karpman Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 That's the guy I was talking about 5 pages or so really nows how to push 12ftlb to its limits. Made some top vids indeed he has Karpman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Made some top vids indeed he has In this one the force is strong it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 In this one the force is strong it is :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Human kills...... The "other" white meat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Enlightening or foolhardy? I don't know. What I do know is that if i'd have shot at a rabbit at 62 yards when i used 12ft lb air rifles i would have got a clip round the lughole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 In this one the force is strong it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Make your own minds up. Great video simply amazing! :thumbs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Make your own minds up. I will admit I'm slightly surprised at the tightness of the groups at 75 metres - but considering it took 5 shots to actually hit the target and one flier was a long way off it would be irresponsible to take shots at live quarry at a distance where there is a 1/5 chance of hitting the target in the right place - 3 of those shots would wound an animal, the flier might miss completely. I know nobody is claiming shots at quarry at 75, but even at 56 yards (51 metres) I would not be comfortable that the shot accuracy was reliable enough to avoid injury, as though it will tighten things up the chances of a shot going off course still seem very high. Many of you are saying what good shooting - he missed enough of the 44mm targets, obviously it should be more accurate when brought back to the 56 yards that seems to be considered OK on rabbits, but when the kill zone is dropped to 30mm (less if shooting babies) if that's considered good by you all then there must be a huge amount of badly wounded rabbits out there nobody will admit to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 I will admit I'm slightly surprised at the tightness of the groups at 75 metres - but considering it took 5 shots to actually hit the target and one flier was a long way off it would be irresponsible to take shots at live quarry at a distance where there is a 1/5 chance of hitting the target in the right place - 3 of those shots would wound an animal, the flier might miss completely. I know nobody is claiming shots at quarry at 75, but even at 56 yards (51 metres) I would not be comfortable that the shot accuracy was reliable enough to avoid injury, as though it will tighten things up the chances of a shot going off course still seem very high. Many of you are saying what good shooting - he missed enough of the 44mm targets, obviously it should be more accurate when brought back to the 56 yards that seems to be considered OK on rabbits, but when the kill zone is dropped to 30mm (less if shooting babies) if that's considered good by you all then there must be a huge amount of badly wounded rabbits out there nobody will admit to. Strewth, give the guy a break willya, it was windy. Anyway that must be a fake video because he never used his "without further ado" catchphrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Total miss with a flier at that range would only be a slight flier at normal distances, much more chance of wounding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Here's an idea then tug, let's just use air rifles for paper punching. A wounded animal is a wounded animal. Why were at it may as well band driven shooting, no wait shotguns all together I have picked wounded birds whilst beating etc. Have also actually had to dispatch the odd pigeon I have clipped my self... Or am I totally missing your point here....... Karpman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Here's an idea then tug, let's just use air rifles for paper punching. A wounded animal is a wounded animal. Why were at it may as well band driven shooting, no wait shotguns all together I have picked wounded birds whilst beating etc. Have also actually had to dispatch the odd pigeon I have clipped my self... Or am I totally missing your point here....... Karpman Yes Karpman, I think that you really have missed an important point here which is: You can please some of the people some of the time but you will never please all of them all of the time because that is the way that Internet Forums work! There are a lot of people on the Internet who are not happy unless they have something to argue (Or complain) about and if there isn't anything to argue about they will creat something, even if they have to try to argue that black is in fact white, such is their sad lives. If any shooter can claim that he has never pulled or missed a shot then that shooter must either have a very short memory or be an out and out liar - Every single one of us (Myself included, maybe more than a few others) has pulled a shot at some time or another (Regardless of what type of rifle or shotgun we use) - Does that mean that we should all give up shooting live quarry just in case we inadvertantly pull the shot and that we should only shoot at paper targets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 I think the debate is going off course a bit, from whether It's ok to take long range shots at live quarry, to whether It's possible to kill cleanly all of the time - which it clearly isn't. I just think It's down to percentages and odds, if you can hit the kill zone more times than not in field conditions then great (and I mean hit and not just believe you can hit) but as the range increases then the odds of hitting the kill zone reduce dramatically. It is where you draw the line that matters here, for me in the field under perfect conditions I would consider 50 yards with a sub 12 ft/lb rifle to be absolute tops, any further and the chances of a miss are too great. I fully accept that many people will have different ideas on what is an acceptable risk, but I also think some people have an inflated idea of their own abilities. By the way I have taken very long shots in the past that have been perfect head shots, but I have also missed many more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 You have entirely missed my point. An issue was made about a flier at long range, I was pointing out the fact that the 'flier' would have a far greater deviation at long distances that would be more likely to result in a clean miss (with the exception of a body shot). That same flier at 30 yards would have a far lesser deviation from point of aim, meaning it is more likely to strike just outside the kill zone leading to wounding. Your suggestion that we don't hunt with air rifles is ridiculous. A far better suggestion would be to leave hunting live quarry to those that have confidence in their setup, know their own limitations and can judge each shot on the situation presented rather than using distance as the sole decider. I'm willing to bet there are more keyboard heroes on here that are wounding stuff at ranges well below that at which I'm getting clean kills because they can't shoot and