Cartridge choice for decoying pigeons

[Ferret Master]

I beg to differ FM. They are 32g 6.5s and a mighty fine pigeon cartridge to boot.

 

Re-read my post mate.

 

FM

[wymberley]

Pb, at least they're lead!!

[GW80]

Eley hi-pheasant 30g number 7, i find that these are the best shell for most of my shooting! if i was doing more driven pheastant i'd go up a size, but have found that these shells will cover most situations. The shells i'm mostly using now are spainard loads GB#s and must admitt that they are about the best i've used in nearly 20 years!!

[tweedledee]

i use 28g 7.5s when decoying.i tighten the chokes and find i get good kills.i used to use 32 no 6s but found the trap shells did the job.it works for mw others may say they need the heavier shell

[wymberley]

Over decoys IM happy to use 28g 7.1/2, 30 yard 1 shot kills in the air no probs, and I also use Gamebore clearpigeon 32g, 6 shot, I find them harder to decoy in close enough this time of year to be certain of clean kills but let be honest cutting through all of the proverbial unless your stupid enough to take extreme distance shots 40yards+, if your barrels in the right place either will bring them down, last summer I tried 250 Gamebore Pro steel 28g 7.1/2 over decoys with devastating results clean kills but limited range to 30yards (decoy placement!) No comments required!! I spoke to the Gamebore rep and he more than aware that pigeon shooters are using steel.

As for the meat damage not really an issue unless your shooting under 20 yards or point ####ing blank, I dont eat that many most are sold, I do a service for the farmer, crop protection and one which I enjoy.

It reminds of the article I read in the Shooting Times about some burks shooting high pheasants with a 28g now that is seriously stupid

Alan

Alan, thanks for that about the steel. On the thread that's now thankfully closed, the fallacy regarding smaller shot penetration reared its silly head and was quickly corrected. Because it was resolved decades ago, it's difficult to retrieve the evidence which I was going to post plus a piece which explains that if two different sized pellets deposit the same energy the smaller one's energy is more lethally effective (it was this that largely caused the confusion). This latter info was contained in a piece dating back to the start (ish) of the introduction of non-toxic shot and detailed a method of comparing accurately the performance of differing non-toxic shot with lead thrown in as a datum. The page was still open when I saw your post. I couldn't use Gamebore, so used Hull because their site has comprehesive ballistic details of their products. However, suffice to say, it opened my eyes and if the cost of lead keeps climbing and one doesn't shoot at extensive ranges, it could well become a serious option for consideration.

Cheers,

Phil

[sitsinhedges]

Alan, thanks for that about the steel. On the thread that's now thankfully closed, the fallacy regarding smaller shot penetration reared its silly head and was quickly corrected. Because it was resolved decades ago, it's difficult to retrieve the evidence which I was going to post plus a piece which explains that if two different sized pellets deposit the same energy the smaller one's energy is more lethally effective (it was this that largely caused the confusion). This latter info was contained in a piece dating back to the start (ish) of the introduction of non-toxic shot and detailed a method of comparing accurately the performance of differing non-toxic shot with lead thrown in as a datum. The page was still open when I saw your post. I couldn't use Gamebore, so used Hull because their site has comprehesive ballistic details of their products. However, suffice to say, it opened my eyes and if the cost of lead keeps climbing and one doesn't shoot at extensive ranges, it could well become a serious option for consideration.

Cheers,

Phil

 

The two different pellets wouldn't have the same energy at the same velocity though would they.

 

The smaller one would have to be travelling considerably faster to have the same kinetic energy so I don't see how this point has any value. It would generally be travelling slower due to less momentum.

 

Frankly I have come to the conclusion that 6 1/2s are probably the best way to go in 28g, I was out this evening and had to walk a good mile to where I was roost shooting. I took a 6lb 20g auto cos I couldn't cope with a heavy 12g to shoot heavy loads from.

[GW80]

after days and days of debate, i reckon it all comes down to NI guys just being better shots!!!!

[sako751sg]

Use 7.5s usually when deeking,and contrary to what some might think,i have an extremely clear consience.Found no probs at all for that ranges but he must bear in mind not to try the rangier shots.Also use them for most of my walked up shooting and very pleased with the results.Also never change from 3/4 and full choke,because its my gun and ill please myself,and not the nuggets who think they know it all.

[Alanl50]

Alan, thanks for that about the steel. On the thread that's now thankfully closed, the fallacy regarding smaller shot penetration reared its silly head and was quickly corrected. Because it was resolved decades ago, it's difficult to retrieve the evidence which I was going to post plus a piece which explains that if two different sized pellets deposit the same energy the smaller one's energy is more lethally effective (it was this that largely caused the confusion). This latter info was contained in a piece dating back to the start (ish) of the introduction of non-toxic shot and detailed a method of comparing accurately the performance of differing non-toxic shot with lead thrown in as a datum. The page was still open when I saw your post. I couldn't use Gamebore, so used Hull because their site has comprehesive ballistic details of their products. However, suffice to say, it opened my eyes and if the cost of lead keeps climbing and one doesn't shoot at extensive ranges, it could well become a serious option for consideration.

