£15 Pigeons

[pavman]

Don’t take offence but reading between the lines Dr S, I assume you are both very young and a bit naïve (as you have yet to complete your profile) like I said its just an assumption.

 

There are never any guarantees when paying for a days woodie shooting, If you had no mobile you where at a distinct disadvantage in being able to request help or a move and that’s down to you!

 

However I would have thought you would have been checked on if only for a safety point of view. The assumption you where having a god day by the shot fired is a fair point to my mind. But I would have thought shots fired or not, a novice should not be left for more than a few hours before a check to ensure you are ok.

 

You should not assume that paying for guided days means you will have big bags of birds, try to look at the positives, you had 8 birds and many of us have been all day and not had a bird to show for it at the end, If you feel a bit sore about it, if you approach the guide in the correct manner I am sure he would want to make things right if you have a genuine grievance and possible discount you another day or even give you a freebie, these guys rely on good publicity and happy clients for business, as you have already named and shamed I guess this did not happen? Try not to let it put you off and learn from what happened, I wish you better luck in the future

[Dr Spin]

I not really that young - 47 and I have shot clay pigeons for 20 years but I'm new to game shooting. I never carry a mobile and going with my 2 mates I assumed I would be shooting with or near them anyway.

There was 8 shooters that day so hearing shots coming from my direction is not a very reliable indication, I think.

I would have been over the moon with 8 birds normally if I hadn't paid 15 quid each for them! As I have said if I had at least been moved like my mate and still got nowt that would have been enough.

When I complained to Will he said "I suppose you're after a discount then?" The impression I got from this was that he thought I was only complaining to make a few bob. I told him No and money was not mentioned after that.

I spend most of my time deerstalking but would have liked to have a couple of trips a year shooting Wood Pigeon with a professional outfit. As I have said before I cancelled my trip in October with them and will be taking my custom elsewhere in future.

[digger]

distance to my patch = 30 miles = two gallons of petrol = £10

100 shells = £ 15

day off work = £150

lunch and drink = £5

total of £180 and may only shoot six at £30 a bird.then again i could just rely on wild birds with two guys looking after eight shots over a considerable area ? nah,ill stick to doing the work ( finding the land,keeping it,looking after the farmer and his interests,doing unpaid work etc ).

photopro,why insult nttf ? hes forgotten more than you will ever know

[photopro]

photopro,why insult nttf ? hes forgotten more than you will ever know

 

So you are comparing someone you know , with someone you've never seen, spoken to or know anything about ?? I assume you've met NTTF 'cos if you haven't the statement is even dafter !!

 

It is easy for us to say what should or should not have happened when it wasn't us in Dr Spin's position - maybe some of us would have reacted differently. However this could and should have been resolved before it reached this forum.

 

photopro

[digger]

dont wish to get into a slanging match but that doesnt answer my question now does it ? i will agree that it should have been resolved before it was aired on here though.

in answer to your question,do a search on nttf`s posts.do i know him ? nope,but i do know he is a wealth of knowledge on fieldsports,statement made on the back of advice he has given me and others

[photopro]

Acknowledged

 

photopro

[lurcherboy]

Sorry to hear about your day Dr Spin.

 

 

I thought this thread was going to be about a very expensive resturant !

 

LB

 

Yo LB

You would, greedy guts.

 

Always paying top prices for your grub eh?

 

 

Dave K

 

 

Only in the robbing service stations in Coventry Dave

 

 

LB

[pavman]

photopro,why insult nttf ? hes forgotten more than you will ever know

 

So you are comparing someone you know , with someone you've never seen, spoken to or know anything about ?? I assume you've met NTTF 'cos if you haven't the statement is even dafter !!

 

photopro

 

Photopro,

 

Some folk on PW are good guys and some are not so good guys, I am grateful to count NTTF as a friend of this forum and of mine personally, having met him, shared a beer (or 3) talk often on the phone and welcome him over soon to join myself and a few other friends from PW for some Wildfowling. The man helps all and any with sound advise and his knowledge of field sports and dogs is unquestioned, Smart he is, smart ***** he is not,

 

Rant over, normal service may resume, lol

[Grakers]

Dr Spin, I note with interest that you mentioned that the guide had 8 guns out on the day in question. To me, that says it all. A guide will have to work hard to get 4 guns shooting. Once he takes on more guns, the chances are someone is gonna lose out and unfortunately on the day in question it was yourself.

 

I have been in a similar situation myself a few times. The guide in question was taking out 8-9 guns a day and priority was always given to the foreign guns because they were paying more than ourselves.

 

Unfortunately, this is the downfall of many guides in all forms of shooting - geese, pheasants, woodcock etc and can be summed up in one word - GREED !

