Doctors industrial action

[vole]

I am a life long health worker who definitely does not toady to doctors . However if me or mine need any serious medical or surgical care I want an expert who lives well ,gets good holidays ,does not worry about bills etc. I also want them to have been the top of their class. In other words I want their career choice to have been first choice . Discuss.

[Mungler]

If you look at the required graft, grades, years in higher education and years doing on the job training (like most healthcare professionals) then they should get paid well.

 

Then look at the hours they have to maintain and keep to, the responsibilty that rests with them day to day and the genuine worth of their job, then they should get paid really well.

 

I say all of this in the same breath that nurses and other healthcare professionals should get paid more than moronic spoilt spit roasting footballers and star struck no talent wannabe idiots who shouldn't get a penny.

[amateur]

If you look at the required graft, grades, years in higher education and years doing on the job training (like most healthcare professionals) then they should get paid well.

 

Then look at the hours they have to maintain and keep to, the responsibilty that rests with them day to day and the genuine worth of their job, then they should get paid really well.

 

I say all of this in the same breath that nurses and other healthcare professionals should get paid more than moronic spoilt spit roasting footballers and star struck no talent wannabe idiots who shouldn't get a penny.

 

And where do lawyers fit in this pay structure?

[beeredup]

i personally do not agree with thier plight they are goin on strike because they arent happy about getting a career average salary pension rather than a final salary pension. the final salary pension in just about every career is a thing of the past and i personally think its unreasonable to expect the NHS to have a final salary pension system as a burden to its finances

[Mungler]

And where do lawyers fit in this pay structure?

 

Market rates and all that, same as in any commercial environment where market forces dictate remuneration.

[unapalomablanca]

I am a life long health worker who definitely does not toady to doctors . However if me or mine need any serious medical or surgical care I want an expert who lives well ,gets good holidays ,does not worry about bills etc. I also want them to have been the top of their class. In other words I want their career choice to have been first choice . Discuss.

And be assured they do live well and dont worry about bills. They had a massive improvement in their contract under labour which meant much bigger dough for less work. I also want the guy who fixes my brakes and the one who drives the school bus to live like a king but be assured, they do not. To strike with that brilliant wage and unbelievable pension is arrogance of the highest order.

[Chard]

And be assured they do live well and dont worry about bills. They had a massive improvement in their contract under labour which meant much bigger dough for less work. I also want the guy who fixes my brakes and the one who drives the school bus to live like a king but be assured, they do not. To strike with that brilliant wage and unbelievable pension is arrogance of the highest order.

 

 

I agree. Pure ******* snouts-in-the-trough greed.

 

They deserve good pay, they've got it, they just want more and more. Never ******* ends.

[Paddy Galore!]

And be assured they do live well and dont worry about bills. They had a massive improvement in their contract under labour which meant much bigger dough for less work. I also want the guy who fixes my brakes and the one who drives the school bus to live like a king but be assured, they do not. To strike with that brilliant wage and unbelievable pension is arrogance of the highest order.

 

 

I agree. Pure ******* snouts-in-the-trough greed.

 

They deserve good pay, they've got it, they just want more and more. Never ******* ends.

I agree with the above,

although they're not all in favour of strike action, some are quite content with what they have.

[Diceman]

110K pa Salary and a 68K pa pension seems pretty comfortable to me. Especially as that is now for a 9-5 job with no out of hours / weekends / home visits.

[beeredup]

think its pure greed they are being offered a very good pension package as are teachers, nurses and police officers but because they are being expected to put more into their pension as most of us who do not work in the public sector are having to do they are striking!! i work in a very cash rich industry ( oil and gas production) and the days of a final salary pension are long over barring the very top of the pile!

[CZ550Kevlar]

last time i checked they were well paid for what they do, or are we meant to be angry at the person that held the gun to their heads and forced them to be doctors??

[joe1978]

110K pa Salary and a 68K pa pension seems pretty comfortable to me. Especially as that is now for a 9-5 job with no out of hours / weekends / home visits.

 

Em, a bit worse than that, a full time GP only works 4 days a week excluding weekends.

 

Joe

[Bagsy]

It saddens me to say the last two doctors I've been with were shocking. One had to be woken up (rudely) by the receptionist, struggled to understand English and seemingly relied on a computer while in-putting my symptoms. I walked out in disgust.

 

The second was rarely in his surgery and never replied to letters from a GP I saw privately. To top it all he never returned having been home to Africa. The surgery closed as a replacement couldn't be found.

 

Probably another topic but what assurances do we have about the ability of foreign labour being used in such trusted positions? In my limited experience I'm far from impressed.

[Vermincinerator]

They will get anything they want, remember when they were called into negociations about a pay cut and increrased hours by the previous labour government? they came out with a pay increase and a cut in hours!!

 

Ian.

[joe1978]

Indeed the BMA are a formidable lot to deal with I reckon.