Cheers,

Phil

 

Hi Phil

I actually never thought about steel that much for pigeon untill a rather heated thread on here last year, one chap was using steel because he was supplying some one who owned birds of prey and with the obvious lead poisoning he started using steel, I happened to mention this to my RFD when he supprised me by saying a lot of people use steel over decoys, supprised I was, I bought 250 and my RFD say if I did not get on with them he would swap the remainder with lead for me well they never went back. I wouldnt push past the 30 yard limit personally with them but I will buy more when decoying starts to get serious again a 28g steel has approx the same shot load as 32g of lead and if my memory serves me right I paid £2.80 a box and when I questioned the game dealer about steel he said it doesnt matter, so there is a saving to be had, but I must stress they have a range limitation I would not personally push the 30 yard boundary.

All my other shooting is done with 32g 6 shot, 34g 5 shot and 36g 4 shot all lead

Regards Alan

[Alanl50]

The two different pellets wouldn't have the same energy at the same velocity though would they.

 

The smaller one would have to be travelling considerably faster to have the same kinetic energy so I don't see how this point has any value. It would generally be travelling slower due to less momentum.

 

Frankly I have come to the conclusion that 6 1/2s are probably the best way to go in 28g, I was out this evening and had to walk a good mile to where I was roost shooting. I took a 6lb 20g auto cos I couldn't cope with a heavy 12g to shoot heavy loads from.

 

Steel cartridges have a higher muzzle velocity to compensate for the density issue but obviously it loses it fps much quicker, so ranging your cartridge is very important.

Alan

[GW80]

**** it!!!

[Vince Green]

I think 7s are cheaper generally because they are predominately used for clays and clay shooters get through a lot more cartridges so the dealers know they are fast moving and can offer discounts. Sixes move more slowly off the shelf.

I still can't get on with the idea of using 28gm loads. Obviously the manufacturers like making them because they use 14% less shot compared to a 32gm load and so they are cheaper for them to produce. However, for the shooter it must be placing him at a disadvantage to use them compared to say 32gm loads. Whether that disadvantage is significant is a matter for the shooter to decide but having 14% less shot in the air can never be better can it?

 

We spend a lot of time and money on our shooting, so I want the best cartridge I can get and paying a bit extra for my 32gm cartridges so I get a 14% denser pattern is money well spent.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Vince Green

[utectok]

I beg to differ FM. They are 32g 6.5s and a mighty fine pigeon cartridge to boot.

There is no such cartridge as an Eley HP pigeon.

Mmm Sauce anyone? HP carts might want look again at that one!!

Edited January 24, 2010 by utectok

[shoughton]

I have noticed that in Archie Coat's DVD he appears to load different cartridges in his right and left barrels - I suspect this is deliberate different loads, but he doesn't refer to this in the narrative. I don't think he mentions it in his book either although I'll check that.

[MC]

I have noticed that in Archie Coat's DVD he appears to load different cartridges in his right and left barrels - I suspect this is deliberate different loads, but he doesn't refer to this in the narrative. I don't think he mentions it in his book either although I'll check that.

 

I noticed that as well,

 

It is probably a 8 or 9 in the first barrel and a 7 1/2 in the choked barrel. You know how effective these clay loads are when decoying pigeons.

[shoughton]

I noticed that as well,

 

It is probably a 8 or 9 in the first barrel and a 7 1/2 in the choked barrel. You know how effective these clay loads are when decoying pigeons.

 

He was a wise chap - he knew to use a 6 and a 9 so as to keep everybody happy

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

Archie rarely shot long distance birds in his early birds birds where less wise and come closer 20 yards .

 

He concerntrated on good recce and fieldcraft and he only use true cyclinder in both barrels I THINK I HAVE HIGHTLIGHTED THE THINK HE USED TRUE CYCLINDERS.

 

Regards OTH

Edited January 25, 2010 by Over the hill

[shoughton]

Archie rarely shot long distance birds in his early birds birds where less wise and come closer 20 yards .

 

He concerntrated on good recce and fieldcraft and he only use true cyclinder in both barrels I think.

 

Regards OTH

 

Not true. I read that section in his book at lunchtime! He used improved in the right and half in the left. Interestingly he also says that he always used to swear by 6's but then was sold on the use of 7's!!!!!

 

As you say Archie kept his ranges sensible - so based on that and his good shooting the cartridges probably weren't critical anyway.

[benelli montefeltro]

that is interesting indeed shoughton! straight from the horses mouth. oth must have read a different book or something then i guess

[inthedark]

Please, not again!!!

[George1990]

ANYONE FANCY A PINT?

[fortune82]

Im surprised this thread aint been shut down yet! All the rest have.

[Zapp]

Im surprised this thread aint been shut down yet! All the rest have.

 

Then the correlation between a thread remaining sensible and remaining open is clearly completely lost on you.

 

ZB

[fortune82]

OOH!

[wymberley]

The two different pellets wouldn't have the same energy at the same velocity though would they.

 

The smaller one would have to be travelling considerably faster to have the same kinetic energy so I don't see how this point has any value. It would generally be travelling slower due to less momentum.

 

Frankly I have come to the conclusion that 6 1/2s are probably the best way to go in 28g, I was out this evening and had to walk a good mile to where I was roost shooting. I took a 6lb 20g auto cos I couldn't cope with a heavy 12g to shoot heavy loads from.

Hi, 3rd point 1st, agree 100% or wouldn't have just spent a fortune on 1,000 of that nice Mr Lyalvale's finest.

1st point, no, agreed.

2nd point, please re-read my post and see where this was contained (non-toxic). It has immense value, think "energy density", and all will be revealed.

Cheers