Harnser Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 I will go as far as to say that a 12 bore shot gun up close is a better method of humane dispatch than a captive bolt . A shot gun would be no good in the confines of a slaughter house but outside in the field it is a better choice if you can get in close enough . If you carnt get close enough with the shot gun then the captive bolt will be worse than useless . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dempy Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Thats why we have dsc's, and thats why slaughtermen get assessed in a similar way. Everyday I see people on the road who have passed the driving test, but it doesnt make them good drivers. I am not going to argue about this all night, somebody asked if he could shoot a bull with a shotgun and I said yes, I stand by that answer and if I get a phonecall tonight to dispacth a cow it will be the gauge I will be taking. And I know that it will be very quick and I wont be thinking "I wish I called a ............" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 That comment was by far a knock at you, or your professional standards, it was aimed at the other, how many other than a handful who have actually killed a large animal? I wish I could explain my job publically. The welfare act does indeed put the onus on the owner, but also protects the animal from unneccesary suffering, thats the point. Don't try and kill a bull, with no experience and not knowing what to do when things go wrong. A animal with a broken limb is better off waiting for expert dispatch, I sat with my daughter for nearly 70 hours with an inflammed appendix, thats acceptable apparently, I'm just saying make sure its done right, swiftly and with minimal risk to human and animal. I have no illusion of grandeur and I am wrong at time! The Animal Welfare Act 2006 puts the emphasis on owner of the animal to provide for its welfare and prevent unnecessary suffering. In my opinion keepers of animals that can't be easily transported to the vet should have the means and skill required to perform emergency euthanasia if necessary. I agree with you it's not the ideal thing to learn off the internet. less vets and less slaughtermen mean animals may have to wait an unacceptable length of time for skilled assistance. If an animal has an obvious broken leg then I think it's better the owner goes for the shotgun or captive bolt and puts it out of its misery there and then. If we have less vets covering bigger areas wouldn't it be better us doing the saving of lives (calvings and caesarians) rather than the humane killing of animals. Shooting a cow is not hard - I could teach it to any capable person (is SGC holder) in a few minutes. In the past I have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Everyday I see people on the road who have passed the driving test, but it doesnt make them good drivers. I am not going to argue about this all night, somebody asked if he could shoot a bull with a shotgun and I said yes, I stand by that answer and if I get a phonecall tonight to dispacth a cow it will be the gauge I will be taking. And I know that it will be very quick and I wont be thinking "I wish I called a ............" Had a 20 bore.... :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dempy Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Had a 20 bore.... :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Tait Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Isn't this getting a bit silly? The advice the OP was given was the same advice I'd give anyone, over the phone or not. Assuming it's not a wind up (and I have no reason to believe it is), we had a question about how best to deal with an injured bull. The size doesn't matter; people have been killed by cows as well as bulls. Any animal that size deserves some respect. What matters is the welfare of the animal in question. There is a lot more leeway with a 12b than with a captive bolt. A small margin of error with a bolt can lead to a non effective stun. The same margin with a shotgun won't make a blind bit of difference. At the very least the animal would be rendered insensible? Admittedly, bulls can be a problem - I have had one that took 3 shots with the .32 before I was satisfied - I was wishing I had the 10b with me!! I'm a vet in mixed practice as well as supervising in an abattoir, so I would like to think that I know what I'm on about?? Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 (edited) Yes until the 2001 foot and mouth outbreak when the law was changed. Now you can only bury a 'pet' or livestock in approved remote areas (basically Scottish highlands and islands) Really? Even small mammals, Rabbits? Hamsters etc? suburbia is littered with bodies of small animals and some larger ones my grandfather buried a horse in his front lawn! This is a very interesting subject. On the farm where I shoot there are lots of cattle and sheep and I've often wondered what i would do if one day the farmer asked me to destroy a sick or injured animal...to be honest I don't know if I would be confident enough to do it. A sheep maybe as it's a far smaller animal but a cow or bull.....hopefully I'll never be asked. I agree, I have seen the issue come up before normally about road hit deer, i.e. how to