[new to the flock]

I would like to mention that I have used the Outfitting company that you have named, and I found that Will , his Father and the other representative.....I am sorry as his name escapes me at the moment......were very fair and accomidating. We had a client that was going to be late...Will and his Dad ask the other four members of the shooting day myself and DaveK included if we would mind waiting or would we perfer to have him sent on later. We all agreed to wait the 40 minutes it took this member to arrive. We were all set up in fields that had birds flying....myself and Dave were in the wrong location so Will popped back and moved us and our gear to another field.

 

On several occasions we noticed Will or his associate checking on us with binoculars from a distance to see that we were alright. They called our cell phone to check in and continued to move birds from fields that had no shooters on them. I also know that at least one other member of the day phoned in a request to be moved and was promptly abliged. I also remember at the end of the day one of the other shooters that day had fired 130 shots for 6 pigeons and was very happy with his day.

 

What I am saying is you may have had what you feel is a bad experiance with this company, but you learned some very valuable lessons. I personnally would not right them off but give them another chance and take the knowledge that you gained with you as I am sure you would have a great time.

 

NTTF

[rarms]

Anyone else think it is perhaps a bit 'wierd' that a chap who makes his first post on a forum to complain about the forum sponsor, then only makes six posts all in that thread?

 

I am not saying anyone is not telling the truth but it can't just be me who thinks it might not be so clean cut?

[jonno 357]

Anyone else think it is perhaps a bit 'wierd' that a chap who makes his first post on a forum to complain about the forum sponsor, then only makes six posts all in that thread?

 

I am not saying anyone is not telling the truth but it can't just be me who thinks it might not be so clean cut?

 

 

I know two other members who was also on the same trip :o B)

 

Jonno

[kdubya]

Anyone else think it is perhaps a bit 'wierd' that a chap who makes his first post on a forum to complain about the forum sponsor, then only makes six posts all in that thread?

 

I am not saying anyone is not telling the truth but it can't just be me who thinks it might not be so clean cut?

 

 

Right I have tried to keep out of this as I was one of the "mates" with "spin" no its not weird perhaps its just that he got himself so wound up he felt he had no option but to post, or is some sort of conspiricy theory preferable to someones complaints?

 

I have used the company before and in truth have been well pleased with the treatment recieved, and along with another mate (not spin) decided to go again, yes expecting in august a decent couple of days shooting, however for me it was about more than shooting it was a break away from nagging wives, screaming kids, and most of all WORK, this time however we invited a decent experienced shooter of clays but inexperienced at the real thing to come with us

 

now I shoot a lot of pigeon albeit mainly in the winter but as soon as I saw the weather and the vast amounts of different stubbles available for the pigeon I thought it may be difficult, and this proved to be so,

however other things were also stacked against us namely a group of portugese who it seemed to me had wound our hosts up well and trully, and as it seemed to me allowed us to be how shall we say become second in any needs!!

 

now while spin has indicated his dissatisfaction particularly at his being left high and dry on the second day, please bear in mind that you or I with experience could have tried to improve things ie change patterns as the wind changed etc) spin was a NOVICE and he should have had the greater support, but he did not get it and to his credit he had the balls to voice that lack of support face to face at the time,

 

Its just a shame he feels he was so let down he will not return as I am sure that after his "chat" both sides learn't from it? and things may have been "better" next time

for me I learned as well?

1) not to be over expectant

2) dont assume everbody carries a mobile or indeed will enjoy being sat out in a field when nothing is happening ( I must be mad as I do) but then again a pair of bino's and some different scenery suffices for me

 

also in fairness I must point out that all shooters were offered the chance of abandoning shooting due to the weather on the second day

Cheers KW

[photopro]

Anyone else think it is perhaps a bit 'wierd' that a chap who makes his first post on a forum to complain about the forum sponsor, then only makes six posts all in that thread?

 

I am not saying anyone is not telling the truth but it can't just be me who thinks it might not be so clean cut?

 

By the same token - all that thread and not one reply from a person representing the company in question (sponsor or not).

 

There are often two sides to every story it is going to look a bit odd not hearing the second since it was allowed to get to the forum.

 

photopro

[mossy835]

Anyone else think it is perhaps a bit 'wierd' that a chap who makes his first post on a forum to complain about the forum sponsor, then only makes six posts all in that thread?

 

I am not saying anyone is not telling the truth but it can't just be me who thinks it might not be so clean cut?

 

By the same token - all that thread and not one reply from a person representing the company in question (sponsor or not).

 

There are often two sides to every story it is going to look a bit odd not hearing the second since it was allowed to get to the forum.