haven't put the time in on paper or targets to know their capability or develop their skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) The video is excellent proof that air guns should not be used beyond ranges of around 40 yards. This guy is at the top of his game, using a gun and pellet combo he clearly knows inside out, at a range shielded well from the wind, using a rested rifle with the aid of a range finder and the rifle no doubt actually zeroed for that specific range( highly important point) , yet he still manages to miss (wound) 2 x 7 shots of what can only be described as quite large kill zones. He also would have wounded with 4 x 5 shots later attempted on the 15mm kill zone :unsure: . To even begin to think of real life hunting scenarios as anywhere near as ideal as those we saw on the video is day dreaming. One of his pellets failed to re-set the rat target which is as good a wound example as you would be likely to see. Pellets flatten well against hard surfaces using low power pistols, so that is certainly not a reliable measure of oodles of excess power down range. I don't incidentally believe he was advocating that range for hunting, just that plinking was a doable exercise. Hunt at ranges you know you can hit the vitals every time, 62 yard head shots on pigeon are possible but not by many, a near miss may remove half the beak . As for our farmer member thinking spray and hope is OK just cos they're vermin . I'm willing to bet there are more keyboard heroes on here that are wounding stuff at ranges well below that at which I'm getting clean kills because they can't shoot and haven't put the time in on paper or targets to know their capability or develop their skills. Probably true, but that is an entirely different argument. Edited April 17, 2012 by Hamster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 The video is excellent proof that air guns should not be used beyond ranges of around 40 yards. This guy is at the top of his game, using a gun and pellet combo he clearly knows inside out, at a range shielded well from the wind, using a rested rifle with the aid of a range finder and the rifle no doubt actually zeroed for that specific range( highly important point) , yet he still managers to miss (wound) 2 x 7 shots of what can only be described as quite large kill zones. He also would have wounded with 4 x 5 shots later attempted on the 15mm kill zone :unsure: . To even begin to think of real life hunting scenarios as anywhere near as ideal as those we saw on the video is day dreaming. One of his pellets failed to re-set the rat target which is as good a wound example as you would be likely to see. Pellets flatten well against hard surfaces using low power pistols, so that is certainly not a reliable measure of oodles of excess power down range. I don't incidentally believe he was advocating that range for hunting, just that plinking was a doable exercise. Hunt at ranges you know you can hit the vitals every time, 62 yard head shots on pigeon are possible but not by many, a near miss may remove half the beak . As for our farmer member thinking spray and hope is OK just cos they're vermin . Probably true, but that is an entirely different argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) Probably true, but that is an entirely different argument. True, and extremely valid. When somebody posts about a rabbit or pigeon shot at 30 yards, is there a massive queue of people waiting to ask if the shooter had spent the necessary time ensuring that they could consistently group at that range? Edited April 17, 2012 by Tug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 True, and extremely valid. When somebody posts about a rabbit or pigeon shot at 30 yards, is there a massive queue of people waiting to ask if the shooter had spent the necessary time ensuring that they could consistently group at that range? No but there is a good reason for that Tug, it's called collective experience of the experienced. If you have any sort of background with air guns and their use on live quarry and general accuracy, it is a reasonable assumption to think 30 yards as being OK for most people. I don't disagree that for some 30 yards may well be way over their capability, but we're making educated guesses here. I would be prepared to make an educated guess that if we were to field test the head shot at 60-70 yard wannabe's, only a tiny minority would live up to their claims. What's more I would also be prepared to bet that such shots would absolutely lead to more wounding than if the same man attempted shots at half that distance. This is due to a combination of human error and reduced killing power of the puny pellets we're talking about. My argument has never been that such men and their magnificent machines don't exist, merely that there are better, more suited guns for the purpose so why the risk? Other than ego that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 My argument has never been that such men and their magnificent machines don't exist, merely that there are better, more suited guns for the purpose so why the risk? Other than ego that is. That's all well, good and commendable. However, one of my permissions is never going to get firearms approval due to allotments behind it and another private property to one side, the only useable weapon is the legal air rifle and even then the angles of fire are restricted. Sometimes you don't have the option but to do the job you may have to take on some longer shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 You can throw a snare a long way. :lol: I know what you mean of course but here we're talking about people who would shoot ultra long range as a matter of right not necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Let's be fair it was ben's call to make and he executed that decision clinicaly !! Great shot ben keep up the good work !! Moral of the story is dont post anything on here unless you want trial by keyboard off the soapbox brigade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgguinness Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Well I think it is a good shot mate, and fair doo's for posting your pic. Never mind the negative people, they have obviously never pricked a bird or have killed every bunny instantly with every shot taken. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Well I think it is a good shot mate, and fair doo's for posting your pic. Never mind the negative people, they have obviously never pricked a bird or have killed every bunny instantly with every shot taken. Jonathan Everyone has, its just some people want to do it as little as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 this thread is boring. :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgguinness Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Dont we all, and there is nothing more disappointing when it happens, was just sticking up for the lad. Imagine his disappointment, he is pleased with himself, over the moon, takes a pic, pops it on his favourite forum, only to be torn to bits by some folk!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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