Burglars shot

[barrelsniffer]

If the laws were relaxed to allow "any" force necessary to protect your self "once they cross that door way inside your property" i think burglars would think twice before breaking in...but as said they deserve what they get..low life thieving scum...i hope the chap is let off as he should be.

[gazzthompson]

Is this standard for such incidents? to be arrested? What if he has used a knife?

Edited September 3, 2012 by gazzthompson

[Browning 425 clay hunter]

I'm really angry with the owner of the property that was burgled.

 

Aren't we always taught to go for HEADSHOTS. Bum, belly, beak BANG.

 

There is no right answer to this until YOU have been in the homeowners position. In an isolated house with 4 pieces of **** braking in with your missus next to you. I know I'd be grabbing for the 12G. If this country's government had any balls, self defence would be legitimate and maybe we could have a culling season, you know to 'thin the numbers'of these scroats

 

I wish the homeowner involved the best of luck

[roadkill]

Maybe if the home owner stuck to the law , then we all could be reading about two home owners killed in a burglary. Prison or death not really a hard choice is it.

[storme37]

if i were on the jury he would get a not guilty. hopefully if it goes to court the jury would see it that way. if jurys stop handing in guilty verdicts for this sort of thing the laws would prob be ammended if getting a conviction was near impossible. a bit like convicting a burglar.

[al4x]

I'll put the suggestion out there that if they walked away then they weren't shot at under 30 yards, so either they have one wopper of a sitting room or he shot them outside the houses. There is more to this as his partner got arrested as well and that wouldn't have happened if he shot them, however it is standard procedure to arrest in this situation and then work out the full facts, they then get cleared if it is true self defence. There is no issue with harming intruders if it is self defence. However you can't shoot them after the event while running away or if you are no longer threatened.

[denniswebb]

Unfortunatly living in the country ain't that safe no more, there isn't the local police, most have been withdrawn to more populated areas, that is what has happened in our area. Criminals are more aggressive and the fact that they were 4 handed shows they were after something big to nick, i don't know if they were going to break into the house or steal some farming equipment, but you just have to have some form of protection, in a remote area alarms are no good you have to have dogs or something handy. My mate shot a pikie who was hiding in the shadows of a barn, but the idiot was smoking a fag, he shot the fag and peppered him, the pikie phoned the police and he said he thought it was a fox, the copper said what smoking a fag, he said he thought foxes had red eyes. He still has his guns, i suspect they where shot outside the house on the farm, if so he will be in trouble, the system doesn't like people taking the law into there own hands .

 

Dennis

[HDAV]

Hopefully there will be an update on the situation soon but it's impossible to know the intentions of an intruder. Fear of crime is the factor. Something does sound odd but it always does

[gibspoon]

Innocent until proven guilty ! correct ?

 

Justcedited my post...some stupid mistakes made it read bloody awfully!!

[Muddy Funker]

I'm going to reply then read the thread.

 

1, Is this going to be in the public interest to prosecute? Doubt it as most decent people will be chearing his actions I imagine.

2, Was the force used reasonable in the circumstances? I'd go with yes, remote farmhouse, hugely outnumbered, only fired twice was it?

 

If this ever makes court which I doubt it will I'd hope a jury would clear him.

 

I don't want to see a country where this type of instant justice for whatever reason becomes the norm. What I would like to see is a rule brought in that is loud and clear.

If someone is in your house that shouldn't be then they are fair game for whatever force you deem fit. Give some power back to the hardworking homeowner that's who the law should protect, not the criminal.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Muddy Funker

[walshie]

I think sitting at a keyboard in the cold light of day it is impossible to think how you would feel in those circumstances. Hopefully my dog and baseball bat would sort the problem, but 4 men in your house? Who knows what was going through his head, poor bloke.

[onefulham]

My wife worked for Beds police and one of her friends was involved in the Tony Martin case, the police were bending over backwards to make him say he was shooting as a last resort in his own defence, but he would not back down from the argument that it was his home and if you come in he will shoot you, they were scum so I am not defending them, but an earlier argument stands of someone say drunk going to the wrong house, I think we have the law right here on balance, you have to prove you did the right thing, surely even fellow shooters dont want anyone just blasting away at say the paperboy ??!!

I do agree though the police and justice system are making it a climate where people feel they are unprotected and criminals rights ride over the law abiding.

[Matty7247]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9516552/Farm-worker-and-wife-arrested-after-burglars-shot.html

 

A little bit more information, the gun was legal, and like the story says, seems to be alot of thefts around. With police cuts as they are, they will struggle!!

 

Have a look, see what you think.

[Paul223]

I'm finding the ages of the burglars a bit strange, 23, 27, 31 and 33, wonder if they will turn out to be siblings? May be of the traveller type?

[Vipa]

My god, I wasn't aware of the Hussain case in '99.... the world has gone mad (or should I say Britain!)

[thegazbo]

A mate of mine was pulled from his bathroom and tied up to his snooker table and had 3 kettles of boiling water poured over him,

Now he isn't a sgc holder but if you ask him he will say "if I had a gun not one of those ******** would have a heartbeat again".

