Legal Difference Between .22 and .22 RF

[CoolhandMal]

My son is not a member on here however,he has a slot for a .22 RF,the question is what is the difference between the std .22 and the .22RF and could he be breaking the law by purchasing a .22 when a .22RF is on his Cert?

Your comments would be greatfully received,Cheers

 

 

[walshie]

A .22 is a centrefire, so he wouldn't be able to buy one if his slot says .22RF anyway.

[Scully]

A RFD wouldn't sell him anything other than that which is stipulated on your sons certificate,which is RF.This includes short,long and Magnum;all RF's.

[wymberley]

I'd have thought that in a legal sense 22 is simply a generic term for any calibre the diameter of which is 0.22+".

 

I don't think it's necessarily a CF and can't see a RFD selling a WMR against a 22RF certificate.

 

Although not a correct legal term, in common usage a 22 is usually taken as a 22LR and any variation from that is normally additionally defined.

[walshie]

I'd have thought that in a legal sense 22 is simply a generic term for any calibre the diameter of which is 0.22+".

 

I don't think it's necessarily a CF and can't see a RFD selling a WMR against a 22RF certificate.

 

Although not a correct legal term, in common usage a 22 is usually taken as a 22LR and any variation from that is normally additionally defined.

 

.22 is the size of the actual bullet, yes, but IMO a .22 is a centrefire, unless specified as a RF. My RFD would happily sell me a WMR on my .22RF slot, as I have already asked this question. But the OP states his son has a slot for .22RF, so buying anything other than a RF would be impossible.

[fruitloop]

My son is not a member on here however,he has a slot for a .22 RF,the question is what is the difference between the std .22 and the .22RF and could he be breaking the law by purchasing a .22 when a .22RF is on his Cert?

Your comments would be greatfully received,Cheers

what do you regard as a std .22 is it the .22lr

 

as .22 is the caliber and the rf stands for rim fire so eny of the .22 /wmr/lr/and short

[Asa Bear]

My son is not a member on here however,he has a slot for a .22 RF,the question is what is the difference between the std .22 and the .22RF and could he be breaking the law by purchasing a .22 when a .22RF is on his Cert?

Your comments would be greatfully received,Cheers

 

May I make a suggestion, get your son to join the forum. I have been shooting a little over a year and have probably learnt as much from PWers as I have from my mentor & coach.

[wymberley]

.22 is the size of the actual bullet, yes, but IMO a .22 is a centrefire, unless specified as a RF. My RFD would happily sell me a WMR on my .22RF slot, as I have already asked this question. But the OP states his son has a slot for .22RF, so buying anything other than a RF would be impossible.

 

Have to say, I've never ever heard of a 22 CF just called a 22, this being the sole preserve of the RF and usually the LR. The CFs in my experience are always called by their calibre or abbreviations/nicknames thereof.

 

You're also lucky (?) with your choice of RFD - "If you want a 22 Magnum apply for one. If you want a 22 LR, they're on the rack".

[walshie]

Have to say, I've never ever heard of a 22 CF just called a 22, this being the sole preserve of the RF and usually the LR. The CFs in my experience are always called by their calibre or abbreviations/nicknames thereof.

 

You're also lucky (?) with your choice of RFD - "If you want a 22 Magnum apply for one. If you want a 22 LR, they're on the rack".

 

As I say, this was just my humble opinion, but a RF is a RF and I was simply reporting my RFD's stance on it. Believe me, if there was anything iffy he wouldn't do it. He's a belt and braces man, quite rightly.

[Dekers]

A .22RF is a short, lr, wmr, cap, long, shotshell and whatever else from over the years.

 

They are ALL .22RF(although the bullets are NOT all .22), what any RFD is prepared to sell you if your FAC says .22RF has been debated many a time and the answer is different from region to region and RFD to RFD.

 

The fact is, RF is a generic term for Rim Fire and covers ALL the above, so you should be able to buy any of the above, I blame the Police regions, if they mean WMR or LR or Short etc then thats what they should write on your FAC, if they are happy with RF then you should be able to get whatever .22 RF you want!

