ChrisAsh Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 I experienced the stringing phenomena most often with heavy loads of large shot which is most often softer than our trap and skeet loads and usually higher in velocity and longer in shot string initially. Answering your question about why shot would decide to slow down has to do with pellets flattening on the sides due to setback/forcing cone/bore scrubbing. Obviously a pellet that has a flat side and a round side will slow and often times leave the pattern at an oblique angle. Again this is more pronounced with soft shot and heavy loads than with square loads with hard shot. I believe this in part is the reason why the 21-24 gram loads seem to perform better than they should and beefing up loads is self defeating in terms of efficiency. Whilst i agree that lead will flatten, the velocity change over say 40-60 metres will be very small, after all look at the wide range of velocities available where the experts say the difference is about 3 inches in lead at normal distances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 Those who can do; those who can't, pattern! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Potter Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 Those who can do; those who can't, pattern! Succinctly put young Ed, I admire your restraint. I'd be more inclined to say, in a very loud voice SHOOT THE BLOODY GUN AT A CLAY NOT A PIECE OF PAPER! For an individual shooter patterning or theorising about shot string will not add a single solitary point to their score. I have a teague choked gun and I change chokes very infrequently (I favour more open chokes on the 100 chips better than 99 balls of soot principle) If I was ever deluded enough to think that a different make of choke would improve my score I would pack it all in and take up naked skydiving :o :o and that ain't going to happen Mr Potter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 I would pack it all in and take up naked skydiving :o :o and that ain't going to happen Mr Potter That's a relief :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 I have to say that I think that all this choke tube manufacturing is a lucrative business, especially in the U.S. Therein lies the the reason! They are U.S. at Sporting clays. Admittedly they are good in the Olympic disciplines because the U.S. Army pays for it all and if your good enough to be selected you could possibly shoot free for the rest of your life. Muller chokes are technically innovative but that is all, no better, no worse, than any of the others.Find a gun,choke, cartridge combination that you are happy with and get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 I pattern. It certainly shows were the gun shoots, it shows up loads that pattern badly (especially with steel loads and shot cups failing to sepparate). Stringing is debatable and there are others who have failed to identify its effect in the past. But what can be said for 100% sure is if its a rubbish pattern on paper it wont transform into a good one on quarry or moving pattern plates. I believe its a requirement with a new gun, new load / bought shell or different choke + same load. The real test has to be on the Birds cartridge to kill and persentages wounded. Facilities to do as such are limited for many though which is a shame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted May 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) Succinctly put young Ed, I admire your restraint. I'd be more inclined to say, in a very loud voice SHOOT THE BLOODY GUN AT A CLAY NOT A PIECE OF PAPER! For an individual shooter patterning or theorising about shot string will not add a single solitary point to their score. I have a teague choked gun and I change chokes very infrequently (I favour more open chokes on the 100 chips better than 99 balls of soot principle) If I was ever deluded enough to think that a different make of choke would improve my score I would pack it all in and take up naked skydiving :o :o and that ain't going to happen Mr Potter Evidently Chris, Ed and Mr. Potter missed the part about the load patterning was for HEAVY LOADS meant for waterfowl not clay birds.If you reread what I said, it isn't a problem with light loads which are usually used for clay targets. I detect a little animosity and understand it. When confronted with something you don't grasp it is only natural to attempt ridicule. It seems there are the curious inventive types and then there are the guardians of dogma that won't see because of a closed mind. I glean my information from sources that have done their homework on the subject. Read Brister's book, it has pictures for the less intellectual types. Edited May 28, 2012 by coyotemaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 No ridicule, just enough knowledge to know what to worry about an what not to. Anyway I'm sure the book would be far to difficult for a simpleton such as me to grasp; not enough pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Evidently Chris, Ed and Mr. Potter missed the part about the load patterning was for HEAVY LOADS meant for waterfowl not clay birds.If you reread what I said, it isn't a problem with light loads which are usually used for clay targets. I detect a little animosity and understand it. When confronted with something you don't grasp it is only natural to attempt ridicule. It seems there are the curious inventive types and then there are the guardians of dogma that won't see because of a closed mind. I glean my information from sources that have done their homework on the subject. Read Brister's book, it has pictures for the less intellectual types. Looks as though that part was definitely missed. Won't find it now, testosterone has made it all a bit fuzzy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted May 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Looks as though that part was definitely missed. Won't find it now, testosterone has made it all a bit fuzzy. Point taken Wymberley!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 You just need to see a good coach.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 In the US reloading cartridges is a lot more popular than here, they are even allowed to shoot home loads in competitions. I can understand why they pattern various loads for all the different uses a shotgun is used for over there. I've never really bothered with it as I just shoot clays but for hunting etc; I can see the benefit that it makes when you do load your own, or even factory ammo to see how well it will pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) But make sure it fits! Sorry about the slow reply I had to cut a couple of shells open and make a 3D pyramid out of the shot after I counted it and tested it for hardness. Fancy my chances at a team place now; it's in the bag! Puuuuuuuull Edited May 28, 2012 by EdSolomons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 You just need to see a good coach.... I like this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 That looks like an AMAZING coach! What is the hourly rate an is he CPSA/BASC approved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 I think paisley is a nice pattern IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Although I wouldn't argue with the likes of Ed and Mr Potter, I have found a pattern test useful for telling me where a gun shoots and how big the pattern is. An example is my A400, which shoots a fair bit higher than I expected it to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutcracker Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 What? A talking pattern plate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 What? A talking pattern plate? Radio-linked to my noise-cancelling ear defenders and Bluetooth-enabled cartridge utility belt . Actually, it was wide commercial wallpaper clipped to some old vinyl flooring to stop it flapping about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 That looks like an AMAZING coach! What is the hourly rate an is he CPSA/BASC approved? Eduardo, Of course Coach Public Service Approved / Big And Smart Coach cost £10 Birmingham to Heathrow pre-booked. National :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Brian Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Why didn't I think of using the side of a coach to look at the shot stringing earlier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Why didn't I think of using the side of a coach to look at the shot stringing earlier? That's inspired ! But who is going to volunteer to drive ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 That's inspired ! But who is going to volunteer to drive ? Mr Alec Mackay did so in 1926! Sadly, I haven't a clue how to go about producing it here, but if someone with that ability has The Modern Shotgun by Burrard, in Vol 3 there's a photo (Plate 11) of his "coach" which is an eye opener - ealf and what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Brian Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Mr Alec Mackay did so in 1926! Sadly, I haven't a clue how to go about producing it here, but if someone with that ability has The Modern Shotgun by Burrard, in Vol 3 there's a photo (Plate 11) of his "coach" which is an eye opener - ealf and what? That would be interesting to see (wouldn't want to valet the drivers seat after that though). I have seen the pretty little elongated V shaped diagrams of how the shot string is supposed to look but it is always difficult to see how many pellets a target would pick for up for certain on it's way through the pattern/ string depending on whether you hit it with the leading edge/ top edge/ middle etc of the pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Just to bring a little spoiler in all this excitement about shot striiiiiiiiiing , the average clay has travelled some 3 inches in the time it takes for the first and last pellets to have passed it by . During this time which many seem to believe can turn a front miss into a hit , it can just as easiy dodge a pellet that would have otherwise hit it, as run into one that wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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