 

photopro

 

[kirky640]

as we that shoot the humble blue bird (pigeon) know, the wee blue bird is not as stupid as we

think because they move away in a blink.and leave us in a stink but hay enjoy chill out look around enjoy the view its not all about the kill. but it is for us that have the will and loads of fuel sandwiches cartridges and time enjoy it my friend its good to love something that you do. we and i think i speak for the most of the folks on here dont just shoot for the kill but the thrill of it. quality not quantity i tell you me fine learning friend enjoy and learn

cheers kirky

[pin]

Bang on kirky, every single time I see that teltale setting of wings and I think "he's on" and start getting ready to stand and shoot, I get the same rush I did the first time I shot one

[Topgunners]

Anyone else think it is perhaps a bit 'wierd' that a chap who makes his first post on a forum to complain about the forum sponsor, then only makes six posts all in that thread?

 

I am not saying anyone is not telling the truth but it can't just be me who thinks it might not be so clean cut?

 

By the same token - all that thread and not one reply from a person representing the company in question (sponsor or not).

 

There are often two sides to every story it is going to look a bit odd not hearing the second since it was allowed to get to the forum.

 

photopro

 

Come on WILL.

 

I know you don't post very often but I am sure without any response to this post it will not be doing your reputationany good at all.

 

Dave K

[Dr Spin]

In answer to Rarms questions I have not posted on this forum before because I very rarely go pigeon Shooting. As I said I plan to go a couple of times a year. I am also a member of Air Gun Forum, Airgunbbs,Hunters World and two deerstalking ones and I rarely post on those. I mainly read them for information and pose a question when I'm stuck or feel really p***ed off.

I have received a lot of good advice with this thread and I feel the experience has helped me be more discerning in future.

If anyone doubts my story there are two members of this forum who were stood next to me while I complained (And I wish had told me to bring my mobile!) My mate Kdubya did not have a very good first day as he was the last to get set up at 1pm and the first to get taken down. He like myself wanted to keep shooting but because our other mate had complained and asked to finish they came and collected everybody up together!

Rearranging the patterns would not help since there was not a single pigeon in the air for most of the afternoon.

As I have said already the weather was atrocious on the morning but on the afternoon it turned out beautiful albeit quiet.

I know from Deer that you cannot predict wild animals - it was the treatment I received from the humans I was complaining about!

[rarms]

Mate, my comment was intended half in jest, but also as a bit serious being that anyone can say anything on the internet.

 

 

You are clearly who you say you are so I apologise if I have caused any offense

 

 

Kyle

[Will Beasley]

In answer to Rarms questions I have not posted on this forum before because I very rarely go pigeon Shooting. As I said I plan to go a couple of times a year. I am also a member of Air Gun Forum, Airgunbbs,Hunters World and two deerstalking ones and I rarely post on those. I mainly read them for information and pose a question when I'm stuck or feel really p***ed off.

I have received a lot of good advice with this thread and I feel the experience has helped me be more discerning in future.

If anyone doubts my story there are two members of this forum who were stood next to me while I complained (And I wish had told me to bring my mobile!) My mate Kdubya did not have a very good first day as he was the last to get set up at 1pm and the first to get taken down. He like myself wanted to keep shooting but because our other mate had complained and asked to finish they came and collected everybody up together!

Rearranging the patterns would not help since there was not a single pigeon in the air for most of the afternoon.

As I have said already the weather was atrocious on the morning but on the afternoon it turned out beautiful albeit quiet.

I know from Deer that you cannot predict wild animals - it was the treatment I received from the humans I was complaining about!

 

Right,

 

Lets lay this down.

 

After blasting me and my "outfit" personally on here its not a case of "you not wanting to come back with me again" its now a case of - I would never take your booking if you paid me a grand a day. You stand no chance.

 

Its your own fault you didnt take a mobile, any "Dr" with an ounce of common sense would have one with them. 99.99% of my clients bring one. I'm not there to nanny you and wipe your ****, I'm there to try and get you some pigeons. If you shoot yourself in the foot or fall in a ditch thats your own problem. You're a grown man. Both your friends had their phones.

 

Last weeks situation was unfortunate with weather conditions and the sheer amount of food available on the stubbles for the birds but you were given the opportunity NOT TO SHOOT on the 2nd day by both me and the old man, and to get in the car and go home. You were told it would be tough going. You chose to shoot.

 

Our job is hard enough as it is without this kind of ****. I've taken PLENTY of people out from the forum and I can hopefully say most of them went away pretty happy. I do stipulate on the website there are NO GUAANTEES, and no discounts. If I had somewhere better to move you to I would have done, and what you probably dont realise is that me and Bruce do our ******** to try and keep the birds moving for the guns behind the scenes, and there IS a lot of effort put in. In fact we have to put in 10 times more effort on a hard day. On the easy days when the birds are flying/decoying well we sit back in the vehicles and have as much fun watching as the guns do shooting. It only became apparent to me when you moaned before going home that you had no mobile with you. As I explained most if not all the guys who come here have a phone on them. So if I'm not getting a phone call from them I presume everything is OK and they're getting some shots and they're happy, and if I dont here from you mine and Bruces time is spent thrashing round in the vehicles either moving birds or moving clients who DO have a phone with them and who have called us up to say things arent going well.

