jinxy72 Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 Does anyone else think the build quality of NEW shotguns aint as good as it use to be when comapred to older guns from the same maker ? The reason im saying this is because ive just bought a miroku 6000 TR-1 high rib trap gun off here and was amazed at the build quality of the gun saying it was built in 1983. Now this has been looked after very well ( credit to you KPV4 ) and is mint condition ... apart from minor marks on the stock ( hardly see them ) this gun could have easily been built in the last few years .. everything about it feels quality .. the wood of the stock ( everyone knows new woods aint as good now cos they are dried too quickly ) , the action is silky smooth with a positive click when u shut it ( comparing it to a new gun this is like shutting the door of a rolls royce compared to an escort ) .. even the barrels feels quality. Now dont get me wrong , everyone knows the new miroku's are great guns and the main reason i bought an older one ( glad i did now ) was cost .... new high rib trap guns are expensive.. but i did look at the mk38 and though a very good gun it just didnt 'feel' as good a quality. do you think they changed from 'quality' to 'quantity' due to growth ? ... or maybe modern day materials just aint the same ( we all know machines are used more now to cut on labour costs ) .... and it aint just miroku ..it seems to be all of them ... i did notice the difference with a friends beretta ( new ) ... just didnt 'feel' as good as the equiv older model Now im talking ' like for like' build quality (comparing older model to equiv new model) not comparing a £10,000 perazzi to a lanber ..... but what does everyone think ? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 With advances in machining technology they should be far better now and more consistent. Don't know if they are though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorpeet Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 Was chatting to my local gunsmith about this the other day and he think's the older Beretta's were better built than the newer stuff (Browning too). He also said that Beretta had done away with quality control on all mainstream guns. They wouldn't do that unless they were confident that their modern engineering but only time will tell I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSPUK Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 A mate of mine has 6000 Grd 5 trap gun - superb wood and and receiver is stunning - engraved by hand I believe and I much prefer it over another mates DT10EELL - that seems to be stamped engraved and plastic wood although I doubt it is. - The DT10 for what it is doesn't have look and feel of 6000. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinxy72 Posted September 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 (edited) With advances in machining technology they should be far better now and more consistent. Don't know if they are though well yes u would think so and prob are more tech advanced than their older versions ( and still just as reliable if not more so ) but they just dont ' feel ' it . i think quality of componants has changed ... in the uk steel was always high quality with sheffield making the best stainless in the world .. but now ( due to cost ) most things are coming from the far east as a lot cheaper ... i do wonder if ' cheaper ' isnt as good a quality. Edited September 25, 2010 by jinxy72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinxy72 Posted September 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 A mate of mine has 6000 Grd 5 trap gun - superb wood and and receiver is stunning - engraved by hand I believe and I much prefer it over another mates DT10EELL - that seems to be stamped engraved and plastic wood although I doubt it is. - The DT10 for what it is doesn't have look and feel of 6000. Dave dont know what grd mine is m8 but it looks and feels great ... so well balanced too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune82 Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 My gunsmith told me he reckons Beretta have cut costs on their new guns compared with the older models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 I don't think this is more apparent than when comparing the old 101 line of shotguns with the new models such as the Winchester Select etc.I,ve no doubt there's absolutely nothing wrong with the Select,but when you pick one up it just doesn't feel right.Maybe it's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinxy72 Posted September 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 I don't think this is more apparent than when comparing the old 101 line of shotguns with the new models such as the Winchester Select etc.I,ve no doubt there's absolutely nothing wrong with the Select,but when you pick one up it just doesn't feel right.Maybe it's just me. no m8 ... seems all makers aint making them to the old quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COACH Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 I have to agree entirely. I`v been saying this for the last 5 years or so. I get to shoot lots of different guns in my job and have seen a massive change. Everything about the guns these days is cheaper and definitely not for the better, but cost a lot more. Without doubt the best guns were made between the late seventies and right through the eighties to the early nineties. I have a Winchester 6500 mk2 made in the mid eighties and it is pure quality as are all old Winchesters. The new ones are absolutely awful in every way. If you want to buy a really good gun then buy a nice Beretta/Browning/Miroku/Winchester from the eighties, they are far better built and handle superbly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 A gunsmith told me that 20 years ago a gun was built the cost calculated and % profit added these days they pick a sale price, deduct the profit margin then build a gun to the base cost. Same as most things to be honest, but if a gun has design life of say 30,000 carts and you find a 20 year old one thats fired 5,000 it has plenty of life left, buy a 5 year old one thats fired 29,000 carts it's not got much life left....... That said i offered to buy a "club gun" today god knows how many 1,000's of carts its done! but it fits the missus and she likes it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 I tend to agree that older guns were made to a better standard, i had an early 80's browning 325 not so long back and everything was just right, even the wood was nice which is rare for a grade 1 browning, probably the equivalent of a grade 3 nowadays. Also have an early 90's 686 s which i've