willy out yet though ) but you couldn't answer this last time; just wondered if you now can, 'cos even BASC don't appear to know the answer to this one. Despite David BASC having read the former thread he appears not to want to make an appearance. Do I have the choice or not? And if not, why not? It does not need starting off again, and no good will come of it if you do, the law has not changed, neither has their power of entry, the answer to your question is simple............... if they had reason to enter before without a warrant they still can, if they didn't before then they still can't. What, if any, repercussions there may be, totally unofficially of course, if you refuse them entry, is open to any debate you like. Let it lie for a few months, and despite any authorities rhetoric, lets wait and see how much time is actually spent on these visits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Lets just calm down a bit....from Sporting Shooter... and whilst the new Home Office Guide (note "GUIDE") may well suggest this, do you seriously think this is new, which part of Para 2 below (and parts of para 1) comes as a surprise to anyone, were the police not doing this before, and if they were not, the obvious question has to be why not? Also note the part I made a bit larger a little further down the article. Have a nice day! Police across England and Wales are calling for firearm owners to make sure that their guns are being kept securely, as from 15 October 2014 police will be commencing home visits where there are concerns about security or risk. The new Home Office guidance states: “Where it is judged necessary, based on specific intelligence in light of a particular threat, or risk of harm, the police may undertake an unannounced home visit to check the security of a certificate holder’s firearms and shotguns. It is not expected that the police will undertake an unannounced home visit at an unsocial hour unless there is a justified and specific requirement to do so on the grounds of crime prevention or public safety concerns, and the police judge that this action is both justified and proportionate.” Over the last five years 3,296 firearms and shotguns have been reported as stolen or lost, although the number is falling with the figure just 415 in 2013. That total figure represents just 0.18 percent of licensed firearms. For stolen firearms that figure is just 0.025 percent. Furthermore, the figures do not state whether stolen guns were taken from private residences, commercial environments or the military. National Policing Lead for Firearms and Explosives Licensing, Chief Constable Andy Marsh said: “Our aim is not to catch gun owners out… We want to work with the shooting community to ensure gun owners are aware of how to keep their firearms secure… A lost or stolen firearm could end up in the hands of criminals who would pose a clear threat to the public. “Certificate holders who are clearly not complying with security measures may face having their certificates revoked. However, this is a last resort and where appropriate, support and advice will be provided.” No new powers of entry have been conferred on the police or police staff and there is no automatic statutory right to entry. The police must give a “clear and reasoned explanation” for any visit. BASC’s chief executive, Richard Ali, said: “BASC supports the police in their efforts to help firearms certificate holders maintain the excellent record of safety and security in England and Wales. Where there is specific intelligence of threat, risk or harm, the police should act. This guidance provides that framework and ensures that police give a clear and reasoned explanation at the time of the visit.” However, BASC described the new Crimestoppers hotline to encourage members of the shooting community and general public to report concerns about legally held firearms as “unnecessary and inappropriate.” One shooter, who wished to remain anonymous, expressed concern that the new legislation would provide an open season for antis to cause trouble by reporting or falsely accusing lawful shooters with impunity. “By mentioning terrorism and extremism, the police are preying on very real public fears but the evidence of a link between lawful UK shooters and extremist behaviour just does not exist.” The Countryside Alliance director of campaigns, Tim Bonner, while reiterating the CA’s support for checks where there is specific intelligence of risk, described the campaign as a “knee-jerk reaction to an unrelated problem. It is unjustified and ill-judged and will serve only to waste police resources and alienate a large and law-abiding section of the community.” He went on to suggest that the Crimestoppers hotline “will encourage malicious complaints.” What are your views? Do you think it is right to report a certificate holder if you have suspicions about gun security? Or is this just another excuse to marginalise lawful certificate holders? Drop us a line at the usual address. Edited October 21, 2014 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyBasher14 Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Looks like theyre making a real effort round our way then! Yeah it seems that way. Nothing to worry about if all your guns are secure . Was pretty painless when FAO came round like i said before, don`t know what the fuss is about . