arm our police or not

[Blacksheep]

Not arm all police with a sidearm but i think every police car should carry a shotgun plus a variety of lethal / non-lethal rounds and all officers trained in their use , Charlie Bird might have been prevented from killing so many people if the police car following had the means to stop him .

[Andy H]

The risk of negligent discharges increase's every time a firearm is handled, Now when this involves pointing a firearm at another human being ,The adrenalin and rushed circumstances of the incident will only lead to an increase in fatal accident's .

Also the use/drawing of the firearm will start off as a last resort for armed criminal's but then probably it will be gradually used for non life threatening incident's and arrest's or just to stop some one walking away as in America.

[ordnance]

The risk of negligent discharges increase's every time a firearm is handled, Now when this involves pointing a firearm at another human being ,The adrenalin and rushed circumstances of the incident will only lead to an increase in fatal accident's .

Also the use/drawing of the firearm will start off as a last resort for armed criminal's but then probably it will be gradually used for non life threatening incident's and arrest's or just to stop some one walking away as in America.

 

 

 

How do they manage here without the problems you refer to. ? I see that the MET managed to have more ND-S than the PSNI and the PSNI is an armed force.

 

ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE LEAGUE TABLE:Metropolitan Police 56

 

Northern Ireland 31

 

Bedfordshire 3

Devon and Cornwall 2

 

Lincolnshire Police 2

Edited June 16, 2012 by ordnance

[njc110381]

Also the use/drawing of the firearm will start off as a last resort for armed criminal's but then probably it will be gradually used for non life threatening incident's and arrest's or just to stop some one walking away as in America.

 

Now go back and read my last post and that of Ordnance.

[Muggins.]

Not arm all police with a sidearm but i think every police car should carry a shotgun plus a variety of lethal / non-lethal rounds and all officers trained in their use , Charlie Bird might have been prevented from killing so many people if the police car following had the means to stop him .

I don`t trust our police with a baton leave alone a firearm.

Around the local area there are braver kids than there are police. I hate slating the law but it`s a sad fact, when you have 9 officers turn up at the supermarket to arrest an 82 year old shoplifter then something is seriously wrong.

They weren`t so brave when Froggy Bale was wondering around our estate in a threatening manner with a baseball bat.

Arm our police? Yes, when the public don`t have to do their work for them.

[ordnance]

Now go back and read my last post and that of Ordnance.

 

You have lost me. I don't see how if they can train and arm one UK force they couldn't do it with the rest. If they wanted to.

 

Quote. But then probably it will be gradually used for non life threatening incident's and arrest's or just to stop some one walking away as in America. I have not seen that happen here.

Edited June 16, 2012 by ordnance

[lxtav]

I have mixed views on this one and can see both sides. At present I don't think we should be armed as I don't believe we need it, especiall not in Scotland at present. However I can possibly see it happening before I get to the end of my service if things continue the way they are going. What we need are more Armed Response cars and a bit more back bone from the bosses as to deploying firearms. There are to many senior bosses worried about making these decisions in case they go wrong and when they do the amount of grief and legal action against them and the cops.

 

As regards the training the problem is not training the officers but the time it takes at present we don't have enough cops to cope with holidays and other training without adding in firearms training as well the police in this country are just not set up for that. I also have to agree about trusting cops with fireams. Most of the older cops are pretty well clued up and can think on their feet and would rather talk there way out of it than get into a fight. However a lot of the younger cops who make up the vast majority of the cops on the street that would deal with these situations are totally gung ho and can't speak to people thinking its great fun to wind them up and get into a fight with someone. I have seen situations on more than one occassion get out of hand due to this attitute and then the cops have to be rescued by the rest of us. I definately wouldn't want them to have the use of a gun.

 

I personally wouldn't want to be armed just now but do think the ARV's should be used more often but if society got to the stage it justified the routine arming of the police I would do it.

[kdubya]

Best left alone in my book, we have an armed response system now that makes more than its fair share of proverbial balls up's , to routinely arm all coppers would be akin to arming the local nut-house inmates.

 

KW

[Imperfection]

We dont need to arm everyday cops.Armed crime isnt prolific and those which do happen are quickly dealt with by officers who carry guns.