[theosmith]

in essex 22rf means lr 22wmr means wmr i have a slot for both they yes they are same calible and both rimfire with different powers

 

and when someones says to me they have a 22 i asume he talking about an airrifle

[wymberley]

I suppose if this thread shows us anything, it's to always say what you mean.

[CoolhandMal]

Thanks Guys you have all been very helpful,as usual !

 

I shall get my son to join as soon as he is ready without a doubt.!

[Scully]

I don't think it's necessarily a CF and can't see a RFD selling a WMR against a 22RF certificate.

Reading through the other posts it would seem to depend on where you live regarding the above.When I applied for a .22RF many moons ago it was with the full intention of buying a WMR.It went on my ticket as .22RF as did the ammo,and neither my RFD queried it,nor my FEO who wasn't even aware it was a magnum until I applied for a variation for another .22RF some years later.It was never an issue even then.

[Muddy Funker]

My cert states 22 Rifle.

 

It doesn't mention RF or anything like that.

 

I take it I can't go out an buy a .223CF then?

 

Not that I'm going to try.

[Bewsher500]

if any FLO puts ".22" on a certificate then they shouldn't have a job IMO

 

If you apply for a .22lr that should be what you get. not .22rf

If you apply for a .22 centrefire you should have been a damn site more specific in your request than to be allowed to choose from a .22 hornet all the way up to 22-250 and 220 swift

One is little more than a pumped up rimfire the other is not allowed on some ranges because of the MV/ME

if you cant decide between .222 and .223 then you haven't thought about it long enough. decide if you want to chuck bullets above 50gr or not or go find one you like then put your variation/application in.

 

I can see why it happens on larger cartridges/calibres, I dont think it is right but the differences higher up the centrefire food chain are not as pronounced.

A 6mm BR is not that different to a .243

 

you are not applying for a "calibre" you are applying for a cartridge designation.

other wise I will apply for a 7-08 next time just so I can get a 7mm RUM

Edited October 6, 2012 by Bewsher500

[Kes]

Maybe he should ring his FEO and ask? He's either ecpecting a rimfir or a centefire and if its wrong its worth sorting.

[hillmouse]

Shoddy work from the issuing authority I would say.

 

The ammunition and rifle will clearly state .22 WMR or .22 LR, so should the certificate.

 

As an RFD myself I would not sell you a .22 WMR on a certificate unless it clearly states those exact letters.

[njc110381]

if any FLO puts ".22" on a certificate then they shouldn't have a job IMO

 

I think that statement is ok for a new shooter, but experienced shots can and do get given freedom. There's nothing wrong with that at all. .22rf means .22rf, not LR, not WMR, RIMFIRE! So he can buy any rimfire legally in my view.

 

I once had .30 rifle listed on my FAC. That gave me the freedom to buy anything from .30-30 to a .30-378 Weatherby. The firearms department were quite accepting of my needs which happened to be a .30 magnum of some form, but it was a slot which I never filled. It later became my .338WM.

 

Various forces offer various levels of freedom. In my experience Gloucestershire have been well at the fairer end of the scale since my experience with larger calibres has grown. And rightly so. If I ask for a .22 I'd expect to get a .22 slot, perhaps accepting it to have rf or cf listed for their clarification - if I can shoot a .338 safely with open conditions on both land and quarry then I sure as hell can shoot any .22 you can throw at me without putting the public at risk.

[wymberley]

 

Shoddy work from the issuing authority I would say.

 

 

Which is nothing to do with the FLO and that authority is none other than the person who signed it.

 

 

I think that statement is ok for a new shooter, but experienced shots can and do get given freedom. There's nothing wrong with that at all. .22rf means .22rf, not LR, not WMR, RIMFIRE! So he can buy any rimfire legally in my view.