deal with one struggling in the middle of the road. I am of the opinion that thos eof us with SGC and FAC should all be able to do this, if the need ever arose, as unlikely as it is i feel there should be more information available, I have read about the police calling out a local FAC/SGC holder to animals struck by traffic or in a disabled state, I guess most forces have vets on call and the days of "no win no fee" every one should have insurance (do the main shootign organisations insurance cover humane despatch?) Edited September 8, 2010 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonblasterian Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Just as a matter of interest would a 12 bore be suitable to dispatch an injured horse.Only asking as i once saw one that was hit by a car and was obviously not going to get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Bu Le Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 is a 12 bore shotgun capapable at point blank like half a foot? just need to know cos its that or someone with a rifle OMG get a vet for crying out loud!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Bu Le Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 (edited) is a 12 bore shotgun capapable at point blank like half a foot? just need to know cos its that or someone with a rifle[/quote Double post Edited September 8, 2010 by Sha Bu Le Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Really? Even small mammals, Rabbits? Hamsters etc? suburbia is littered with bodies of small animals and some larger ones my grandfather buried a horse in his front lawn! Sorry - I edited my post and it makes little sense! You CAN bury pets, but not livestock EXCEPT in very remote areas special permission has been given. I agree, I have seen the issue come up before normally about road hit deer, i.e. how to deal with one struggling in the middle of the road. I am of the opinion that thos eof us with SGC and FAC should all be able to do this, if the need ever arose, as unlikely as it is i feel there should be more information available, I have read about the police calling out a local FAC/SGC holder to animals struck by traffic or in a disabled state, I guess most forces have vets on call and the days of "no win no fee" every one should have insurance (do the main shootign organisations insurance cover humane despatch?) The police don't usually have people on call. They rely on private vets and in some places informal groups of people who are competent to carry out the task. The private vet could be a long way away or tied up doing something else. I agree about SGC and FAC holders should be able to do it. With a shotgun you can, but depends what it says on your FAC. Just as a matter of interest would a 12 bore be suitable to dispatch an injured horse.Only asking as i once saw one that was hit by a car and was obviously not going to get better. It would be fine and if I came across this situation driving home from shooting then I would. Not suggesting you should, but it would be legal and effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 (edited) Just as a matter of interest would a 12 bore be suitable to dispatch an injured horse.Only asking as i once saw one that was hit by a car and was obviously not going to get better. I would like to know this too OMG get a vet for crying out loud!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well a couple of issues with that, Vets dont hang around waiting for a phone call and then come out for free! In a remote area you could be waiting a few hours for a Vet to come out if someone is able to do this sooner and minimise distress and suffering do they not have a duty to do this? Where do you draw the line what do you do if you find a cat that's been run over? a Dog? a Sheep? a Deer? Thankyou apache, I understand an FAC holder who didn't have Humane despatch on the ticket or the rifle with that condition with them then they could end up in hot water for "doing the right thing" which i feel is a nonsense. I have a box of 30G No 6 i was given which i doiubt I will ever use but will keep for just such an eventuality. Probably not the right place for this but it would be good to know more about humane despatch perhaps there could be a sticky on the subject somewhere. Found a useful article here: http://www.bestpracticeguides.org.uk/culli...neDispatch.aspx Edited September 8, 2010 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 I agree about SGC and FAC holders should be able to do it. With a shotgun you can, but depends what it says on your FAC. both my shotgun and rifles say sporting purpose and vermin control, dont mention anything about humane dispatch - is NI different then?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Well a couple of issues with that, Vets dont hang around waiting for a phone call and then come out for free! In a remote area you could be waiting a few hours for a Vet to come out if someone is able to do this sooner and minimise distress and suffering do they not have a duty to do this? Where do you draw the line what do you do if you find a cat that's been run over? a Dog? a Sheep? a Deer? (in a funny way I am enjoying this thread) A worthwhile note - euthanasia is not an act of veterinary surgery and can be done by any person on any animal so long as the animal is killed quickly and further suffering doesn't ensue. I would recommend that any of you who find this interesting get a copy of "Humane Killing of Livestock Using Firearms 2nd ed" Available for the sum of £5 from the HSA http://www.hsa.org.uk/Publications/Guidance%20Notes.html There is an excellent video/dvd available for £15 http://www.hsa.org.uk/Publications/Training%20Packages.