 

Anyway,i bet atleast half of the UK Police force have never held held a gun let alone fired one so they would need extensive training to ensure everyones safety.Im not knocking old bill in the slightest,but we're its just different lifestyles in that firearms here dont play a major part of it.

[dazza]

armed in n Ireland for obvious reasons and have had few issues.not enough criminals shot over here.

 

Waste of time sure their not allowed to use them.

[bigt1754]

I don`t trust our police with a baton leave alone a firearm.

Around the local area there are braver kids than there are police. I hate slating the law but it`s a sad fact, when you have 9 officers turn up at the supermarket to arrest an 82 year old shoplifter then something is seriously wrong.

They weren`t so brave when Froggy Bale was wondering around our estate in a threatening manner with a baseball bat.

Arm our police? Yes, when the public don`t have to do their work for them.

 

What ever are you talking about? :look:

Edited June 16, 2012 by bigt1754

[mossy835]

if you give the police guns, they will only leave them in the toilet. or on top of cars like in the past.

[Mungler]

In a word "no". They have gas, tasers and tactical firearms units already.

 

Ok, if you're in the police and working on Trident, then you're probably already in a tactical firearm unit and packing what you need. However, for the 99% that are on traffic or town centre weekend control then you already have what you need.

 

If we had the proliferation of guns like in the States then maybe, but given our very strict firearm controls and the ban on handguns then the average bobby doesn't need tooling up, and tooling up the average bobby presents all manner of problems in itself.

[deershooter]

Most of the ones I worked with for 16 years if you gave them two ball bearings they would break one and loose the other

 

some things should just not be :good:

 

like

POLICE MARKSMAN :lol:

 

Military intelligence :lol:

 

LADY DRIVER :lol:

 

Deershooter

[Zulu]

Most of the ones I worked with for 16 years if you gave them two ball bearings they would break one and loose the other

 

some things should just not be :good:

 

like

POLICE MARKSMAN :lol:

 

Military intelligence :lol:

 

LADY DRIVER :lol:

 

Deershooter

 

How do you break a ball bearing ?

[bedwards1966]

Who would/could give this outside help/training ? , just interested as to whats available and suitable for civilian police .

 

Anything would be a vast improvement on what they currently do - most civilian shooters have far better safety awareness and are able to use the guns far more accurately.

The army would probably be a good approach to train them, the important thing is safety, but they also need some degree of accuracy.

The issue is that the police take the view that they are superior to everyone else, especially civilians, and refuse to accept that there is room or need for improvement. If that attitude changed they could learn how to be safe.

If they learned how to use the firearms safely and stopped being so trigger-happy and only used firearms as a final resort then arming them could be acceptable.

[gemini52]

I think we should get back to the traditional old beat bobby,cycling about and keeping an eye on things.The country was a much better place and all he needed to do was give the yardies,poles,Lithuanians,drug dealers,paedos,armed robbers,murderers,WELSH and IRISH a wee skelp on the ear or threaten to tell their parents when they were up to high jinks and everything would be fine.

If only

[bigt1754]

In a word "no". They have gas, tasers and tactical firearms units already.

 

Ok, if you're in the police and working on Trident, then you're probably already in a tactical firearm unit and packing what you need. However, for the 99% that are on traffic or town centre weekend control then you already have what you need.

 

If we had the proliferation of guns like in the States then maybe, but given our very strict firearm controls and the ban on handguns then the average bobby doesn't need tooling up, and tooling up the average bobby presents all manner of problems in itself.

 

With you to a point Mungler.....

 

Trident and the like come under MODPLOD probably... These are funded by central government (which is why they have very nice kit,) so not the same thing.

 

You're right we're not like the states (thank god) and I hope we don't. I consider myself to be an 'average bobby' and in all the jobs I have attended, I have never felt the need for a firearm, taser yes, firearm no. I think taser, would be a preferred option, I have seen the hardest machete wielding man become most complient when red dotted with a taser. A lot less paperwork than a firearm as well

[poontang]

With you to a point Mungler.....

 

Trident and the like come under MODPLOD probably... These are funded by central government (which is why they have very nice kit,) so not the same thing.

