Firearms Control Committee

[jonno]

Firearms Control

21 October 2010

Tuesday 26 October 2010 at 11.00 a.m.

 

This is the second evidence session of the Committee’s inquiry into Firearms Control. The aim of the session is to explore evidence on the use of legal firearms in crime and proposals to enhance the system for the licensing of firearms.

 

Witnesses:

At approximately 11.00 am

Professor Peter Squires, University of Brighton

 

At approximately 11.50 am

John Batley, Gun Trade Association

Graham Downing, Countryside Alliance

Mike Eveleigh, British Association of Shooting and Conservation

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I see Prof Peter Squires has been asked for his opinion at the inquiry as an 'expert'. His latest recommendation is that no ammunition is stored at home as that would prevent tragedies like Cumbria re-occurring. In my case, I shoot for vermin control over my own land at home only.

 

I wonder how he proposes this would work. I cannot see the ever more hard pressed local Police station being keen to administer and hold ammunition for all their local shooters needing to book stock in and out at all times from before dawn until after dusk so that leaves it in the hands of shooting clubs. The officials at these clubs may also not be keen on being on-call 24 hours per day. In my case if I see an urgent need to control vermin, I would have to drive somewhere to collect the ammunition, drive home, use it, drive back to the store and drive home again. At one point, this would result in me being at home, with the gun and ammunition so why does that make me safer than now? If I had a mental problem it would have to be bad enough to stop me driving to prevent a tragedy. Would a club official have to be trained and made responsible for assessing the mental health of all their members? In today's society could they be sued if the make a mistake? On a practical note, what would the situation be if my car refused to start when I should be returning the ammunition - would I be automatically guilty of an offence that might carry a five year prison sentence?

 

I hope that the BASC can inject some common sense into a very difficult topic and I hope the Committee will consider the facts and practicalities.

[JR1960]

Sadly phrases like 'Government Committee' and 'Common sense' don't ever seem to go together.

[MC]

I wonder how you get to become a Professor when you really are that dumb,

 

How would keeping your ammo at a club or RFD help? Surely if you were the same way inclined as Bird in Cumbria you would go and get your ammo and then go on a rampage.

 

Events like in Cumbria cannot be totally avoided, yes you could ban all guns but that won't stop scum like Moat getting hold of what he wants. All banning guns will do is ruin legitimate users sport.

[webber]

50 minutes given over to one man?

http://www.brighton.ac.uk/sass/contact/details.php?uid=pas1

 

Hm.

webber

[Piebob]

I wonder how you get to become a Professor when you really are that dumb,

 

You don't need to have any common sense to be a brilliant academic or a professor. In fact, I've met some positively worrying academics in my life - no social skills, no common sense, no practical sense, no understanding of "normal" lives, the list goes on. I'm not saying that's the case here, but they exist in large numbers.

[jonno]

50 minutes given over to one man?

http://www.brighton.ac.uk/sass/contact/details.php?uid=pas1

 

Hm.

webber

Sorry, I did a bit of editing but didn't mark it as I meant to. He gets 30 minutes. The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) get 20 mins after him. Full agenda here -

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committe...rearms-control/

[al4x]

I wonder how you get to become a Professor when you really are that dumb,

 

How would keeping your ammo at a club or RFD help? Surely if you were the same way inclined as Bird in Cumbria you would go and get your ammo and then go on a rampage.

 

Events like in Cumbria cannot be totally avoided, yes you could ban all guns but that won't stop scum like Moat getting hold of what he wants. All banning guns will do is ruin legitimate users sport.

 

 

Under the circumstances its probably better we have someone who clearly is talking rubbish than one who talks sense. That way its pretty easy for the BASC and CA to pick holes in his suggestions. The obvious one is as ever who would know you had used the ammo you said you had used and that you weren't hoarding it to go on the rampage so to speak.

[MC]

Under the circumstances its probably better we have someone who clearly is talking rubbish than one who talks sense. That way its pretty easy for the BASC and CA to pick holes in his suggestions. The obvious one is as ever who would know you had used the ammo you said you had used and that you weren't hoarding it to go on the rampage so to speak.

 

 

That is actually the easiest one to deal with and is done on most Target rifle competitions, you take 50 rounds out. You use 10 and bring back 40 rounds and 10 cases. There are questions asked if you cannot account for those cases.

 

In TR you will be issued the correct ammount of ammunition for the course of fire, you then return the fired cases and any converted sighters.

[sitsinhedges]

That is actually the easiest one to deal with and is done on most Target rifle competitions, you take 50 rounds out. You use 10 and bring back 40 rounds and 10 cases. There are questions asked if you cannot account for those cases.

 

In TR you will be issued the correct ammount of ammunition for the course of fire, you then return the fired cases and any converted sighters.

 

The whole thing is stupid and treats shooters like malevolent children.

 

If someone wants to kill someone I am sure they will have plenty of avenues to get illegal guns or ammo, or just a great big lorry.

 

Next time I go out shooting with my auto I better take a hedge slasher to retrieve the spent cases from the brambles so I can account for them and an armed officer just in case I decide to go on a killing spree.

 

Just more pointless legislation that will achieve nothing apart from making my chosen sport less enjoyable.

