Semi Auto's and Game Birds

[Vermincinerator]

Hi All,

My shooting buddy is convinced that it is illegal to shoot game birds with a semi-auto shotgun, i said he is wrong but i cannot find any evidence of this either way, any information would be greatly appreciated thanks

 

Ian.

[al4x]

its illegal if the magazine holds more than 2 cartridges but otherwise legal,

[TJ91]

as above

 

but its just not the done thing on most 'shoots'

[poontang]

but its just not the done thing on most 'shoots'

 

Why's that then?

[Albertan_J]

This will get a few replies

[Scully]

Now then Poontang....you may have started something here.This is something that annoys me due to the utter snobbishness and hypocracy that surrounds it.

It's considered 'unsporting'(something those uncultured colonials would do!) to shoot game birds with a semi-auto,but not considered unsporting to 'double gun' for some reason.I believe the record for most dead birds in the air at one time is seven,achieved by some long dead titled 'gentleman'.Try that with a semi-auto,even with a full re-load.

[poontang]

Now then Poontang....you may have started something here.

 

Moi?

[al4x]

Now then Poontang....you may have started something here.This is something that annoys me due to the utter snobbishness and hypocracy that surrounds it.

It's considered 'unsporting'(something those uncultured colonials would do!) to shoot game birds with a semi-auto,but not considered unsporting to 'double gun' for some reason.I believe the record for most dead birds in the air at one time is seven,achieved by some long dead titled 'gentleman'.Try that with a semi-auto,even with a full re-load.

 

 

go out and experience a game day and a bit of tradition and you may just realise why people don't think semis have a place in game shooting

[Breastman]

I always thought it was a safety issue normally given as the excuse (You can't see the gun is empty/safe as easily as you can with an O/U or SbS - imho you shouldn't be pointing ANY type of firearm at another person whether loaded or not )

 

I suppose it's fair enough if you don't know the people who you're shooting with or they're muppets but personally i'd not go game shooting with either

 

Mark

[Catamong]

go out and experience a game day and a bit of tradition and you may just realise why people don't think semis have a place in game shooting

 

Al4x,

 

Steady on Matey, you can't expect Essex man to worry about tradition.

 

Cat.

[guest1957]

Horses for courses. Ultimately the aim is to get invited back next year, so have a word with the host...

[Scully]

I am a member of two game bird syndicates al4x,the tradition derives from the days when only landed gentry had the means to shoot game,and the double shotgun was the 'sporting ' weapon of those people.Pumps and semi's were(and to some extent still are)considered uncouth,not the sort of gun a gentleman would use.

The safety aspect doesn't hold water either,thousands of both pumps and semi's are used regularly on a daily basis,but the general population remains stable.

Over and unders were frowned upon when they first appeared on game shoots,for no other reason than pure snobbery.Top hats and frock coats were traditional apparel also,but trends abd fashions change.I shoot an o/u for all my game shooting,but I wouldn't mind if someone turned up with a semi.

[Vermincinerator]

its illegal if the magazine holds more than 2 cartridges but otherwise legal,

 

I understand that is not the done thing, and if the mag capacity was more then 3 it would become a Section.1 firearm but where and in what legislation does it say you cant shoot game birds with a semi auto.

 

Ian.

[ajb403]

I understand that is not the done thing, and if the mag capacity was more then 3 it would become a Section.1 firearm but where and in what legislation does it say you cant shoot game birds with a semi auto.

 

Ian.

 

It is not illegal to shoot game with a section 2 semi auto, but it is illegal to shoot them with a section 1 semi auto - Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981.

 

Taken from a BASC release ( http://www.basc.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/...44F1CBD1CDA6B00 ):

 

"The relevant legislation is the 1981 Wildlife and Countryside Act (referred to as WCA) for

England, Wales and Scotland and the Wildlife (Northern Ireland) Order 1985 (referred to as

WO). They are broadly similar and both govern what species we can shoot. Birds and

mammals are treated separately within both Acts so we will look at birds first.

Bird species and semi-automatic weapons

Both Acts “prohibits the killing or taking of wild birds by any automatic or semiautomatic

weapon” (WCA Part 1, section 5, (1), c, iii and WO Part II, section 6, (1), c,

iii).

The Acts define automatic or semi-automatic weapons as follows: (WCA Part 1, section 27

and WO Part II, section 3) “automatic weapon” and “semi-automatic weapon” do not

include any weapon the magazine of which is incapable of holding more than two rounds.

Therefore these Acts prohibit the killing of any wild bird with a semi-automatic weapon with

a magazine capacity greater than 2 rounds."

 

Cheers

Ashley

[al4x]

I am a member of two game bird syndicates al4x,the tradition derives from the days when only landed gentry had the means to shoot game,and the double shotgun was the 'sporting ' weapon of those people.Pumps and semi's were(and to some extent still are)considered uncouth,not the sort of gun a gentleman would use.

