pavman Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Our birds have arrived 1500 of them, out in pens in the woods and near one is a house which has 2 dogs which run wild at times as owners (solicitors) dont walk them they just kick them out and call them back. I have spoken to the owners about them chasing birds but what is the legal position if they got in a pen can i shoot them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 I know you can shoot dogs bothering livestock but i don't know if game birds come under that title As the owners are solicitors i would check, double check and triple check before pulling that trigger though!! Your shooting organisation is probably going to be your best bet. I also be tempted to tell your FLD and they might contact the dog owners themselves Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 simple answer Pav is I wouldn't but what I would do is submit them a bill each time it happens. Assuming you catch the dogs take them home with the bill and inform the police. If they don't pay small claims court will do the job being solicitors they will know they don't want to have it happening often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 I know of it happening before,(not by me) and there was no legal action bought i think. Personally id use the bill method mentioned abouve, or perhaps have a chat with BASC about the best legal option then go down tat route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobby63 Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Ive always understood that dog owners are responsable for their dogs actions so if they are left to run out of control then you should inform the local council and am sure their dog warden can take action ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 As the owners are solicitors i would check, double check and triple check before pulling that trigger though!! Big time !! I'd be inclined to give the dogs a nice dose of furniture / carpet fouler. Befreind them and make sure they dont go home until they've had a nice block of lard, rancid squid etc etc. I'm sure they'll think twice about letting them go free range once they sprayed their bowels over the soft furnishings once or twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Obviously were you to shoot them the issues only occur if they are found. Personally though I wouldn't want to shoot a dog particularly and would go down the getting really ****** off on their doorstep and dumping dead birds and a bill first. After that though I know a man with a JCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinF Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 I think the rules are that pheasants are classed as livestock when they are in the pen, but wild birds outside. However, I am not a lawyer, and you need to get some proper advice before you take any action. Who owns the woodland? Is there anything that the land owner can do to help you? Unfortunately, the damage being done is not limited to the birds being killed, the rest of the birds will soon disappear with that kind of disturbance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 I think the rules are that pheasants are classed as livestock when they are in the pen, but wild birds outside. However, I am not a lawyer, and you need to get some proper advice before you take any action. Who owns the woodland? Is there anything that the land owner can do to help you? Unfortunately, the damage being done is not limited to the birds being killed, the rest of the birds will soon disappear with that kind of disturbance I am positive you are right there Colin about pheasants being classed as wild birds outside the pen. Where you could take direct action if sheep were being killed, but pheasants in the same field are a different proposition in law. The previous advice to double double check on the law is sound. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 The act treats game birds differently to farm livestock and poultry. As far as game birds are concerned you can only shoot the dog if it is in the act of attacking and killing the birds not if it is just frightening them or in the the pen. By law if you shoot a dog you must notify the police within 48 hours. It is a criminal act to shoot a dog but the act gives livestock keepers and farmers a "get out of jail free card" a defence against prosecution if they can prove that the dog was attacking animals. Being solicitors your dog owners will know the law and it will be up to you to prove that the dogs (and their owners) left you no option but to shoot the dog/s. This article is useful reading....http://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/resources/articles/art_frbu_animal_law.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinF Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Useful document here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwie Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 this is a very grey area yes once out of the pen they are wild and while in a pen they are livestock but that pen has to be secure and if a dog can get in it isnt so im not sure you will be covered. ive had too many dealing along these line in my time it came to a head the one day when a dog walker who i had stoped rumerous time to tell him his dogs were on private land and are chasing my birds to get them under control. anyway they did it again i cought them around 1000 meters from any public right of way found the owner who was stood in the forestry car park and told him that i was going back to move some sheep to where they always went and that he would not see them again after this final warning if it happened again. from that day on they were always on a lead when they were in areas that i had told him held alot of game and we would then often stop and chat and was nice as pie. beeing nice and polite will work with the majority some tho just need telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Very difficuly situation. Electric fencing seems to me to be the only practical solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushpower Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 I have shot a few dogs in the past for killing poultry round the farm house,and once for sheep worrying and as charlieT said ,phone the police straight away they will come out and take details , i lined the carcases out to show the police Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 I have shot a few dogs in the past for killing poultry