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 both my shotgun and rifles say sporting purpose and vermin control, dont mention anything about humane dispatch - is NI different then?! I have no idea - I'm in England! Maybe speak to your firearms department? As them if they would add 'emergency slaughter of livestock' or similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 I'm on both sides of the fence here. A 12g at 6in should do almost anything living (even an animal that uses it's head as a main method of fighting/survival). When I was 18 I worked in a slaughter house and saw a couple of cattle get back up after being 'bolted'. You have never seen so many big blokes leg it so quickly (esp. the ones in white coats). If your bull was not killed instantly, I for one would not be interested in hanging around to see if you managed to get a second shot in, whether it had a broken leg or not. A ton of rightiously peed off beef (albeit on 3 legs), fataly wounded and blaming you, is not a situation I'd fancy being in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 I have no idea - I'm in England! Maybe speak to your firearms department? As them if they would add 'emergency slaughter of livestock' or similar? i would but theres two feo's and ones a complete ****, he seems to be looking for a reason to revoke someones cert, and im not gonna be that person :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikee Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 did he shoot it then, and if so what with or did he get a vet mikee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonblasterian Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 It would be fine and if I came across this situation driving home from shooting then I would. Not suggesting you should, but it would be legal and effective. Thanks for that i am not saying i would.But i might if in the same situation though i hope not to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 9, 2010 Report Share Posted September 9, 2010 cattle with the farmer present are very different to a horse with the owner present. I'd seriously think twice about the latter as were anything to go wrong the owner wouldn't take it well, whereas the farmer would just say give it another one. Deer roadside I've done the odd one and seen a fair few done and you can go front or back of the head doesn't make much difference. Had the local keeper out to a sickly fallow buck a few months ago, 10ft away job done with 6's. What you don't want to do is use a free bullet in a town environment and hit a kerb stone on the exit, seen that done on the edge of Hitchin with two policemen in attendance. Kyska obviously you are used to killing in a confined environment which is fine the average accident with a cow will be in the middle of nowhere. Vet may be available may not be, not sure where you find a slaughterman at night but mostly round here there are a couple of Knackermen. If you don't have hunt kennels then they usually operate on a big patch our local one is 20 miles away so you have an option of leaving a suffering animal or sorting it out. Fundamentally it really isn't rocket science and two vets on here gave guidance and didn't seem to think it a particularly big deal. The first one will always have you wondering till you've done it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMMER BURT Posted September 9, 2010 Report Share Posted September 9, 2010 all i wont to know is has this poor bull been shot dead yet?:blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosdesilva Posted September 9, 2010 Report Share Posted September 9, 2010 Reminds me of the time i put my nans elderly budgie down,i couldnt decide on the .22 bsa meteor or .177 webley tempest.Went with the .177 and ended up digging the pellet out of her front room wall,just missing her picture of the late princess Diana which was lucky.Old Bluey went over ok god rest him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted September 9, 2010 Report Share Posted September 9, 2010 Can i have first baggies on the rump and loin please, i want some meat for the BBQ at Weston next weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted September 9, 2010 Report Share Posted September 9, 2010 I have not ploughed through all this, but the quickly bit comes to mind...what happened to the Bull in the end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyCM Posted September 9, 2010 Report Share Posted September 9, 2010 Reminds me of the time i put my nans elderly budgie down,i couldnt decide on the .22 bsa meteor or .177 webley tempest.Went with the .177 and ended up digging the pellet out of her front room wall,just missing her picture of the late princess Diana which was lucky.Old Bluey went over ok god rest him! So would you use .22 next time ? Does it make a difference what colour budgie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.