The safety aspect doesn't hold water either,thousands of both pumps and semi's are used regularly on a daily basis,but the general population remains stable.

Over and unders were frowned upon when they first appeared on game shoots,for no other reason than pure snobbery.Top hats and frock coats were traditional apparel also,but trends abd fashions change.I shoot an o/u for all my game shooting,but I wouldn't mind if someone turned up with a semi.

 

 

its the same as a gun turning up in camo head to toe it just isn't done on any decent syndicate or traditional shoot. Yes the muppets that go out and shoot pheasants like their vermin may do so but they do miss the entire point, a bit like shooting them on the ground you can do it but its more than a little frowned upon. It just wouldn't be the same if guns didn't put a little effort into their appearance for the day as it usually has a certain something pretty special about a nice day out on a driven shoot and that is no matter how large or small gentry or ***** much the same.

Call it snobbish call it whatever but i'm pretty glad that the shoots I go on I can't see it ever being acceptable and that includes if it was one I was running. However cock days at the end of season you do see them occasionally but that can be different often its the beaters only gun and the aim isn't to produce good sporting birds but more to reduce the population of cock birds left.

Hell even if you look at the essex boys on here on driven days even they make the effort and turn up looking like the Gentry

[Devon Fox]

its the same as a gun turning up in camo head to toe it just isn't done on any decent syndicate or traditional shoot. Yes the muppets that go out and shoot pheasants like their vermin may do so but they do miss the entire point, a bit like shooting them on the ground you can do it but its more than a little frowned upon. It just wouldn't be the same if guns didn't put a little effort into their appearance for the day as it usually has a certain something pretty special about a nice day out on a driven shoot and that is no matter how large or small gentry or ***** much the same.

Call it snobbish call it whatever but i'm pretty glad that the shoots I go on I can't see it ever being acceptable and that includes if it was one I was running. However cock days at the end of season you do see them occasionally but that can be different often its the beaters only gun and the aim isn't to produce good sporting birds but more to reduce the population of cock birds left.

Hell even if you look at the essex boys on here on driven days even they make the effort and turn up looking like the Gentry

 

Fully agree.

 

There are no gentry on our shoot - how ever we all make the effort to wear traditional clothing, breeks etc - its all part of the day and it does make it more special.

 

I wouldnt want to see a semi or pump, yet i love semi autos and use them for everything else, its not a snob thing, i just like a more traditional approach to the day.

[Grandalf]

Game shooters do not tell pigeon shooters, clay shooters or wildfowlers how to go about their sport. Why is there so much uninformed comment from them about game shooters? Is it jealously or ignorance? It is an old sport and has old traditions. I have never hunted a fox from the back of a horse but I still marched in support of their sport - most of us old shooters did - several times. I don't think 'sporting pink' is my colour, but if that's what you have to wear to chase a fox on a horse then so-be-it.

As has already been stated, you can see if a s/s or o/u is broken and empty - it's not so easy with an auto.

Luckily I have a foot in all these camps and wear the clothing and arm myself according to the day. That way each day out in the field, wood or marsh is different and very special.

[garyb]

How many of you play golf in jeans or swim shorts?

 

It's about standards.

 

No semi auto's are allowed on any of the shoots I frequent, and rightly so.

[Scully]

its the same as a gun turning up in camo head to toe it just isn't done on any decent syndicate or traditional shoot. Yes the muppets that go out and shoot pheasants like their vermin may do so but they do miss the entire point, a bit like shooting them on the ground you can do it but its more than a little frowned upon. It just wouldn't be the same if guns didn't put a little effort into their appearance for the day as it usually has a certain something pretty special about a nice day out on a driven shoot and that is no matter how large or small gentry or ***** much the same.

Call it snobbish call it whatever but i'm pretty glad that the shoots I go on I can't see it ever being acceptable and that includes if it was one I was running. However cock days at the end of season you do see them occasionally but that can be different often its the beaters only gun and the aim isn't to produce good sporting birds but more to reduce the population of cock birds left.

Hell even if you look at the essex boys on here on driven days even they make the effort and turn up looking like the Gentry

 

 

I didn't say I was against tradition....you're talking dress code here(unwritten)and I quite agree.I love my game shooting and all it entails;plus fours and twos,tweed jackets and caps,garters in socks(though I don't go that far)shirts and ties,good manners and waxed jackets,I love it.

What I object to is that upper-class snobbery that gets us nowhere(and in fact is one of the things that the misguided public holds against us).It's the person that matters to me,I don't care if he/she is using a double ejector or an auto.

On one shoot where I beat all the guns are wealthy local men,but some of them regard us as a bit beneath them....not one of them turns up to beat for us on beaters day....we have to walk and stand.That's the sort of attitude I dislike....yet I know for a fact one or two have complained because some of the lads have turned up with semi-autos on beaters day,simply because those are the only gun they happen to own.