fallen hopelessly in love with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh warrior Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 has every one forget the old old way of making guns ? im on about damascus steel... they lost the art of that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 I have to agree entirely. I`v been saying this for the last 5 years or so.I get to shoot lots of different guns in my job and have seen a massive change. Everything about the guns these days is cheaper and definitely not for the better, but cost a lot more. Without doubt the best guns were made between the late seventies and right through the eighties to the early nineties. I have a Winchester 6500 mk2 made in the mid eighties and it is pure quality as are all old Winchesters. The new ones are absolutely awful in every way. If you want to buy a really good gun then buy a nice Beretta/Browning/Miroku/Winchester from the eighties, they are far better built and handle superbly. ide have to agree, i think the semis are better these days though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinxy72 Posted September 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 ide have to agree, i think the semis are better these days though. yes id have to agree semi's and i'd say pumps too are better .... but id say thats it the rest just dont seem the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinxy72 Posted September 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 has every one forget the old old way of making guns ? im on about damascus steel... they lost the art of that very true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh warrior Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 very true i mean they still do it im sure i seen a purdey in the gun magazine the ohter day ..but they have lost the art totaly very sad really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COACH Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 The guns built in the eighties were easily capable of shooting 250,000 cartridges and more with a little TLC My Winchester has has never been touched by a gunsmith and has shot around 200,000 and is in wonderful condition with perfect barrels because it`s well looked after and serviced by myself twice a year. I`v seen a lot of the old Beretta 682s that their owners have had since new and must have shot 100,000 cartridges at least by now and I would buy one tomorrow if the price was right. I wonder if some of the newer guns will last for 30 or more years with regular heavy use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twitchynik Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 Interesting topic having just bought a 20+ year old 686 Beretta! Compared it up against a brand new 686 Silver Pigeon Universal (effectively the modern day equivalent) and while I'm not able to tell much difference in build quality it was obvious that the older gun had much, much nicer wood. Another thought on old vs. new, how often can you say that a 20 year old item has only lost about 25-30% of its relative value? Either that or the new items are being sold (made?) for much less than they used to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostmantra Posted September 26, 2010 Report Share Posted September 26, 2010 hi all new to this, i have just bought a beretta silver pigeon a very tight gun lovely fit and feel to it i was checking out how old it was, turns out its 28 years old (i would have never guessed it was that old) so what do you guys think i paid 1000 euro was i robbed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jega Posted September 26, 2010 Report Share Posted September 26, 2010 has every one forget the old old way of making guns ? im on about damascus steel... they lost the art of that No they haven't they just cost a little bit more nowadays ,now repeat after me Dear Santa Claus ................ http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/498519/Pu...gun_review.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmicblue Posted September 26, 2010 Report Share Posted September 26, 2010 (edited) Mmmm tricky! Like many modern items we can buy today manufacturing production costs have fallen through increased automation - and in the case of guns mechanical fit quality is often exceptionally good. The stock fit process is now computer machine controlled too with the wood being quickly and accurately cut and shaped to perfection. The 'perceived quality' bit gets blurred by two things: 1) Material technology - i.e. special finishes like the pseudo wood on some modern Winchester and Mirokou guns and improved steels and alloys - that can potentially last longer wear less. 2) Branding - i.e FN are clearly seeking to carve separate markets for their respective brands - Browning, Mirokou & Winchester (there are others too) - each with different price points even though the basic mechanical concepts are often similar Those brands that sit in higher price points often produce guns that are still as beautifully made as those of yesteryear - cost no object - a really nice piece of wood is still exactly that with a substantial price premium attached. Quality engraving and chequering done by hand......this costs lots. I'd perhaps argue that there are guns that are still made as well as they were 20+ years ago with a big BUT attached in that it's now possible to buy truly mass produced items that have been made to a price rather than to a durable quality standard. A case of 'buyer beware'! Edited September 26, 2010 by Cosmicblue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted September 26, 2010 Report Share Posted September 26, 2010 It might be the case that older guns were better built, but I have my doubts. The wood to metal fit on some older Berettas bordered on dreadful - the later ones are far better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy22 Posted September 26, 2010 Report Share Posted September 26, 2010 ive just bought a miroku 6000 TR-1 high rib trap gun off here and was amazed at the build quality of the gun saying it was built in 1983. ..... this gun could have easily been built in the last few years If that's what you think, evidently the quality is exactly the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinxy72 Posted October 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 If that's what you think, evidently the quality is exactly the same. not exactly ... maybe i didnt phrase it correctly as i was referring to the condition of the gun i bought not comparing it to the guns of today ... the gun i bought is in mint condition ' like new ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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