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I doubt contacting them directly would have any results as I'm no longer a member, Thanks for putting a smile on my face this afternoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 It does not need starting off again, and no good will come of it if you do, the law has not changed, neither has their power of entry, the answer to your question is simple............... if they had reason to enter before without a warrant they still can, if they didn't before then they still can't. What, if any, repercussions there may be, totally unofficially of course, if you refuse them entry, is open to any debate you like. Let it lie for a few months, and despite any authorities rhetoric, lets wait and see how much time is actually spent on these visits! Despite not wanting to 'start if off again' you feel the need to post the response above, and despite what you may think, I am neither 'emotional' nor 'over sensitive' and can assure you I am no stranger to the police knocking on my door. Also, despite stating that nothing has changed, no one can answer my question. Previously I could refuse the police entry if they had not made an appointment to inspect my security for no other reason than that is what they wanted to do. For all other reasons based on 'what the neighbours have said' or ' we have reports you have been seen popping into your local kebab house and mixing with swarthy types on a more than what we consider to be healthy basis Mr ...........' so in that respect I agree, nothing has changed. BUT, if they call round unannounced and ask to inspect my security for no other reason than to do so (unlikely, but you never know) can I still say 'no' if it isn't convenient for whatever reason?....on the nest (unlikely) going for a bath or actually in the bath(unlikely) taking a dump (very likely ). So despite assurances 'nothing has changed', can anyone tell me? Will report findings from shooting organisation when I get them. Thanks for putting a smile on my face this afternoon You're welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 New Government Initiative: Sinkhole Psychology There is a big hole at the bottom of the road, the police are looking into it but it is widely anticipated that it will take them forever to get to the bottom of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Not sure how your renewal go if you say no! Why should it effect your renewal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Why should it effect your renewal.... Because you could be seen as not being cooperative with the police maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 No need to panic chaps.let em in and do their bit im sure itll be quick and painless unless your slack with your security.im sure if they turned up and you had a life and death reason to be elsewhere im sure theyd re arrange a visit next day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Because you could be seen as not being cooperative with the police maybe If it's inconvenient, why is saying no not been cooperative... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 David doesn't have to look through all the threads on all the shooting forums and respond. How many of the BASC staff are in a position to offer up a response to PW members? As David does seem to be the most active....... TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Ok, so if we're going to kick off this thread where it was left, can you (or anyone else?) tell me what will be the response if or when they do call and I tell them (or indeed if I still can tell them) it isn't convenient, but I will be happy to let them in in half an hour? Sorry to be all emotional (haven't got me willy out yet though ) but you couldn't answer this last time; just wondered if you now can, 'cos even BASC don't appear to know the answer to this one. Despite David BASC having read the former thread he appears not to want to make an appearance. Do I have the choice or not? And if not, why not? It does not need starting off again, and no good will come of it if you do, the law has not changed, neither has their power of entry, the answer to your question is simple............... if they had reason to enter before without a warrant they still can, if they didn't before then they still can't. What, if any, repercussions there may be, totally unofficially of course, if you refuse them entry, is open to any debate you like. Let it lie for a few months, and despite any authorities rhetoric, lets wait and see how much time is actually spent on these visits! Despite not wanting to 'start if off again' you feel the need to post the response above, and despite what you may think, I am neither 'emotional' nor 'over sensitive' and can assure you I am no stranger to the police knocking on my door. Also, despite stating that nothing has changed, no one can answer my question. Previously I could refuse the police entry if they had not made an appointment to inspect my security for no other reason than that is what they wanted to do. For all other reasons based on 'what the neighbours have said' or ' we have reports you have been seen popping into your local kebab house and mixing with swarthy types on a more than what we consider to be healthy basis Mr ...........' so in that respect I agree, nothing has changed. BUT, if they call round unannounced and ask to inspect my security for no other reason than to do so (unlikely, but you never know) can I still say 'no' if it isn't convenient for whatever reason?....on the nest (unlikely) going for a bath or actually in the bath(unlikely) taking a dump (very likely ). So despite assurances 'nothing has changed', can anyone tell me? Will report findings from shooting organisation when I get them. You're welcome. Come on Scully, what do you mean no one can answer your question? I am struggling to understand what more of an answer you want, which part of #32 isn't clear ....if they had reason to enter before without a warrant they still can, if they didn't before then they still can't. Which part of that isn't clear, please also refer to the bold section in #33 as featured in Sporting Shooter,...FYI. reprinted below. No new powers of entry have been conferred on the police or police staff and there is no automatic statutory right to entry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I can see no problem if they wish to call on me anytime,if I am home they are welcome to check.as for making an appointment well that is just daft.can you make sure your guns are secured on Thursday at 1900 hrs so we can check.i would say that as a license holder you are bound to follow the rules for which they were granted and all they are doing is checking to see if you are complying with what has been the rules for many years now.if you had applied for say another calibre on your fac and the fao just stopped by as he was in the area anyway to discuss your needs would you tell him to go away and make an appointment.no you would bend over backwards if you thought you