Ballistic tip or soft point for deer

[awwintle]

Hi guys,im just wondering what your opinion is on the above,which will be most humane for deer.

thanks Andy

[Baldrick]

 

What species? What shot placement? What calibre? What country?

 

I prefer premium soft-nose bullets to BTs, but I have had decent results with BTs in the past. There's a lot of equivocation about the legal position on BTs for deer.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Baldrick

[Lancs Lad]

like it baldrick.............great.........Can of worms.

 

 

Soft point........Balsitic tips............Cals.....................

 

308 for shoothing through cover.

 

243 balistic tip for open shooting..........

 

 

 

Balistics, or soft points..........each will do the same type of job to an extent........each "shrooming" to various degrees...........

 

 

end of the day..........a well placed shot will do the job.

[AndyCM]

I use both SP's & BT's

- I just make sure any BT's are hunting bullets (I don't want to use any varmint BT's on deer - although I know people who do, limiting themselves to neck shots on Roe & Fallow)

- what was that about a can-o-worms

Cheers

AndyCM

[Browning]

Ballistic tipped hunting bullets are fine as long as they are not driven too fast.

 

This past season I've used 120gn Nosler BT out of my .260Rem driven at 2800fps and they have

done the job very well indeed, no excessive meat damage, good penetration, very good stoppers.

[dodeer]

In my 6.5x55 i use Norma 120g Nosler Hunting ballistic tips which have proved to be superb!

.243 will use Federal 70g ballistics.

 

I have seen Roe shot with a .222 using Norma 40g Varmint ballistic tips ( a pure fox round) and they dropped em on the spot at ranges of upto 150yards.

 

I will always continue to use B/T's as i dont believe they cause anymore damage than S/P's if you chest shoot em.

[casts_by_fly]

we've shot nosler BT's in either 150 or 165 gr for whitetails since they were introduced. The 165's are the standard load for my and my dad's -06. Previous to that we shot 150 HP's. The HP's blew a bit bigger of a hole, but both dropped deer on the spot with shoulder shots. These are whitetails, which would be a bit bigger than the biggest Roe and a bit smaller than the smallest reds. Not far off a fallow, but I haven't seen too many fallow.

 

Thanks

Rick

[flytie]

I have used 140gn federal powershoks in my 6.5x55 and have been more than happy with them .

 

I have offered to help a friend with his fallow cull again next season and he has asked me to use either 120 Nosler BT's or 129gn SST's next time as he is paid by the carcass and likes to neck shoot them. It is what puts shoes on his kids feet and food on the table so i will happily oblige him. As long as it is a hunting BT and not a varmint BT there is not a problem.

 

ft

[fallowbuck]

I,m "Old School" don't like BT I have seen some pretty horrendous wounds caused by them.I stick to Spitzers.Thats just my opinion of course.

[Cushat]

SP - simply 'cause they group better in my rifle than the BT's I've tried.

[Tiff-TRG]

Use an A-MAX or Berger VLD, for the best of both worlds.

[henry d]

Just loading some BT`s and never even gave them a thought for deer, I`ve always used SP.

[The Burpster]

I use V-max.

 

50grn .22-250 for Munty.

 

 

110 -130grn .270 for larger species.

 

Mainly because I would prefer a well placed 'one shot kill' these are all 'cool' loads and not near the top of the loading range. These loads have not failed yet.

 

Excessive carcass damage....? I've not had a problem.

[Dunkield]

I use V-max.

Back to the can of worms...

 

V Max are not 'soft nosed or hollow nosed' or 'designed to deform in a predictable manner'

[The Burpster]

V-max are hollow nosed with a plastic tip pressed in. As are Nosler BT.

 

If you pull the plastic tip out you have a Hollow point.

 

As for 'can of worms' I am guided by the BDS with whom my qualifications are granted. They have no problem with Ballistic tip bullets being used as they believe as I do that BT is essentially a Hollow point. Both Hornady and Nosler describe these bullets as Hollowpoints (below taken from Nosler website)

 

# The Ballistic Tip® Hunting bullet's polycarbonate tip resists deformation in the magazine and initiates expansion upon impact.

# Fully tapered jacket and special lead alloy core allows controlled expansion and optimum weight retention at all practical velocity levels.

# Heavy jacket base acts as a platform for large diameter mushroom.

# Ballistically engineered Solid Base® boat tail configuration combines with the streamlined polycarbonate tip for extreme long range performance.

 

 

As long as it ensures a clean, efficient and humane cull, what the semantics of what the bullets are called is not important.