 

 

 

I think Mung was talking about Operation Trident as opposed to Trident missiles. It's a Met initiative to tackle mainly black on black gun crime.

 

I think overall we've got about the right balance at the moment.

 

A lot of rank and file officers don't want to be armed, I would only envisage problems if they were suddenly told to tool up, and potentially kill someone.

[ordnance]

I have mixed views on this one and can see both sides. At present I don't think we should be armed as I don't believe we need it, especiall not in Scotland at present. However I can possibly see it happening before I get to the end of my service if things continue the way they are going. What we need are more Armed Response cars and a bit more back bone from the bosses as to deploying firearms. There are to many senior bosses worried about making these decisions in case they go wrong and when they do the amount of grief and legal action against them and the cops.

 

As regards the training the problem is not training the officers but the time it takes at present we don't have enough cops to cope with holidays and other training without adding in firearms training as well the police in this country are just not set up for that. I also have to agree about trusting cops with fireams. Most of the older cops are pretty well clued up and can think on their feet and would rather talk there way out of it than get into a fight. However a lot of the younger cops who make up the vast majority of the cops on the street that would deal with these situations are totally gung ho and can't speak to people thinking its great fun to wind them up and get into a fight with someone. I have seen situations on more than one occassion get out of hand due to this attitute and then the cops have to be rescued by the rest of us. I definately wouldn't want them to have the use of a gun.

 

I personally wouldn't want to be armed just now but do think the ARV's should be used more often but if society got to the stage it justified the routine arming of the police I would do it.

 

I see what you are saying. But how do you think the younger officers manage here ? . As for intensive training firearms training would be a very small percentage of the overall training over here. I am sure that some soldiers on the forum that served over here. Would have worked and seen armed police here did any see the police being armed as a problem.?

Edited June 16, 2012 by ordnance

[ordnance]

Waste of time sure their not allowed to use them.

 

That's not always the case. Example below.

 

A suspected armed robber has been shot dead by an off duty police officer.

 

Police sources said the officer shot at a man they said was armed with a knife at a petrol station on Belfast's Albertbridge Road.

 

The shooting took place after 7pm yesterday evening.

 

The man shot by the officer was initially said to have been injured but has since died.

 

It is understood the off-duty officer may have come upon the scene, but the police service said the full details of what happened had yet to be established.

[Zulu]

I see what you are saying. But how do you think the younger officers manage here ? . As for intensive training firearms training would be a very small percentage of the overall training over here.

 

Just as a matter of interest do you know how often the officers refresh their training ? as everyone is armed I imagine its quite a commitment for the training depts .

[ordnance]

Just as a matter of interest do you know how often the officers refresh their training ? as everyone is armed I imagine its quite a commitment for the training depts .

 

Operational Development Training

 

Eleven weeks pre-Tutorship training based at various Northern Ireland Police College sites, consisting of:

•2 weeks firearms training*

•3 weeks driver training (dependent on driving categories held)

•1 week tactical patrolling training*

•3 days First Aid training*

•3 days search training*

•1 day fire safety and HEP B injections

•3 days public order awareness

•2 days communications training

•2 days ICIS training

•3 days NICHE training

•1 week annual leave (compulsory due to number of days worked

 

I am sure they have to have refresher courses. Not sure how often but can find out.

[Fisherman Mike]

Seems many have used the original post as an opportunity slag of the Police Force which is without doubt one of the best in the World. That wasnt the original question.

 

In my Opinion No they should not be armed. The ARS is sufficient

 

Arm the police and within 10 years Gun crime on our cities streets will be 100 times worse than it is currently.

 

Furthermore its easy to sit behind a computor screen and criticise the police...if any of you think you could do better why didnt you join up.

[bigt1754]

I think Mung was talking about Operation Trident as opposed to Trident missiles. It's a Met initiative to tackle mainly black on black gun crime.

 

I think overall we've got about the right balance at the moment.

 

A lot of rank and file officers don't want to be armed, I would only envisage problems if they were suddenly told to tool up, and potentially kill someone.

 

Ah... Roger dodge.. I have heard of it, just didn't register.... I hate earlies