utectok Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Ok i have just come back from a gundog training workshop. I'm pleased to say me and pennny got on fine. I noticed two things though. Firstly the standard the dog was at was directly relatable to the composure character and calm of the trainer. And secondly I was amazed how often people smacked dragged about and hit their dogs and in a couple of cases their dogs were reluctant to return to the handler no wonder. I just use positive reinforcement and very occasionally an ear tug maybe I'm a woos though??? I dunno what do you guys do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 The only time I've used force was when she was a pup and she gota quick tap on the muzzel if she bit too hard. Mines a cocker and very easily offended and I find I get the best from her with positive actions and just a NO or growling NO is enough to let her know she's done wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted May 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Yea there were a few cockers there tonight being whacked in the nose repeatedly with a hat to stop it whining. And a couple being hurled around by the scruff. The returned the dummy crawling on their bellys it was quit strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyB Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 never Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcarlos Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 noooo dont need to the only time he gets told of is with a deep ayyaa sort of sound and thats enough he knows what he was doing is wrong dont need any hitting. lab+springer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul T Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Really? I never raise a hand to mine in the field like this. I was always told to praise the good and if something goes wrong, correct it, but if you can't correct it move quickly on and do something else. Surely you are wanting the dog to work through enjoyment, not beating it into submission. The only time mine gets a tap on the ***** (nothing hard) is just as a 'reminder' when he's wandering round the house (only allowed in on an evening) instead of just coming to sit with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 If he takes the urine and its obvious,hell yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) Depends on the dog, and it's attitude. Never ever cruel, but sufficient reinforcement is sometimes required. Punishment must meet the crime, I tend to slip the lead on and walk calmly home when it all goes to pot, for there is always tomorrow. Edited May 6, 2011 by garyb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 I would normally give it a good telling of and a quick slap on the muzzle. Thankfully I don't have to do it much, but it is only in extreme circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 I would have said never,ever to this a few years ago. If you dont with some dogs though you are in big trouble and it will only end up in the dog completely taking over or it's eventual disposal and likely death. Previous to owning my current dog (80lb male GWP) a harsh reprimand would be a shake of the scuff and a harsh no! quite seriously if you did that with him he would enjoy it and think it a fun fighting game, try that with your average springer bitch! What you have to do in my mind is get the measure of the dog your actually handling - other wise some dogs will just get the measure of you. Harsh punishment to the wrong temprement of dog or punishing a dog that just didn't understand anyway will only break trust and destroy confidence, being a total "no i wont ever do that" type means you might one day land yourself in trouble when you encounter that certain dog. Don't want to sound a cruel dog breaker type, or that i constantly beat my dog as i havent used phyical admonishment in months now he is comming out of his teenage rebelion period as it just is not justified or required now, indeed he is a very handy dog gentle and obediant on small game but hard as an angry lion with large game but in his individual case he had to know i wouldn't back down period end of story if it came to a phyical challenge to my authority. For example a friend ran in to recover his first Fox on the lamp when the wire haired crock was busy making sure it was dead, could have ended real nasty if i didn't read that situation and put a stop to the confrontation that was about to boil over or the dog had no respect for my ultimate authority. Reward is of primary importance though and this must also be measured to the individual dog, admonishment without reward is just plain crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Do I ever smack my dog? Yes, when, in my view as a fairly experienced trainer it is appropriate, but never, never as a result of a loss of temper. I also sometimes use my feet to make contact with the dog although I must stress that I do not "kick" it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 my ex was a amimal phycoligyst (spelling?) and she had many weird and wonderfull idears on this, and they where all never ever! and she had the best trained dogs ive ever seen! however i have 3 patterdales and you do need to give them a belt some times (rarely) because they will take the **** and get out of hand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 No, but i do sometimes smack my bitch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Yup, my own dogs get scruffed or scudded now and again, but my dogs are also from "hard" lines. They don't fall out with you if you raise your voice, that wouldn't suit my nature on a day to day basis. But I've also worked with dogs I wouldn't lay a finger on, and I would be very careful raising my voice to or they become fearful. kent put it very well IMO. Treat the dog to suit its nature, there are no hard and fast rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted May 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) Mmmm interesting comments if a dog is frightened of the owner ie cowering on delivery surely something is wrong? Shouldn't they be pleased to come to the handler?? Edited May 6, 2011 by utectok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 I don't have gundogs so I can't comment on those, but I have two dobermans. They wouldn't respond to a smack as they don't seem to feel pain or fear, so when I needed to show them who's boss I grabbed them by the scruff or the collar and pinned them to the ground until they go "soft" ( relax, submit ). As soon as they submit I let them up and praise them, it's worked well for me, they're good as gold. I don't see why this wouldn't work for other breeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted May 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Blimey don't fancy rolling on the ground with an angry Doberman !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertan_J Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 My terrier had to be reminded who was the pack leader in her teens not by hitting just pinned her down and growled and gave her a little bite after watching ceaser milan haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertan_J Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 you got there before me catweazle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 A doberman is just a big terrier, they respond to training well but need to be shown who is boss or you could end up with a heap of trouble. At the end of the day if you're not prepared to control it you shouldn't own it, same as any dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hy-flyer Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 I Agree with kent , I have worked dogs for a long time now and i am still learning, i have had Lurchers, Game Terriers ,and gundogs and some just a raised voice is all it takes others it takes a bit more, you have to read the dog, and find the right key to work him ,you have to let the dog know your the head of the pack but he has to respect you, ATB hy-flyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toka_shigazu Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Agree wit hyou Catweazle...that is what i used to do with our Akitas. Our remaining Akita is 11 now and havent needed to do this for years [so long i cant remember]...he's an old boy now but in his adolescence and early adult hood he needed reminding sometimes. Only recently has he started to show aggression to other dogs and i think that is something to do with the onset of dimentia - he is afraid of most things now relating to noise, binmen, children playing, wind, snow flakes floating in the air etc... that said the terrier i now have has been even more of a challenge, at least the Akita seemed to learn from his mistakes and alter his behaviour reasonably quickly. the terrier is always looking to dominate/get the upper hand and so always have to keep on top of him. he doesnt need a strong hand so to speak, just a firm one....knowing him too much force would result in a spoilt dog, not enough and he would not consider you boss and just do his own thing. i wouldnt change him as it is this tennacity i want in a hunting terrier. it is all about knowing your dogs and not acting in anger no matter how much you are wound up... atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrob Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 He would never speak to me again if I did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshLamb Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 yes when she needs it. Shes a ridgeback x GSD, so can occasionally be obnoxious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted May 7, 2011 Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Yup, my own dogs get scruffed or scudded now and again, but my dogs are also from "hard" lines. They don't fall out with you if you raise your voice, that wouldn't suit my nature on a day to day basis. But I've also worked with dogs I wouldn't lay a finger on, and I would be very careful raising my voice to or they become fearful. kent put it very well IMO. Treat the dog to suit its nature, there are no hard and fast rules. Yep! I had a GSD police dog that I had to wrestle to a ground pin virtually every day of his adolescent life. If I hadn't he would have been uncontrollable. My next GSD was totally different; I only had to lower my vocal tone and it was as if he'd been hit by a bolt of lightening. Both would take down a man and tackle a football crowd. There's nothing wrong with nipping their scruff or flicking a cord leash at them to get their attention but to actually hit or kick a strong-willed dog is asking for a fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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