 

I wish you well with Gary and Iain. They're good guys and good guides too from what I hear. However I do hope that they live up to your expectations. As I mentioned to you when you left..."A Pigeon Guide ( or any professional guide for that matter ) is ONLY AS GOOD AS HIS LAST DAYS SHOOTING. Thankfully, Ive got an excellent reputation, and enough regular clients to keep me flat out and I'm constantly turning away business. Every day the phone rings with new clients wanting to come out with me. I've had some of Gary and Iains clients come out with me who'd been out with them & weren't happy with their day. I'm sure they have had some of my clients who have not been happy with their day with me.... and it looks like they got another one coming. It happens. YOU CANT PLEASE ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME.

 

Now on another note, on the first day I sat and watched you on that bean field and in the 10 minutes I sat there and eat my lunch you had 12 hots and pricked ONE Pigeon. You fired three shots over four occassions when birds decoyed, and I appreciate you are a newby to Pigeon shooting but its your own fault you cant shoot that your birds cost £15 each. I know for a fact that if I'd have had your place on the first day 50 birds would not have been an impossibilty, then you have the bare faced cheek to come on here and whine about my service cos you shot like a drain. To top it all off I'm amazed any birds decoyed at all as you sat there with your head above then net all day. God knows why we even bothered building a hide for you.

 

@ Gary and Iain...good luck with this one.

 

@ Hawkeye and Kdubya...... are you two still coming for the dates you have booked in October after this fiasco? If not I'll scrub the booking and take someone else.

[Evilv]

Chuckle chuckle.

 

This is almost as much fun as shooting. LOL.

[jonno 357]

No a very professional attitude. I was hoping this would be resolved in a more sensible way but obviously beasley is going down the childish route as I expected when someone has a dig and criticises there outfit

 

I have heard some very good reports from people who have used this outfit an I was going to use this winter at the least

 

Its a pity people have to lower themselves to the playground approach to get the point over

 

Jonno

[Evilv]

No a very professional attitude. I was hoping this would be resolved in a more sensible way but obviously beasley is going down the childish route as I expected when someone has a dig and criticises there outfit

 

I have heard some very good reports from people who have used this outfit an I was going to use this winter at the least

 

Its a pity people have to lower themselves to the playground approach to get the point over

 

Jonno

 

 

Aw man come of it. They've been slagged off by a disgruntled novice who can't even remember his phone. What's childish about Beasely's response? He's put his side in one post (against several from the other quarter) and told him not to bother coming back. Fair comment, I'd say. There are two sides to this and I know which I'm more persuaded by. If Dr Spin isn't happy, he should put it down to experience and make other arrangements for his future pigeon shooting. I don't know how many thousand hours I've spent hiding in ditches waiting in vain for a sight of something to shoot at. It's half of what the sport is about, I'd say, and half of that was brought on by my own inability to sit still and keep my head down. Now, like Grasshopper, I've learned some patience and a little bit of Zen.

 

 

Hey ho - it's stopped raining and I'm off out for the rest of the day with the rifle.

[Dr Spin]

Will,

I am a bit concerned that you are not worried about clients injuring themselves when shooting with you. When we are dealing with firearms and people left alone in fields all day I would have thought safety would be a top priority. Apart from the moral responsibility you will also find under The Health and Safety Act 1974 you have a duty of care to your paying customers.

 

I take your point about concealment but most of day 1 I had a poncho fixed across the top of the hide because of the rain and so nobody would have been able to see me. In fact a couple of times I was actually stood up stretching my legs and I stood still while birds came into the pattern so I don't think that one is written in stone anyway. Obviously movement is more important.

 

As a beginner with a brand new (unfired) shotgun I admit I was a bit rusty the first day but I don't agree with the number of misses you quoted. In any event I did not complain about the pigeon numbers on Day 1 but the fact we were unceremoniously rounded up at 6pm despite the fact there were loads of birds coming in.

 

On Day 2 You told me to keep below the hide and this I did but with no pigeons about it made no difference. Of the 8 I got one I shot off a branch and one I shot at long range off the ground sighting the shotgun as a rifle so there's probably 2 more than a lot of novices get.

 

I admit that I should have had a mobile with me but I was upset when I heard that Kdubya was visited and moved when he didn't ring you either. I thought I did the right thing and voiced my complaints to your face and in a calm polite manner. I was hoping you might have handled the situation better and took something constructive away from my points to improve your service. But from your reply on the day and this one on the forum it doesn't seem like it.

 

I've had my say now so I'll let the matter drop and besides I haven't got a spare grand mentioned to book again!