topshunt Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Hi all, ok so i'm finally looking at getting my sgc. Use will be for clays, and pigeons on a permission i have for air rifle. Just have one query really about the application form with the question relating to convictions. I recieved a caution about 4 years ago now and want to know if i should put it down or not. I have already looked through older posts and generally everyone says should declare everything. The reason i ask as i was looking at BASC website and came across this. Question 14 For purposes of the Firearms Acts there is no such thing as a spent conviction. You must include all convictions, (Including ALL motoring offences, whether still recorded on your driving licence or otherwise) whether in Britain or abroad. Cautionsdo not need to be mentioned but conditional or absolute discharges do. If this is a renewal, then the form only asks you to declare convictions since your last. so what do i do? Have not got a problem putting it down, in fact i think i'd rather put it down to show i've nothing to hide. I'm sure it would come up anyway when they procces the application. So do i ignore BASC or go with gut instinct. OH and is a caution normally a no for sgc? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 yes. dont try and think otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpicide Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Disclose,if you accept a caution as I understand it is an admission of guilt (we don't have them in Scotland) so put it on the form it will not come back to haunt you. On the other hand if you don't disclose they will ask about it and you will be left looking a fraud. Join a shooting organisation BEFORE you apply that way you will have advice on tap I am a SACS member you make up your mind who you join but they won't help if you don't join. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiDriver Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think you know youve answered your own question, and in your heart/head you know it makes sense as they'll know anyways and your SGC says put down all convictions, its the Police who'll grant your SGC not BASC so I know who I'd side with. BASC may well be right and technically a caution doesn't need to be mentioned but that doesn't mean you need to give Plod any reason to doubt your application. As for a caution being an automatic NO, suppose that might depend on what it was for ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Best put it down. I doubt a caution 4 years ago will affect anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitty tree Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 hello fella. put it down dont take a chance because they do check. if you dont and they pick up on it say good by to sgc.ps imo. if you go on to police checks on your pc it will show you how long offences stay on file . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Best put it down. I doubt a caution 4 years ago will affect anything. Depends slightly on what the caution was for I should have thought. If it was anything involving temper,agressive behaviour or drink related there might be a problem. But they are going to know when they do the searches anyway so there is no point trying to conceal it. Not declaring it will only make things worse. Edited March 7, 2012 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Depends slightly on what the caution was for I should have thought. If it was anything involving temper,agressive behaviour or drink related there might be a problem. But they are going to know when they do the searches anyway so there is no point trying to conceal it. Not declaring it will only make things worse. What he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy220 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 I have had 2 cautions one when I was 14 and one at 20 I'm now 25. I put down these and my 3 speeding points the FO said when I RECIEVE my licence which I will in 2 weeks or so I will get a extra letter basically to cover their ***** in case I turn into a Derek Moat. He asked me a few extra questions and the wife when he realised I probably wasn't a nutter he said that's fine and said I old get my ticket. My advice be straight with them as its only a caution it's unlikely to be for armed robbery or kidnap so you should be fine. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 ... said when I RECIEVE my licence which I will in 2 weeks or so I will get a extra letter basically to cover their ***** in case I turn into a Derek Moat. Similar, I have a conviction for a assault from when I was in my 20's (20 years ago I lamped a bloke for feeling up the GF in a pub while stood next to me), anyway, I received a SGC along with a letter reminding me that it cold be revoked if I misbehaved, so if they'll give me a cert with that in my past then a caution really shouldn't be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 call BASC and check but it looks like you already have the answer, the question asks for convictions, a caution is not a conviction so no need to add it. When the FEO comes round then he may want to discuss it but you aren't hiding anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 They already know or can find out if you have any convictions or cautions. The important thing they're looking for is honesty, openness and a willingness to divulge details of any criminal convictions, cautions and relevant medical facts not only to them but also to the person countersigning your application form. As others have said, declare everything and do so BEFORE you ask anyone to countersign the form. As for the caution, if it's not serious it probably won't be a problem. If you're still unsure, give your local firearms enquiry officer a call and ask if they think it's worth you applying, just say you don't want to waste anyones time etc.. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wy111 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) When my coterminous was up for renewal last time. I did not put down that I had been pulled for no mot, it was 3 weeks out, I only got my hand slapped, BUT, was brought up at the interview. Was not a problem, but told, I should have noted it. For an initial application, declare all and add "I may have forgotten some from the past or minor offences, please check on PNC" For renewal, it is only what has happened since last grant (5yrs) Edit....You used to actually get prosecuted for not declaring, happened to ex bro in law around 20 yrs ago Edited March 7, 2012 by wy111 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topshunt Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Thanks for all the replys. The caution was for affray, long story short, wrong place wrong time totally unprovocked, but if you hit back in defense more than three times not classed as defending yourself. But what annoyed me most was when i went to get the caution the arresting officer was on sick. The officer that did cautin me had read through the case file and he said it was very harsh, he said anybody other that the arresting officer would have just given slap on wrist and sent me on my way. I'll declare it when i fill it in, would save any awkward questions then when they called round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointer Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Honesty is always the best policy. That way it won't come back and bite you. ATB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northeastshooter Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Declare it iv had acation and repremand when i was younger silly things but best to tell em they no anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Am I missing something? :blink: It SPECIFICALLY says "Cautions do not need to be mentioned" Why in God's name would you mention it if it specifically says don't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I think BASC may have got it wrong if they say there's no need to mention cautions. The notes at the bottom of the application form say what you should do: In answering question 14 you are not entitled to withhold information about any offence. This includes motoring offences, convictions in places outside Great Britain, and (by virtue of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) Order 1975) convictions which are spent under the 1974 Act. Both a conditional discharge and an absolute discharge count as convictions for this purpose. To have a caution you must have committed an offence. The notes clearly state you mustn't withhold information about ANY offence. You can only be convicted of an offence by a court, but by accepting a caution you have admitted to committing an offence, therefore you must put down the details on the form. I have cautions, and after speaking to my FEO I was told they had to be noted on the application. Just do it and save yourself any hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Look at it this way, if you do put them down and didn't need to, the worst that can happen is that they look at it and say 'waste of ink, he didn't need to write that down'. If you don't then the worst that can happen is they'll consider you to be dishonest in some way and trying to hide it by not declaring it, that is not what you want when applying for a SGC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Simple answer, ring the licensing dept and ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 as above,tell them it wont hurt honesty always prevails Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 You accepted the caution, put it on the form. One of my employees recently applied for SGC, I acted as his co signatory. Despite my advise to put anything and everything on the form, it transpired at interview and cabinet inspection time that a caution some 4 years ago had been ommitted. The FEO accepted that it was an error, and an SGC has been issued, but I feel that the decision could have easily gone the other way; leaving the lad with no other alternative other than to appeal, a costly option that he would have been unable to afford. Honesty is the best policy. In practice this may not always be true, but when it comes down to SGC and FAC applications its best to give police all of the facts to enable them to reach the correct decision. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 as above again ,here here :good: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topshunt Posted March 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 ok just spoke to FEO. Basically was told to ignore BASC and put down everything including speeding although they are not that concerned about them. What they are looking for is complete honesty, and generally a caution is not a problem when applying for sgc, was told they would probably just make a note of it and mention it at interview any further trouble and licence would be revoked. So best get looking at getting a cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debaser Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 BASC have got this wrong. Out of interest where did it say that on the website? Good luck with the application. ATB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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