[four-wheel-drive]

I think all of these pensions should be privatized you pay in to the pot the government puts some in to the pot and you get out just what is in the pot why the hell do we have to pay for them to live in luxury when we are living in poverty.

[SakoQuad]

They are particularly p**d off about now having to pay 1/7 of their salary as pension contribution into a reduced benefits scheme. Not sure who wouldn't be really. They are no different to anybody else who works, makes their plans and gets hacked off when their contracts are unilaterally and adversely changed, public or private employer.

[Havana]

While i will not come on here and defend a whole profession, my good lady is a recently qualified doctor and after spending 6 years at Uni came out with £35 000 of debt which is a whole lot less than the next lot who will be paying £9000 a year.

 

I have done ok for myself working hard everyday without much book-smarts I just knuckled down and worked my way up. Thankfully when I get home I can kick back and have a beer or go out shooting.

 

The wife has to continue to study to stay "current" and be the best she can be,

this ongoing learning is for the rest of her career.

 

Salary wise its a very decent number but if you break it down to an hourly rate I actually get paid more and come the end of my shift I can leave. You don't tend to find many Doctors who pack up regardless of what's happening.

 

while I am a MASSIVE anti unionist I ******* hate them. I am somewhat torn with this debate.

 

I think the argument is less about the money and more about the terms and conditions being imposed. To be honest from being around lots of Doctors all this will do is increase the amount of good doctors that were born and raised here leaving for foreign shores. Leaving us with the the second rate ones.

[Thunderbird]

And the ones who can't speak English.

[lxtav]

A lot of this debate is being centred on the Pensions that the public sector get and yes they are good but you pay a lot for them. However I believe that this is being put about by government spin to make the professions look bad for their own political agenda. One argument I read from a doctor was that their contributions are going up to 14.5% of their salary (the same as the police) but comparably paid civil servants are going to no where near that. It is the inequality that they are angry about just as the police, teachers etc are. You have certain parts of the public sector having their pension contributions go up to 4-5% of their wages and complaining bitterly while others go up to 12-14.5% but they are all getting virtually the same pension benefits. Make every one in the public sector pay 14.5% of their wages and problem solved.

 

Also how much do you think the politicians, who we know are all highly trustworthy, will change their own pension scheme as we hear absolutley nothing about what they are going to do to that do we. The government are also messing around with things they don't need to. The police and I believe also the fire service already changed there pension schemes and the costs of these are reducing so why the spin that they are unreformed and unafordable. There has to be something wrong when teachers, nurses, doctors, the police etc are all saying that the reforms will destroy and damage the services that we get not improve them as the government says.

 

When I was studying engineering at university we had to do a couse on practical skills such as welding and fabrication. The idea was to give the engineer an idea what the skills and problems facing the welders, fitters etc, who were probably not as academically qualified as the engineer, had. We were also told before you try and change anything ask the foreman as thay have been there for years and know the factory, refinery and such like the back of their hand. They may not have the qualification but they will know better than you if what you want to do is possible. May be this is a lesson for the government to listen to the people who do the job and know what its about and how it can be improved rather than to unelected ministers and advisors from priviliged backgrounds, private schooling and rich families who have no idea how the normal person lives and are following a political agenda for their own ends.

[Havana]

A lot of this debate is being centred on the Pensions that the public sector get and yes they are good but you pay a lot for them. However I believe that this is being put about by government spin to make the professions look bad for their own political agenda. One argument I read from a doctor was that their contributions are going up to 14.5% of their salary (the same as the police) but comparably paid civil servants are going to no where near that. It is the inequality that they are angry about just as the police, teachers etc are. You have certain parts of the public sector having their pension contributions go up to 4-5% of their wages and complaining bitterly while others go up to 12-14.5% but they are all getting virtually the same pension benefits. Make every one in the public sector pay 14.5% of their wages and problem solved.

 

Also how much do you think the politicians, who we know are all highly trustworthy, will change their own pension scheme as we hear absolutley nothing about what they are going to do to that do we. The government are also messing around with things they don't need to. The police and I believe also the fire service already changed there pension schemes and the costs of these are reducing so why the spin that they are unreformed and unafordable. There has to be something wrong when teachers, nurses, doctors, the police etc are all saying that the reforms will destroy and damage the services that we get not improve them as the government says.

 

When I was studying engineering at university we had to do a couse on practical skills such as welding and fabrication. The idea was to give the engineer an idea what the skills and problems facing the welders, fitters etc, who were probably not as academically qualified as the engineer, had. We were also told before you try and change anything ask the foreman as thay have been there for years and know the factory, refinery and such like the back of their hand. They may not have the qualification but they will know better than you if what you want to do is possible. May be this is a lesson for the government to listen to the people who do the job and know what its about and how it can be improved rather than to unelected ministers and advisors from priviliged backgrounds, private schooling and rich families who have no idea how the normal person lives and are following a political agenda for their own ends.