round the farm house,and once for sheep worrying and as charlieT said ,phone the police straight away they will come out and take details , i lined the carcases out to show the police You should change your name to Hush Puppy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggiegun Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Hi, You cannot shoot a dog with your rifle,as it is not lawful quarry on your ticket,so if you do shoot it and tell make sure its with a shotgun. This is a bit of an awkward one,be very careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted August 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Spoke with BASC and as always very helpful There is no automatic defence for shooting a dog harming game birds nor is there for sheep or cows unless you can justify the dog could not be stopped in any other way and the live stock could not get away (fenced in)game birds are not classed as livestock Whilst you are unlikely to be prosecuted if you can justify your actions protecting your livestock (sheep cows etc) the same may not be so for game birds when in a pen. The advice is to ensure a pen is dog/fox proof (common sense really) and if dogs are a problem on the farmers land (not public) take notes of events and report to police to take action as it may be an offence to have a dog out of control and you may have a claim for damage. The fact in this case the owners are solicitors would damage there reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Catch dog. Put dog in secure pen or kennel a long way away. Feed it and water it for a week - its not the dog's fault. After a week take it back to owner telling them that you have just saved their dog from a perfectly legal fox snare, many of which you have around the area. When did you find it they will ask. Just now you will reply. They will have been so worried over the course of the week then relieved that you returned it then worried again because it could have died in the horrible snare. Their emotions run riot and then they keep the dog in. It has worked for me on three occasions. If the old bill find you have kidnapped the dog it might get a bit difficult... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elby Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Catch dog. Put dog in secure pen or kennel a long way away. Feed it and water it for a week - its not the dog's fault. After a week take it back to owner telling them that you have just saved their dog from a perfectly legal fox snare, many of which you have around the area. When did you find it they will ask. Just now you will reply. They will have been so worried over the course of the week then relieved that you returned it then worried again because it could have died in the horrible snare. Their emotions run riot and then they keep the dog in. It has worked for me on three occasions. If the old bill find you have kidnapped the dog it might get a bit difficult... I was thinking along the same lines. I would knock their door first and tell them snares are set and rat poison is about too. Tell them you love dogs and would hate to see their dogs hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted August 6, 2011 Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 Catch dog. Put dog in secure pen or kennel a long way away. Feed it and water it for a week - its not the dog's fault. After a week take it back to owner telling them that you have just saved their dog from a perfectly legal fox snare, many of which you have around the area. When did you find it they will ask. Just now you will reply. They will have been so worried over the course of the week then relieved that you returned it then worried again because it could have died in the horrible snare. Their emotions run riot and then they keep the dog in. It has worked for me on three occasions. If the old bill find you have kidnapped the dog it might get a bit difficult... much shorter version man digs hole catch dog dog goes missing pheasants live happy ever after Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted August 6, 2011 Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 much shorter version man digs hole catch dog dog goes missing pheasants live happy ever after Aye, and then 'keepers wonder why they have such a bad rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted August 6, 2011 Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 As a shooting man who has always had dogs I would have to be really at my wits end before shooting a dog. The dog is just doing what dogs do. I shoot a bird, I cock up - its a runner, my dog chases it, catches it, and retrieves it to me - good dog! Their wandering dog is just doing the same - but on its own. The dog is not at fault - it is the owner who needs shooting but I think that is probably against the law... Several years ago I got one family to give their pampered pet away to a better home - one where it was trained, walked and kept in a secure garden. They had already paid me and the next door shoot several hundred pounds for killed poults. Last time I heard of Burlington Bertie (yes, that was its real name) it was a much changed and very happy character. They were trying to keep a spaniel fenced in with 18" of wire mesh and were out all day! It did half of Suffolk on a daily basis and loved pheasants and rearing pens. It new the inside of my landrover so well my dogs treated it as one of the pack. No - I don't think I could ever shoot the dog... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantellissheffield Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 under the dangerous dogs act weather in a public place or on private land if the dog even jumps up at you then it is classed as out of control. just tell the police it was barking and jumping up at you growling, your word againt the dog lol.... or just take the collar of if it has one and throw it, take it to a dog warden say it was wondering about they will soon get fed up of paying to get it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 You can only shoot a dog in the actual act of worrying livestock, even then you have to prove that you have tried alternative methods to stop it such as driving a 4x4 at it and shooting is a last resort. I would go down the invoice route personally. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvid wings Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 carry a spade , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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