 

I once had .30 rifle listed on my FAC. That gave me the freedom to buy anything from .30-30 to a .30-378 Weatherby. The firearms department were quite accepting of my needs which happened to be a .30 magnum of some form, but it was a slot which I never filled. It later became my .338WM.

 

Various forces offer various levels of freedom. In my experience Gloucestershire have been well at the fairer end of the scale since my experience with larger calibres has grown. And rightly so. If I ask for a .22 I'd expect to get a .22 slot, perhaps accepting it to have rf or cf listed for their clarification - if I can shoot a .338 safely with open conditions on both land and quarry then I sure as hell can shoot any .22 you can throw at me without putting the public at risk.

 

Sorry, can't agree. This is precisely how we got in the current mess - people diverting from the system at will. Guns should always be properly defined and, as we've all been saying, all conditions, etc, etc should be to a national standard.

[Vince Green]

In general terms .22 means a rimfire I am sure. Years ago it was quite normal to get things expressed in general terms but now they all want to get it all down to the finest detail but what does it matter?

 

I have seen all sorts over the years.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Vince Green

[bedwards1966]

if any FLO puts ".22" on a certificate then they shouldn't have a job IMO

 

Why - what harm is it doing? The system is supposedly there to protect the public, putting '.22' on a certificate, which may allow someone to buy anything from a .22 short to a .22-250, is not an issue. If someone is safe with a gun they're safe, so why mess around by limiting them to a specific round?

 

Shoddy work from the issuing authority I would say.

 

The ammunition and rifle will clearly state .22 WMR or .22 LR, so should the certificate.

 

As an RFD myself I would not sell you a .22 WMR on a certificate unless it clearly states those exact letters.

 

If it says '.22RF', then you are allowed to sell that person a .22 rim-fire. As a .22 WMR is a rim-fire, why won't you sell them one if they've got permission to buy a rim-fire?

 

Sorry, can't agree. This is precisely how we got in the current mess - people diverting from the system at will. Guns should always be properly defined and, as we've all been saying, all conditions, etc, etc should be to a national standard.

 

If slots are loosely defined it does make things very simple, it's quite clear on what you can and can't have on a slot. While I'm not saying it's wise to apply for a .22 long rifle, then buy a .22-250 on the '.22' slot your given, that's only to keep your licencing authority happy. If I want to buy a .22lr, then when I've got a variation and go to a shop change my mind and realize that a .22 short/.22 WMR etc would suit my needs better, surely it's better to be able to get what I want then and there on the loosely defined slot, rather than send off my certificate for the police to mess around wasting time and money changing a couple of letters?

What harm is done by having loose slots?

[njc110381]

But the calibre is defined? The parent case isn't, but just how precise do these things have to be? I agree it makes sense for a new shooter to be helped through the process by being fixed to a given cartridge but what does it achieve for the rest of us? What you're requesting is that things are more restrictive which is just the situation that should be avoided! If you're fit to hold a firearm of the maximum potential of a given calibre then why should you be limited to one variation of it? There's no need.

 

Edit... Sorry, that was aimed at Wymberley

Edited October 6, 2012 by njc110381

[Thunderbird]

Mine says 22RF, 17RF not 22LR, 17HMR for the very reason that I asked for that generic classification in case on a whim I decided to get one of the less well known RF calibres.

[wymberley]

 

 

If slots are loosely defined it does make things very simple, it's quite clear on what you can and can't have on a slot. While I'm not saying it's wise to apply for a .22 long rifle, then buy a .22-250 on the '.22' slot your given, that's only to keep your licencing authority happy. If I want to buy a .22lr, then when I've got a variation and go to a shop change my mind and realize that a .22 short/.22 WMR etc would suit my needs better, surely it's better to be able to get what I want then and there on the loosely defined slot, rather than send off my certificate for the police to mess around wasting time and money changing a couple of letters?

What harm is done by having loose slots.

 

 

So what you're saying in effect that this quite important document should be worded to enable anyone who really hasn't a clue what they want to go shopping for a lethal firearm. Sorry, but nah!