 

:good:

 

Perfectly put

[compo90]

A lot of this debate is being centred on the Pensions that the public sector get and yes they are good but you pay a lot for them. However I believe that this is being put about by government spin to make the professions look bad for their own political agenda. One argument I read from a doctor was that their contributions are going up to 14.5% of their salary (the same as the police) but comparably paid civil servants are going to no where near that. It is the inequality that they are angry about just as the police, teachers etc are. You have certain parts of the public sector having their pension contributions go up to 4-5% of their wages and complaining bitterly while others go up to 12-14.5% but they are all getting virtually the same pension benefits. Make every one in the public sector pay 14.5% of their wages and problem solved.

 

Also how much do you think the politicians, who we know are all highly trustworthy, will change their own pension scheme as we hear absolutley nothing about what they are going to do to that do we. The government are also messing around with things they don't need to. The police and I believe also the fire service already changed there pension schemes and the costs of these are reducing so why the spin that they are unreformed and unafordable. There has to be something wrong when teachers, nurses, doctors, the police etc are all saying that the reforms will destroy and damage the services that we get not improve them as the government says.

 

When I was studying engineering at university we had to do a couse on practical skills such as welding and fabrication. The idea was to give the engineer an idea what the skills and problems facing the welders, fitters etc, who were probably not as academically qualified as the engineer, had. We were also told before you try and change anything ask the foreman as thay have been there for years and know the factory, refinery and such like the back of their hand. They may not have the qualification but they will know better than you if what you want to do is possible. May be this is a lesson for the government to listen to the people who do the job and know what its about and how it can be improved rather than to unelected ministers and advisors from priviliged backgrounds, private schooling and rich families who have no idea how the normal person lives and are following a political agenda for their own ends.

 

excellent post.

 

I am a PC paying currently 12.5% of my wage for the same pension i signed up for to pay 11% for, they changed the rules, and your right there will be another increase in pension contributions and i will end up paying nearly 15% of my wage for the same deal.....i cant change the rules and say i want that now......

 

what isn't fair as you put is that there are some within the public sector not paying anything like that and may i argue not doing anything as useful, all public sector contributions should be roughly the same.

 

and back to doctors, my nephew is a student doctor.......very upset and furious. about this.....his dad is a dentist in the army......the ironic thing is that my nephews grades at A level were not good enough for him to do dentistry (he was under pressure from his parents to do that, they knew how profitable it is, he wanted to be a doctor and its worked out best for him, but not financially in the long run)

[al4x]

A lot of this debate is being centred on the Pensions that the public sector get and yes they are good but you pay a lot for them. However I believe that this is being put about by government spin to make the professions look bad for their own political agenda. One argument I read from a doctor was that their contributions are going up to 14.5% of their salary (the same as the police) but comparably paid civil servants are going to no where near that. It is the inequality that they are angry about just as the police, teachers etc are. You have certain parts of the public sector having their pension contributions go up to 4-5% of their wages and complaining bitterly while others go up to 12-14.5% but they are all getting virtually the same pension benefits. Make every one in the public sector pay 14.5% of their wages and problem solved.

 

 

 

On the pension front do you really think they pay a lot into them? it may seem a lot on a day to day basis but compared to what comes out its the deal of the century. Which is the issue its not sustainable the country cannot afford it, if you look what the same contributions would equate to in the private sector then thats where it turns into an eye opener.

[lxtav]

excellent post.

 

I am a PC paying currently 12.5% of my wage for the same pension i signed up for to pay 11% for, they changed the rules, and your right there will be another increase in pension contributions and i will end up paying nearly 15% of my wage for the same deal.....i cant change the rules and say i want that now......

 

what isn't fair as you put is that there are some within the public sector not paying anything like that and may i argue not doing anything as useful, all public sector contributions should be roughly the same.

 

and back to doctors, my nephew is a student doctor.......very upset and furious. about this.....his dad is a dentist in the army......the ironic thing is that my nephews grades at A level were not good enough for him to do dentistry (he was under pressure from his parents to do that, they knew how profitable it is, he wanted to be a doctor and its worked out best for him, but not financially in the long run)

 

Im also a PC (paying the same as you) but luckily working in Scotland so don't have to contend with the Windsor report as the Scottish Government likes the police and public sector and thinks there is a better way of doing it and that this is just a money grab from the treasury against doctors, teachers etc. I don't mind reform but not when it is for the sake of doing it they are trying to change things when they don't need to. All the professions have put forward alternative plans that would make the same savings and the government has just ignored them and continued on the path that they want.

 

Remember "We are all in this together" unless your a politician or rich.

[pimpkiller]

I would much much prefer it if we had more better paid and trained doctors rather than importing foreign "doctors" to make up the numbers. Doctors arnt what they used to be, the amount ive encountered who cant speak English, work a computer and obliviously dont know what they are doing is incredible. I would actually say doctors arnt paid enough and its too hard/expensive to start out training to be a doctor in this country. Anyway out of the 100k wage how much do they actualy get to keep after tax, half?

Edited May 31, 2012 by pimpkiller