were getting what you want.lets be adult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 David doesn't have to look through all the threads on all the shooting forums and respond. If you are concerned why don't you contact BASC directly? quite right.i would suggest that david may just want to come on here for a bit of light banter yet from what I have seen on many occasions he gets a lot of abuse merely because he works for basc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) I comply with the relevant laws and always secure my guns properly. I have had jump through many hoops to get my certificates and the police have had to satisfy themselves I am a fit and proper person and not a risk before they were granted. If they think this has changed then they should have the courage of their convictions, sieze my guns and revoke my certificates. If not then they should leave me the **** alone to go about my lawful business. I am generally pro police, but this is intrusive, disproportionate and unnecessary and seriously pushes IMO the concept of policing by consent. Because I do not give my consent. I work away from home midweek and my wife who also works, is often home alone in the evenings, which is probably the only time an unannounced FEO visit would catch anyone in. She doesn't like unannounced callers at the best of times, let alone on dark winter evenings when she is in the house alone. For this reason we have a prominently displayed, POLICE SUPPLIED 'no cold callers sign' on our front door. Would they respect that? I have nothing to hide and always secure my guns properly, but that is not the point. If this ever happens (and I accept there is a good chance it may never) then I will lose a massive amount of respect and goodwill towards the police. If there is a problem with gun theft and/or terrorism, then target the thieves and terrorists not the easy target you have already established as law abiding, in a cynical attempt to be seen to be doing something. And breathe......... Edited October 21, 2014 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Come on Scully, what do you mean no one can answer your question? I am struggling to understand what more of an answer you want, which part of #32 isn't clear ....if they had reason to enter before without a warrant they still can, if they didn't before then they still can't. Which part of that isn't clear, please also refer to the bold section in #33 as featured in Sporting Shooter,...FYI. reprinted below. No new powers of entry have been conferred on the police or police staff and there is no automatic statutory right to entry. So if nothing has changed then why the need for a 'new initiative'? As I've said, I understand perfectly, and have never denied, that if the rozzers come a knocking and say a neighbour has spotted me running around my garden with a shotgun dressed in nothing more than matching DPM g-string and turban then they have a good reason I couldn't understandably deny, but still no one can tell me that if the rozzers call unannounced stating that they would like to check my security, I can say, sorry, but it isn't convenient right now. I could do this in the past, but despite claiming nothing has changed, no one can tell me if I can still do this. Not even you, despite being adamant 'nothing has changed'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I can see no problem if they wish to call on me anytime, Neither can I if it's convenient. if I am home they are welcome to check.Ditto, if it's convenient. as for making an appointment well that is just daft. I disagree. They have always made appointments with me in the past. Despite having vetted me and checked I am ok to be trusted with firearms, they now announce that I am deemed untrustworthy to the extent they think an unannounced visit may catch me out. can you make sure your guns are secured on Thursday at 1900 hrs so we can check. I have never been asked this at anytime, have you? i would say that as a license holder you are bound to follow the rules for which they were granted and all they are doing is checking to see if you are complying with what has been the rules for many years now. You're correct, as a license holder I am undoubtedly bound to comply to the rules for which they were granted, and as a mature, law-abiding adult I resent the fact I am now suspected of not complying. What possible reason could I have for not complying? f you had applied for say another calibre on your fac and the fao just stopped by as he was in the area anyway to discuss your needs would you tell him to go away and make an appointment. No, I wouldn't tell him to go away, but if it wasn't convenient I would ask him if he could call at another time, and make him a coffee just like last time. no you would bend over backwards if you thought you were getting what you want. Sorry, not with you there. lets be adult Couldn't agree more. I am an adult, I want to be treated as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 quite right.i would suggest that david may just want to come on here for a bit of light banter yet from what I have seen on many occasions he gets a lot of abuse merely because he works for basc. He is also mostly concerned with the insurance side of the organisation, IIRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyBasher14 Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I can see no problem if they wish to call on me anytime,if I am home they are welcome to check.as for making an appointment well that is just daft.can you make sure your guns are secured on Thursday at 1900 hrs so we can check.i would say that as a license holder you are bound to follow the rules for which they were granted and all they are doing is checking to see if you are complying with what has been the rules for many years now.if you had applied for say another calibre on your fac and the fao just stopped by as he was in the area anyway to discuss your needs would you tell him to go away and make an appointment.no you would bend over backwards if you thought you were getting what you want.lets be adult +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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