[Baldrick]

Burpster, I can't fault your claim that a de-tipped V-Max is effectively an HP round. But it's not the same as a bonded bullet like an A-Frame. Look at the cross-section of the 110gr V-Max for the .270: https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=4c...b3d6f0e6d42c466

 

It's a thin-jacketed vermin bullet and not the same as the other poly-tipped offerings from Hornady like the GMX, that look like a V-Max, but aren't. I have used that 110gr V-Max in my .270 for obliterating foxes, and the massive damage it inflicts would not induce me to use it for deer work.

 

It's unhelpful that Nosler applies little obvious distinction between its vermin and the deer-specific solid-based Ballistic Tip bullets.

[Mungler]

There's only one way to settle this....

[Baldrick]

Enlighten us, Mungler. A few photos for comparison?

Edited May 26, 2009 by Baldrick

[Flashman]

There's only one way to settle this....

... Fight !!!

[Harnser]

I dont know whats wrong with the good old fashion soft point expanding bullet . Used them for years with no complaint . But then i have allways managed to avoid the tackle tarts .

Harnser .

Edited May 26, 2009 by Harnser

[henry d]

.......But then i have allways managed to avoid the tackle tarts .

Harnser .

 

We have our first pugilist

[The Burpster]

Burpster, I can't fault your claim that a de-tipped V-Max is effectively an HP round. But it's not the same as a bonded bullet like an A-Frame. Look at the cross-section of the 110gr V-Max for the .270: https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=4c...b3d6f0e6d42c466

 

It's a thin-jacketed vermin bullet and not the same as the other poly-tipped offerings from Hornady like the GMX, that look like a V-Max, but aren't. I have used that 110gr V-Max in my .270 for obliterating foxes, and the massive damage it inflicts would not induce me to use it for deer work.

 

It's unhelpful that Nosler applies little obvious distinction between its vermin and the deer-specific solid-based Ballistic Tip bullets.

 

Baldrick,

 

Agreed, that bullets like the V-max and Nosler BT are not the same structure and share the same terminal ballistics as a heavily jacketted or partitioned bullet but that was not what the OP was asking was it?

 

The OP was asking (I hope genuinely) what we use, I replied honestly.

 

If you're read or you understand a little terminal ballistics you will (I hope) realise that to compare the hydraulic shockwave produced in a small animal like your fox, to that of an animal up to 10 times larger is irrelevant. This is because the larger fluid mass presented by the Deer will make the bullet behave differently upon impact. This is of course also velocity and bullet mass dependant.

 

So for you to say that a 110grn V-max inficted massive damage on a fox is not relavant to this argument. FYI I've hit a fox with .270 100grn sp and it also removed a large portion of its chest and most of its front nearside leg. That was with a hot load of Viht 150. So your point is a mute one.

 

 

My point was considerably simpler and didnt need an example. If the BDS are happy with the use of BT, and my game dealer (or my barbeque) have no issues (with the carcass damage that my loads and culls porduce) I dont see why there should be huge debate about what the name of the bullet is that caused it.

 

It produces clean humane kills, and it not against any regulations for the culling of Deer in England. IMO it doesn't cause excessive carcass damage on larger animals and if loaded at the bottom end of powder range does not seem to react the same way as it is claimed to do at the other end of the spectrum.

 

They work very well and reliably out of my rifle, which was my primary cause for concern and were recommended in the first place by a fellow stalker.

 

If the LAW changes to terminate the use of BTs for Deer culling then I will change, as it stands I wont.

 

I'm afraid I'm not sure I understand why others seem to be squeemish about this subject. Surely the only 2 questions that need to be answered for your choice of bullet are 1. is it lawful and 2. will it do the job?

Edited May 26, 2009 by The Burpster

[Baldrick]

Burpster, you're taking a needlessly defensive and patronising stance on this, and it is not a question of squeamishness. I'm not trying to convince you either way - I am merely saying that I choose not to use light-jacketed 110gr V-Max for shooting deer (to your undoubted amazement, my piddling intellect permits me a pretty thorough, practical understanding of wound pathology and terminal ballistics). I have shot deer with 110gr V-Max, and heavier BT bullets, but prefer the consistent, bone-crunching penetration of a partition bullet to the more modern approach. The results I get are more than satisfactory, but it is a question of each to his own. If you get good results, I doff my cap.

[CharlieT]

Burpster

 

V max is a bullet designed for dramatic expansion not controlled expansion and as such would be deemed unsuitable for deer. Nosler hunting BT bullets and Hornady SST are designed to give controlled expansion and are therefore suitable.

 

I am sure the BDS do not recommend V max for deer.

[Dunkield]

I wasn't going to return to this, as it always ends up going the same way :blink:

 

I know there are polymer tipped game rounds, but isn't the V Max intended as a varmint round?

 

I also agree with Charlies comments about the BDS, if anyone would oppose there use it would be them.