[Vermincinerator]

How can Prof. Squires be an expert he is not a shooter so he has no idea of the logistics behind this absurd idea.

Maybe someone could point out the same thinking pertaining to knives, they will not be allowed to be kept at home so everytime you want to have a meal you will have to go to the police station and sign out the amount needed for your family to consume their meal and then return them when finished.

If you return less then you booked out you will be arrested and your house searched, if you return more then you signed out you will also be arrested and interogated untill you tell where you got the extra knife.

Butchers, cooks, restaurateurs, and any others who use knives as tools of their trade will have to book then out in the morning and return them in the evening before being allowed to go home.

Of couse doctors and surgeons will be exempt from these rules because they are upstanding and trusted members of society

 

On a serious note if such a reccommendation were to be adopted it would be the end of shooting in this country for ordinary joe bloggs, only our priveleged gods of shooting, olympic hopefulls being allowed to carry on .

 

Ian.

[the running man]

I've said b4 on a previous post about squires knowing nothing,what the hell qualifies the guy to even be commenting on any aspect of kegal shooting,he's a criminologist for gods sake. So squires if ure reading this,I challenge you publicly to a debate,let's see you talk to real people, who actully know what there on about.

[snozzer]

That is actually the easiest one to deal with and is done on most Target rifle competitions, you take 50 rounds out. You use 10 and bring back 40 rounds and 10 cases. There are questions asked if you cannot account for those cases.

 

In TR you will be issued the correct ammount of ammunition for the course of fire, you then return the fired cases and any converted sighters.

 

Easy in a nice clean gun range, but try it at 2am on a cold wet February morning when your .22 semi has ejected them down a rabbit hole, into a pond/puddle or simply somewhere inside the ventilation system of your car (imagine shooting from passenger window and spent cases roll down windscreen vent.

 

So, again no use.

[David BASC]

I am glad Graham is giving evidence, I am pretty sure he does not work for the CA as such, but he has certainly worked with them for ages on the press side in the past for sure.

 

He has a great knowledge of shooting, and an excellent speaker.

 

Mike, as many of you know, is an ex copper, FLO and has worked for BASC for about 10 years or so, he was the chap that held a live interview with Jeremy Paxman on the day of the murders...rather him than me!

 

John Batley as you may know is an ex member of BASC council and long time pigeon shooter, and very much up to speed on current legislation, especially in regard to the trade - a good man.

 

Prof Squires is, from what I can see, very anti gun, but lets face it, the committee has to take views from all sides of the debate – but lets not forget the balance of the evidence has been very much pro shooting thus far.

 

David

[HDAV]

David will any of the "evidence" be publicly available? Transcripts? Video etc?

[wymberley]

David, Didn't GD also work for BASC?

Cheers

[David BASC]

I suspect, like last time, the evidence session will be televised / viewable through the web, and transcrips available after.

 

Yes GD did work for BASC in the past, and most recently he wrote the BASC Centenary book for us. He writes for the shotoing press and has had books published on stalking and I think wildfowling

 

He's a good man to have on your team.

 

David

[Floating Chamber]

'.... what a crazy world we're living in....'

 

(Joe Brown and the Bruvvers.)

[HDAV]

I suspect, like last time, the evidence session will be televised / viewable through the web, and transcrips available after.

Any idea where or when it will be available?

[Canis]

I'm a little bit amused that an accademic from brighton euphimursity has been selected as the "expert" for the anti's. Do we have any background knowledge of why he was selected as an expert? surely it cant be just because he's a criminologist-

 

 

by the sound of it we have some very knowledgeable people fighting our corner - heres hoping they can make his evidence look like the rantings of a moron.

[David BASC]

I am trying to find out, sorry for the delay but i am on holiday for a few days so I am not in my office... but keep an eye on the BBC Parliament pages on the BBC web

 

David

Edited October 26, 2010 by David BASC

[David BASC]

Here it is, the firearms bit starts 24min and 24 sec in

 

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=6805

 

David

[Cannon]

Most gun crime is carried out using licenced weapons?

[HDAV]

Here it is, the firearms bit starts 24min and 24 sec in

 

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=6805

 

David

Thanks David will watch it later

[stokie]

I think that Squires seemed to tie himself in knots and waffle a lot about nothing to do with the inquiry. The panel seemed determined to pull his case apart. Which can only be good news for us

Edited October 26, 2010 by stokie

[HDAV]

I think that Squires seemed to tie himself in knots and waffle a lot about nothing to do with the inquiry. The panel seemed determined to pull his case apart. Which can only be good news for us

He seemed to have no idea about the differentiation between legal and illegal firearms, and his major statistic argument was from 92-94 and related to handguns from the Cullen report. I do agree the whole system needs an overhaul but i don't think Professor Squires has considered the implications of his proposals I do love the idea of "horizon scanning" though. Seems More bothered by reactivated deacts, replicas and Air guns)

 

Nicola Blackberry? Did she mean Raoul Moat? When referring to medical assessment Prior to granting licences?

 

Interesting that the Litts SAGA was mentioned.....The Shooting experts did a brilliant JOb, I think Mr Vaz maybe wants to have a go. The big thing that came out of it for me was how little must be known and understood by the general public. We all need to educate the public, if we all just took 2 or 3 none shooters and showed them how it works in reality they would be far better educated on what actually happens.