al4x Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Its a tricky one as MM says lots are insured anyway through different policies, I like many others shot for a good few years without any much as most people I knew did. Mostly pigeon shooting and clays so what I would consider low risk activities, insurance is an after thought safety wise it doesn't help you to be safe or avoid accidents it covers your backside afterwards. As for seeing it being made mandatory well I'd agree with that about as much as compulsory BASC membership Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I agree, insurance is a very good idea but as has been said over and over, if you make it compulsary prices would rise and young shooters would be put off an already pricey past time - I know it would have put me off when I first started shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Adam Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Having said this, its becoming strongly advised by all now. The firearms officer suggested/told me to get it, the land I shoot on told me I had to get it. To be honest, an extra £60 a year isnt going to make the biggest world of difference to whether someone can afford to shoot or not. Regards Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I consider every shooter should be insured, and I have to have it to cover my business activities, so it is Mandatory for me. My problem is I hate anything mandatory out of principle, so my answer to the poll is NO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Having said this, its becoming strongly advised by all now. The firearms officer suggested/told me to get it, the land I shoot on told me I had to get it. To be honest, an extra £60 a year isnt going to make the biggest world of difference to whether someone can afford to shoot or not. Regards Adam the insurance part of it isn't much over a tenner, its just the shooting orgs use it as a big part of why you should join. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) I can't see either creating a barrier to those who are genuinely wanting to take up the sport. Not many hobbies/sports are cheap when starting out, what with equipment/membership costs etc. but licencing/insurance would certainly go some way to sorting those who are genuinely interested from the ones who just want to own a gun. Or those who can afford it and those who can't? If shooting go goes from being a fairly mainstream inclusive pastime, to being the preserve of a tiny exclusive minority i.e. those who can afford spiralling costs and are prepared to jump thorough ever more hoops, then it's dead. That way is guaranteed to slash the number of people, especially youngsters who enter the sport. The less of us there are, the harder it is for Joe Public to identify with us and easier for politicians to have a pop. By that stage the public won't care less because it's become such an elitist minority sport that hardly anyone will know a shooter, so no loss to anyone if it's banned completely. As I said, I am insured and always will be, I am financially comfortable and able to indulge my hobbies, but I haven't always been. When I started shooting, I certainly wasn't and had to scrimp and save just to buy pellets. The HAC have proposed FAC costs to rise dramatically - some (you?) think air rifles should be on an FAC. How many youngsters would start shooting if they had to wait 4-6 months for a £100(?) licence, buy a £100 cabinet and £50 insurance so they can buy a 50 quid Chinese rifle to shoot cans in their back garden? Shooting cans in the back garden is what started 1000s of shooters along the path to a lifetime enjoyment of shooting. You seem to be suggesting that they should be weeded out before they even start? Edited January 14, 2011 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I voted no because it could never be enforced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I voted no because it could never be enforced. That wasn't the question though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 That wasn't the question though. Ok,yes theoretically it should be,but it could still never be enforced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kighill Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Some years ago (14/15) I was fortunate to have some spare cash so became a lifelong member of the CPSA and have been insured since. This was well worth the cost and I am now 'in profit' with no further fees to pay. So if you are young and are fortunate enough to have the spare cash, spend it wisely GET SHOOTING INSURANCE, for life if affordable. However I do have a question. Some shoots insist on the guns being a member of BASC. I am not sure if this is for the insurance or to support BASC. Does anyone have any experience of this? I had planned on taking the lifelong cover with BASC but unfortunately it was rather expensive compared to the CPSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I know a lot of people are complaining about the fact that the insurance would put off people, but you can get insured for a tenner... How much does a fishing licence cost? That's mandatory and I don't see it putting people off going. It goes back into the waterways etc and positively helps. I never hear anyone complaining about those. I remember having my cheapo fishing rod and still going down to the post office to get my licence. I used to be really proud when I got it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Or those who can afford it and those who can't? If shooting go goes from being a fairly mainstream inclusive pastime, to being the preserve of a tiny exclusive minority i.e. those who can afford spiralling costs and are prepared to jump thorough ever more hoops, then it's dead. That way is guaranteed to slash the number of people, especially youngsters who enter the sport. The less of us there are, the harder it is for Joe Public to identify with us and easier for politicians to have a pop. By that stage the public won't care less because it's become such an elitist minority sport that hardly anyone will know a shooter, so no loss to anyone if it's