[rangey]

I didn't say I was against tradition....you're talking dress code here(unwritten)and I quite agree.I love my game shooting and all it entails;plus fours and twos,tweed jackets and caps,garters in socks(though I don't go that far)shirts and ties,good manners and waxed jackets,I love it.

What I object to is that upper-class snobbery that gets us nowhere(and in fact is one of the things that the misguided public holds against us).It's the person that matters to me,I don't care if he/she is using a double ejector or an auto.

On one shoot where I beat all the guns are wealthy local men,but some of them regard us as a bit beneath them....not one of them turns up to beat for us on beaters day....we have to walk and stand.That's the sort of attitude I dislike....yet I know for a fact one or two have complained because some of the lads have turned up with semi-autos on beaters day,simply because those are the only gun they happen to own.

its about time that game shooting moved out of the dark ages,most of us buy autos out of choice,not because its a cheap alternative to a s/s or o/u,its because we shoot better with them and prefer them.surely its about killing birds cleanly not just using a gun that fits with the tradition that you cant hit a barn door with.people need to get of the bandwagon and stop coming out with this rubbish about autos not being safe,imo auto users are far safer than the norm.time to stop the snobbery and think of the sport not how you look..Mmm..think i must be a fan of autos....

[ollie]

It always annoys me when this type of thread comes up. We run our own syndicate between ourselves and we all use semi-autos, we are perfectly safe, we have the same banter as a posh estate and we show the same respect for our quarry (which means we only shoot sporting birds and don't take anymore than we need). Everyone who is ranting on about tradition think about this; how many people on an average day would use an O/U? This isn't the traditional way, surely the traditional way would be to use a S/S.

 

I have never actually been a gun at a formal shoot; but it is something I do intend doing in the next few years and luckily enough I have an o/u to use on the formal day. Not everyone owns both an O/U and a Semi-Auto.

[Vermincinerator]

It is not illegal to shoot game with a section 2 semi auto, but it is illegal to shoot them with a section 1 semi auto - Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981.

 

Taken from a BASC release ( http://www.basc.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/...44F1CBD1CDA6B00 ):

 

"The relevant legislation is the 1981 Wildlife and Countryside Act (referred to as WCA) for

England, Wales and Scotland and the Wildlife (Northern Ireland) Order 1985 (referred to as

WO). They are broadly similar and both govern what species we can shoot. Birds and

mammals are treated separately within both Acts so we will look at birds first.

Bird species and semi-automatic weapons

Both Acts “prohibits the killing or taking of wild birds by any automatic or semiautomatic

weapon” (WCA Part 1, section 5, (1), c, iii and WO Part II, section 6, (1), c,

iii).

The Acts define automatic or semi-automatic weapons as follows: (WCA Part 1, section 27

and WO Part II, section 3) “automatic weapon” and “semi-automatic weapon” do not

include any weapon the magazine of which is incapable of holding more than two rounds.

Therefore these Acts prohibit the killing of any wild bird with a semi-automatic weapon with

a magazine capacity greater than 2 rounds."

 

Cheers

Ashley

 

Thanks Ashley, spot on

 

Ian.

[tweedledee]

i often wonder what all the semi haters on here would think if they had a shoulder injury which would prevent them from using a s/s or o/u and had to use a semi for less recoil. even any other kind of medical problem for that matter.would they give up shooting as a result? i think not.no one should dictate the type of gun which should be used.after all none of us know what lies round the corner and i`m sure all would gladfully use a semi if it was the difference between shooting and not.

[Albertan_J]

I think the simple answer is if you want to bang away with your semi find a shoot that will let you but don't twist on when you get turned away from a formal shoot when you've not bothered to ask if there is a dress code and semis allowed before turning up.

[Jock B]

On 22/10/2010 at 00:04, tweedledee said:

i often wonder what all the semi haters on here would think if they had a shoulder injury which would prevent them from using a s/s or o/u and had to use a semi for less recoil. even any other kind of medical problem for that matter.would they give up shooting as a result? i think not.no one should dictate the type of gun which should be used.after all none of us know what lies round the corner and i`m sure all would gladfully use a semi if it was the difference between shooting and not.

Your spot on there....I have exactly that issue after smashing up both my clavicle and humerus and having pins and plates in both. I shoot a semi auto due to the reduced recoil as otherwise shooting is too painful. I have been on a game shoot and told that I couldn’t use my semi auto as they are not allowed on the shoot! My immediate reply was:  “So you are discriminating against me because I am disabled and are not allowing me to shoot! Is that correct sir?” The decision was reconsidered and I was allowed to shoot. During the shoot many people asked to see the gun and nobody had any real issues after the initial explanation. It just goes to show that it’s narrow mindedness and ignorance that causes this frowned upon culture. Game shooting should maintain its traditions but must also move with the times too similarly to the transition from side by side to over and under and the move from paper cartridges to plastic!