He has never been back to his house since.

But of course we all know that the scumbags have all the rights in this country and the innocent will have to stay in the shadows in fear of upsetting the liberals, who seem to think that poor scumbag not having a father is an excuse for not being a hard working honest person who pays tax.

[Robl]

I do agree though the police and justice system are making it a climate where people feel they are unprotected and criminals rights ride over the law abiding.

 

5 years ago I would have agreed with you.

 

But more recently I’m seeing a big change.

There’s been a few high profile cases recently where burglars have been stabbed and the homeowner has been ‘not charged’.

 

I’d still like to see a lot more stamping down on petty criminals and suchlike.

We just don’t have laws to deal with the repeat offenders.

Perhaps we need a three-strikes law such as they have in the states.

But our jails are full – and we don’t have space to make new ones.

I think they best plan is to sell our criminals to the US where they make a profit from them.

[Pole Star]

Any one on PW remember the case of a young Scottish student studying in the USA & got drunk one night & was knocking on peoples doors trying to get some one to call him & his mate a taxi ? . Do you remember the out come ? a RAMBO emptied his pistol on him by firing through his door at the man ! is that justified ? for a silly young drunk to be shot down in cold blood ? . NO !

 

 

I got a bad feeling there are a few Rambo's posting here ! ENGAGE BRAIN BEFORE PULLING TRIGGER !

[al4x]

But more recently I’m seeing a big change.

There’s been a few high profile cases recently where burglars have been stabbed and the homeowner has been ‘not charged’.

 

 

I think you will find they are mostly charged then the charges either get dropped or it goes to court as process.

 

Simple facts are if you use something to hand in self defence then you always have been ok. Sleep with a loaded gun by the bed is not ok or shooting them when you no longer need to defend yourself. The law is clear the facts usually less so, as polestar says rambos be careful you might end up shooting an entirely innocent person.

[Robl]

I think you will find they are mostly charged then the charges either get dropped or it goes to court as process.

 

 

I concede that point.

 

I may have used incorrect terminology, but the point was that the self-defender has come out of the whole situation with no criminal conviction, caution or other blemish on their character.

[Matty7247]

I think there is a big difference between cases, this guy shoot at people who were trying to break into his house, after numerous break ins? What are the full details about the USA thing, did they keep getting burgled, or was it, as you put it, a 'Rambo' type? I think unless people know the full story, it is very easy to comment.

[denniswebb]

Hopefully the crown prosecution won't charge, but it looks as if they were shot outside the house, bacause as we all know shoot someone at 20ft don't walk away. If that is the case even if they were shot in the front he will still be prosecuted. And no doubt the criminals will sue for injuries sustained whilst in pursuit of the trade.....It is unlawful to gun someone down, fire a warning shot mabe, then shoot if they still approach, but we are talking as if the situation was calm and collected, in the dark, a rush of addrellion anything can happen. I have been attacked and then saw the other guy on the floor and wondered what happened you are in shock.

[Zulu]

Best not to speculate till full facts are known .

[Guest cookoff013]

Do you think we could justify, 4 cartridges in S2 shotguns?

the bit that really concerns me is there are 4 burglars, not one, 4. it takes 2 people to nick a TV, microwave. even less to steal other valubles.

 

when will it start getting silly, like 10 burglars trying to break into one house?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-16290860

this is a burgulary that was 20miles away. the guy died. if you read the report, it allways assumes there is more than one burglar.

a botched burgulary, that ended up in murder.

 

he was bludgend to death.

[SakoQuad]

Interesting how there is such a common expectation that the burgled will be punished and the burglars get off scot free ( I may be exaggerating slightly but that's the sense I have of the common view on this thread). In fact the real evidence seems to be different - I found this on-line in an article on the subject of convictions in self defence cases;

 

How many cases?

An “informal trawl” by the CPS suggested that between 1990 and 2005 there were only 11 prosecutions of people who had attacked intruders in houses, commercial premises or private land. Only 7 of those appeared to have resulted from domestic burglaries.

Examples of prosecutions included a case where a man lay in wait for a burglar on commercial premises, caught him, beat him, threw him into a pit and set him alight.

Examples of decisions not to prosecute included a case where a woman took a baseball bat off a burglar and hit him over the head, fracturing his skull.

Using a gun will ALWAYS result in an arrest but doesn't always end in a conviction as even if the case goes to court juries are reluctant to find a householder guilty if the defendant can show (say) they acted in self defence. This does not include chasing someone and then beating them with a cricket bat (Hussain) or shooting an intruder in the back as they attempt to flee the premises (Martin).

I sincerely believe that householders have the right to defend their family, self and property and that intruders pretty much deserve what they get, if they weren't trying to steal from someone's house they wouldn't risk getting hurt.

A bit more thought should be given to the idea of using a gun to do that than appears to be the case from some posts here. Shooting someone to death in your own home might just be a bit tougher to live with than some people seem to think.