banned completely. As I said, I am insured and always will be, I am financially comfortable and able to indulge my hobbies, but I haven't always been. When I started shooting, I certainly wasn't and had to scrimp and save just to buy pellets. The HAC have proposed FAC costs to rise dramatically - some (you?) think air rifles should be on an FAC. How many youngsters would start shooting if they had to wait 4-6 months for a £100(?) licence, buy a £100 cabinet and £50 insurance so they can buy a 50 quid Chinese rifle to shoot cans in their back garden? Shooting cans in the back garden is what started 1000s of shooters along the path to a lifetime enjoyment of shooting. You seem to be suggesting that they should be weeded out before they even start? Blunderbuss I think that you will already find that shooting is already classed as an elitist minority sport. thats why the lefties at the BBC never show any Olyimpic or Commonwealth shooting events apart from 10 second reports if a shooter has won a gold. While i dont think shooting is elitist sport it is certainly a minority one and as you correctly point out, increasing participation is the key to continuation of our sport. The days of being able to just go out alone plinking with an air rifle as a kid are sadly long gone, - hey the kid isnt even allowed to own the rifle! Just as in the same way as if you have a kid in a car without a special car seat you are branded a child abuser today when 30 years ago an under 8's five a side football team would only require one car and not a seatbelt betweeen them ! So far most of the curbs on gun ownership have been knee-jerk reactions to media frenzy after gun holders running amok after a mental aberation. Thankfully shooting accidents are rare but accidents do happen and an uninsured shooter will cause financial misery to compound the physical dammage done. A few months ago my local paper devoted the entire front page to the mother of a 19 year old who was injured while working on a building site. Her boy had been working as a self employed sub contractor for tax purposes and hadn't purchased any insurance for his company. His injuries left the poor chap with injuries such that he will no longer be able to work and would need nursing for the rest of his life. The mother was trying to kick up a stink that the company who employed yer sun as a subcontractor. While legally they had no case to stand on this caused a fair bit of local media interest. Now just think he had been a beater or an unconnected rambler who had picked up those injuries care of an uninsured shot, the gun angle would it would make national news and a media furore would ensue Either which way, the best way to ensure that insurance doesn't become a mandatory requirement is for us to have it anyway ! Besides The BASC (and most of the nonconformist insurance providers to a lesser degree) are not businesses there to make a profit, they are working to protect our shooting rights! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I know a lot of people are complaining about the fact that the insurance would put off people, but you can get insured for a tenner... How much does a fishing licence cost? That's mandatory and I don't see it putting people off going. It goes back into the waterways etc and positively helps. I never hear anyone complaining about those. I remember having my cheapo fishing rod and still going down to the post office to get my licence. I used to be really proud when I got it lol-i remember getting my rod,river and pit licences from local tackle shop when i was a kid! I think the whole lot used to cost me something silly like £5 which was fantastic value back then for a whole years worth of fishing in various places. I know we like to think of ourselves as responsible adults,but it isnt always the case.Some people still never bother getting rod licences despite having hundreds of pounds worth of gear then complain when they get caught (i have a friend who's a water baliff).Whether the outlay puts them off or they dont want to 'conform' i dont know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I know a lot of people are complaining about the fact that the insurance would put off people, but you can get insured for a tenner... How much does a fishing licence cost? That's mandatory and I don't see it putting people off going. It goes back into the waterways etc and positively helps. I never hear anyone complaining about those. I remember having my cheapo fishing rod and still going down to the post office to get my licence. I used to be really proud when I got it I don't follow the logic in this....what has a fishing LICENCE got to do with shooting INSURANCE?I have a driving licence but it doesn't mean I'm insured.Fishing insurance would be another levy additional to a licence wouldn't it? I don't know what to make of this topic.On one hand I don't fancy shooting with someone who is uninsured,but on the other hand,if shooting insurance was mandatory then wouldn't insurers demand we underwent some sort of firearms competency test beforehand?And then that becomes mandatory,or compulsory(is that the same thing?)So we have SGC's and FAC's to pay for,then we have a compulsory competency test to go through,for a fee no doubt(one of the shooting org's would no doubt be happy to oversee these)and then we have to pay for insurance.If all this happens,coupled with rising lead prices,or the banning of lead,making non-toxic shot compulsory(I can afford steel but not Bismuth)then shooting will eventually revert to what it was originally....a wealthy mans 'sport'. I can see both sides of the argument,but can't decide which side I would vote for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 i think you should only have insurence if you want it,a lot cant afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I know a lot of people are complaining about the fact that the insurance would put off people, but you can get insured for a tenner... How much does a fishing licence cost? That's mandatory and I don't see it putting people off going. It goes back into the waterways etc and positively helps. I never hear anyone