edd Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 (edited) as i said guys i am just wondering , dont offen use a 12 only when my dad goes and then im only shooting over deks and wait till they are close e.g 30 to 40 yards so i was just wondering about it regards edd Edited November 23, 2005 by edd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROB REYNOLDS UK Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 after reading what some of you lot say you dont half contridict your selfs saying things like pellets can reach out to 400 or 500yrds but cant kill a pigeon at 80yrds some of you lot make me laff if you could just sit back and take a look at what some of you lot type i think you need more time in the field and less time on the puter i say ..some of you lot need to read less books and do more shooting iv met some of you know it alls before ,you know **** all but what you have read or heard and you stick out like a sore thumb iv been out with a game keeper mate of mine now in his sixtys and still going strong and was out pigeon shooting on some of his land when a pigeon came from the right out about 55yrds as i picked up my gun i heard him say dont bother its to far out ,i gave that pigeon about 4 1/2 foot lead and droped it dead in the air he said he has never seen that done or tryed it him self as he thought it to far out .he has now droped pigeon at 50 to 60yrds ,so dont tell me that the proper range is 40 yrds like some of you big shooters say and if any body on here says it cant be done get your self over to my ground and i will make you eat your words by proveing it can be done :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Of course it can be done. But you don't seem to understand the points made in any of the posts. Only one person has doubted the 80yds kill - everyone else is saying that, yes it can be done but at that range you are more than likely to miss. And if you do actually hit your target, then there is a fair chance you will simply injure it rather than kill it. If you are CONSISTENTLY killing birds out at 55yds (or more) then you should be shooting for England. Consistently means percentages in the high 90s i.e. you miss one or two shots in EVERY hundred you take. I don't think I can make the points any easier to understand - or are you being deliberately obtuse you devil? Piebob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 I hate to add physics,you remember-laws that govern the whole universe,but here goes,at 50yds the lead required to CENTRE THE PATTERN on the target is 11"1` and that is for a target crossing or overhead at 40 mph. For an estimated 4 1/2" lead the target would need to be at less than 20mph,and if you`ve ever had a woodie fly parallel with your car you`ll know they flap their wings deceptively slow at 40-50 mph so less than 20 mph would seem like stalling speed or your estimate of 4 1/2" is,and this isn`t having a go,a bit short.We have to remember that unless you are using constant lead,as opposed to bum belly beak bang,then you have calculated the correct lead for the speed of the target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 (edited) Awww, why did you have to go and spoil it all with facts and irrefutable laws? Let's hear some more anecdotal evidence, supported by vague memories from a rosy past. Edited November 23, 2005 by Piebob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Awww, why did you have to go and spoil it all with facts and irrefutable laws? Let's hear some more anecdotal evidence, supported by vague memories from a rosy past. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 :*) sorry :*) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROB REYNOLDS UK Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 (edited) I hate to add physics,you remember-laws that govern the whole universe,but here goes,at 50yds the lead required to CENTRE THE PATTERN on the target is 11"1` and that is for a target crossing or overhead at 40 mph.For an estimated 4 1/2" lead the target would need to be at less than 20mph,and if you`ve ever had a woodie fly parallel with your car you`ll know they flap their wings deceptively slow at 40-50 mph so less than 20 mph would seem like stalling speed or your estimate of 4 1/2" is,and this isn`t having a go,a bit short.We have to remember that unless you are using constant lead,as opposed to bum belly beak bang,then you have calculated the correct lead for the speed of the target. what the **** are you on now work this one out if the said pigeon is flying in to a 10mph head on wind and has slowed down to have a look at the decoys but is still way out to 55yrds and is some were like 35yrds up how much lead would i have to give then ???at a gess i would say 4 1/2 ft lead like iv already said to many books Edited November 23, 2005 by ROB REYNOLDS UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROB REYNOLDS UK Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 heres another one for you , what is the spread at 55yrds useing 3/4 choke no6 ?? at a gesss with out getting my calcucator i would say ..now this is off the top of my head 5ft ....how did i do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 (edited) 5 Feet and how many pellets are in the kill zone of a bird know your pattern/range & don't feed the ****in antis :o SHOOT within reasonable range of a SHOTGUN if you don't know that LEARN. Tam. Edited November 23, 2005 by Tam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Whats the trick to shooting goiong away birds? I've been shooting pigeons for a year now simply cannot hit anything flying away from me. Crossers and incoming birds, no problem. i think we are all forgetting the first post here new to the sport and asking for advice the point i was trying to make if he can not hit birds flying away u dont tell him u can hit birds at 80 yrds . not good advice. rob reynolds not having a pop at u in the right conditions and with experence u can take very long birds just dont agree with this advice to someone who,s only been shooting a year ? if we were closer rob i would of loved to come out with u perhaps we could of tought each other a thing or too. no hard feelings mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyni Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 heres another one for you , what is the spread at 55yrds useing 3/4 choke no6 ?? practically useless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 the pattern of a shotgun is a 3 dimensional thing and believed to be similar to a teardrop and as it is a dynamic thing,as is the target,is the reason we can shoot moving objects with relative ease. So we have a swinging gun a moving target and a 3D cloud of pellets and not a flat pattern,so it is the interaction of the target in one direction with the pellet cloud travelling perpendicular to it(overhead/crossing shots)and where the target and pellets interact is the kill or not as the case may be.The ratio of area to ensure a clean kill will decrease with range as will individual pellet energy,this will tend towards exponential as the distance to the target increases their is less likelyhood of multiple pellet strikes and therefore a humane kill. Now the maths...55yd out and35yd high that means a distance of 65yds to the target according to Pythagorus(Ok 65.19.......) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 wow Henry, that snow really has affected ya I never knew you had it in ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 I thought we only had these arguements in the air gun section!! Can't we just leave him to say what he thinks on an open forum? After all the antis have not got enough ammo yet and want to quote Rob in their latest announcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Wow Henry all that science! sounds like a shampoo advert I like to think of shotgun pattern as water out of a hose pipe, as soon as you stop swinging so it stops spraying - maybe I need to stay ina bit more and think a bit more deeply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beater Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 I think if your a good enough shot you can push shotgun range up 2 55/60yards, the likes of Digweed and Alborne can handle that range all day. But you'll want the right gun & load, 34/36g 4s, tight cokes. I'll go roost shooting every other weekend & most birds are rd 40/50yards but i'll never shot with anything under 32g 5s. How many shoots ***** birds at 30yrds over decoys with 28g 7.5 ? A good few on an off day a think. You need 2 get on the clays and see what range you can handle, we're all at different levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Beater, You are spot on with your comments - I know that Diggy and Jim shoot the tightest chokes they have with biggest loads they can find - 35/36 gram. As you probably know they are pretty well built guys that can handle big loads with no problem, and if you've ever shook Diggy's hand, (as I did after beating him in a shoot off), you'll know he has hands like dinner plates..!! These guys are in a different league...........!!!!!!!!!!!!! Double H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMY Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 All very entertaining, I'll have to comment. In my experience some 30 years shooting, I've killed birds of all varieties at extreme ranges maybe to 70yards. And backing up HD comments, on inspection it's usually been 1 or 2 lucky pellets to the head or a lung that has brought them down. The average game cartirdge through the average choke shot by an average shhoter shall not have an effective pattern at these ranges.....luck is usually what brings them down. And I agree these ranges ar not really acceptable but we've all done it, haven't we??? Hammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackthorn Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 the pattern of a shotgun is a 3 dimensional thing and believed to be similar to a teardrop and as it is a dynamic thing,as is the target,is the reason we can shoot moving objects with relative ease.So we have a swinging gun a moving target and a 3D cloud of pellets and not a flat pattern,so it is the interaction of the target in one direction with the pellet cloud travelling perpendicular to it(overhead/crossing shots)and where the target and pellets interact is the kill or not as the case may be.The ratio of area to ensure a clean kill will decrease with range as will individual pellet energy,this will tend towards exponential as the distance to the target increases their is less likelyhood of multiple pellet strikes and therefore a humane kill. Now the maths...55yd out and35yd high that means a distance of 65yds to the target according to Pythagorus(Ok 65.19.......) wish i went to school instead of having to take me shoes and socks of to count me change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROB REYNOLDS UK Posted November 28, 2005 Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 (edited) Beater, You are spot on with your comments - I know that Diggy and Jim shoot the tightest chokes they have with biggest loads they can find - 35/36 gram. As you probably know they are pretty well built guys that can handle big loads with no problem, and if you've ever shook Diggy's hand, (as I did after beating him in a shoot off), you'll know he has hands like dinner plates..!! These guys are in a different league...........!!!!!!!!!!!!! Double H so now your saying you have to be big and fat with big hands like fat boy digweed before you can shoot and at theses ranges :blink: well im half way there i have the big hands and i is big but no were near as fat as digweed Edited November 28, 2005 by ROB REYNOLDS UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted November 28, 2005 Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 pigeons have no meat on there backs and its the birds weak point ..dont rush your shot there is no rush if you miss it ,its there for another day mmm would disagree with the weak point bit here. Pigeons have a hard grissley area at their backs, it's where all those loose feathers come from when you'd swear you've killed the bird. That hard grissle protects the vital organs which maybe why ferretmanabu isn't bringing them down shooting them up the backside! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretmanabu Posted November 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 I just clean miss them. No feathers come off. :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROB REYNOLDS UK Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 (edited) i will say it again for them who think they no it all ie thick ******* the back is the weak spot on a pigeon than any were else but the head .a few in the rear will bring it down and thoses who say different tell me were the weak points are ?? its the back and head one pellet can bring them down if hit in theses places Edited December 13, 2005 by ROB REYNOLDS UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 here we go again rob you are a **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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