complaining about those. I remember having my cheapo fishing rod and still going down to the post office to get my licence. I used to be really proud when I got it But firearms are already licensed and i don't remember rod licences including any form of insurance! I think a "hunting licence" bought from PO could be a way to control airguns etc however does this apply to people who target shoot? Clay shoot? I would support a hunting licence, at a reasonable fee and perhaps showing proof of insurance and a photo ID is a way to police it so that peopel previously convicted etc can be stopped and punished (poachers, those shooting unlawfully, etc) but you might as well make it mandatory to have insurance to walk down the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Allot can’t afford it? Come of it! You can get cover for about £20 for basic insurance up to say £66 for the full BASC package, and in a few weeks you will be able ot pay that on monthly installments - there is no excuse based on cost! So what happens when or rather if an uninsured shooter damages your property and because they are not insured YOU have to pay out of your pocket? Will you have such a relaxed attitude towards the chap who says to you ' sorry for causing the damage but you will have to pay to get it repaired because I can’t afford the insurance' If it’s a few hundred you may not be bothered, if is a few grand you may sit up and take notice! The same bloke probably spends hundreds of pounds a year on beer, fags, Sky Sports subscriptions, magazines and so on.... No it should not be made compulsory by law but it should be a simper fact that if you go shooting you should be insured, the excuse that it’s too expensive is total rubbish. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonD Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 So far as I see it if you are responsible you will make sure you are insured as part of the other fundamental requirements, gun, PPE etc. As has been pointed out you can get insurance for the cost of a couple of cartridges a week or a single factory CF round from the cheaper suppliers. As for it being mandatory i don't think so, the only way they could enforce it would be to attach it as an additional payment when applying for SGC\FAC for the duration of issue. I can't honestly think of anyone I shoot with who doesn't have insurance. I have BASC & CPSA so have the knowledge that i'm covered if anything happened. Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Allot can’t afford it? Come of it! You can get cover for about £20 for basic insurance up to say £66 for the full BASC package, and in a few weeks you will be able ot pay that on monthly installments - there is no excuse based on cost! talking of which its very nice its not going up again this year David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 There must be a gazillion threads on here with newcomers to the sport asking about the best place to get insurance. Every time it ends up with everyone telling them it doesn't really matter where you get it as long as you get it somewhere. That's all well and good for the people who frequent forums and ask the question, but what of the thousands who don't? There are probably thousands of uninsured shooters out there who have never even thought about getting covered. Why? They think it's expensive?. It's not. They're only 'occasional' shooters?. Accidents happen at any time. It's 'only' an airgun? It can still cause serious injury/death. And so it goes on. There are plenty of reasons irresponsible people will find NOT to have insurance, and I think we all agree that it IS irresponsible? So as responsible shooters surely we shouldn't mind a clamp down on the irresponsible? And if they won't do it for themselves it only leaves one option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Not really what you will find is a lot of shooting its self policing, most small syndicates now require proof of insurance. Larger formal shoots will carry insurance as should anybody you pay to guide you. Add to that people with house insurance that covers them for third party accidents you may be surprised how few people have it. As far as having it for clay shooting well that worries me less than any other form of shooting, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 As far as having it for clay shooting well that worries me less than any other form of shooting, I would go along with that, provided the ground is properly laid out. I wouldn't go driven or rough shooting with anyone I suspected of not having insurance, Christ even beating can get a bit hairy with some guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 This is the sort of thing I think certificates/insurance can help to avoid. http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/150405-shooting-pal/ Says it all really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I would go along with that, provided the ground is properly laid out. I wouldn't go driven or rough shooting with anyone I suspected of not having insurance, Christ even beating can get a bit hairy with some guns in theory all syndicates you pay to shoot should carry their own insurance and then its probable the farm insurance would cover you but it is indeed a worry. I've a very good mate with a farm and at the moment till he takes over from his dad there is a syndicate on it. One of the key funders keeps inviting very young shooters who haven't done much of it and really its not on beaters shouldn't be worrying about getting shot. Fortunately as I'm in a position I can't get a ####ing I have educated a few but it shouldn't be needed. That said I've seen a 60 year old bloke pepper his next door gun while trying to shoot a fox and he had his own shoot so it can happen anywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I think it is very good when a driven shoot has young, inexperienced, guns in the line and should be commended. By far the unsafest guns I have witnessed have been generally a: farmers, and b: old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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