Sport or slaughter ?

[anser2]

It amazes me that anyione can compair shooting big bags of game ( 100+ and yes I do regard this as a big bag , let alone the 400 + some are talking about ). with shooting wood pigeons is unbeleveable. Pigeons do a huge amount of damage to farming interests. Were they a game bird then again I would reduce my bag considerably. When I am pheasant shooting a dozen birds is plenty for a day and the same with wildfowl. When i reach that total I have enough for my own use and its time to stop.

 

And Colin you ask where do the game on my shoot come from , this is Norfolk and the county drips with wild game without the addition of rearing.

 

Harnser is right we need to bring under control big busness game shooting or one day the public backlash wwill stop all game rearing , and if you think that is a bir far fetched go to Holland where game rearing has been banned.

 

As a wise shooter once said to me " when you cant remember each individual shot you have had in a day then you have shot too many "

Edited October 17, 2012 by anser2

[rimfire4969]

It amazes me that anyione can compair shooting big bags of game ( 100+ and yes I do regard this as a big bag , let alone the 400 + some are talking about ). with shooting wood pigeons is unbeleveable. Pigeons do a huge amount of damage to farming interests. Were they a game bird then again I would reduce my bag considerably. When I am pheasant shooting a dozen birds is plenty for a day

 

As a wise shooter once said to me " when you cant remember each individual shot you have had in a day then you have shot too many "

I am not sure you get this, a 100 bird day is between all the guns, when I have a 100 bird day a shoot maybe 12 birds and I remember everyone because I pick my birds and that I think I the main point.

[Scully]

It amazes me that anyione can compair shooting big bags of game ( 100+ and yes I do regard this as a big bag , let alone the 400 + some are talking about ). with shooting wood pigeons is unbeleveable. Pigeons do a huge amount of damage to farming interests. Were they a game bird then again I would reduce my bag considerably. When I am pheasant shooting a dozen birds is plenty for a day and the same with wildfowl. When i reach that total I have enough for my own use and its time to stop.

 

And Colin you ask where do the game on my shoot come from , this is Norfolk and the county drips with wild game without the addition of rearing.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make here.

You consider 100 to be a big bag,which is fair enough,and I understand that,but why do you find it unbelievable some make comparisons between pheasant or pigeon shooting?Admittedly,one is carried out in the guise of pest control,but both are regarded as 'sport',a term I've never liked but that's beside the point.It is the shooting of birds 'for sport';killing for fun or enjoyment, which the antis object to.I'm sure the antis will be over the moon to find you only shoot a dozen or so birds a day.

When you've reached your total and it's time to stop,then fine,that's your choice;but before you criticise anyone else ask yourself why you shoot birds.Are you doing it because you enjoy it,or is someone forcing you to shoot birds against your will? You don't need to shoot birds to eat;you could buy a chicken from your local supermarket,so why are you shooting birds?The answer is staring you in the face.If you don't enjoy it,then stop doing it;someone else will be more than willing to take your place I would think.

One dozen,or fifty dozen...makes no difference to antis,neither does enjoyment by degrees.

[ColinF]

And Colin you ask where do the game on my shoot come from , this is Norfolk and the county drips with wild game without the addition of rearing.

 

Are you saying that no reared birds are released in Norfolk???

 

This has also been the worst summer in living memory for the breeding of wild pheasants and partridges. I haven't seen a single brood of chicks this year on our Northamptonshire shoot, and everone I speak to, including professional gamekeepers, say the same. So, unless Norfolk missed the summer that everyone else had, wild stocks will be significantly lower that in a "normal" year.

[leeds chimp]

Are you saying that no reared birds are released in Norfolk???

 

This has also been the worst summer in living memory for the breeding of wild pheasants and partridges. I haven't seen a single brood of chicks this year on our Northamptonshire shoot, and everone I speak to, including professional gamekeepers, say the same. So, unless Norfolk missed the summer that everyone else had, wild stocks will be significantly lower that in a "normal" year.

 

Watched this thread with interest and here is my 2p

 

Personally I dont see the appeal of 300+ day sport on pheasants..

I had done quite of bit of beating and the amount of birds we flush over the guns reminds me of a clay day on some drives ...UNLESS the person on the peg chooses the shots he/she takes and pick the targets out that test him/her...

 

Pigeons are vermin and cause alot of damage to crops ete and therefore need to be "controlled"

Game birds are in a different league

 

I would love to join a rough shoot style set up that the OP states as to me personally ..

that "type" of shooting is more about the company and the testing targets than anything else not the bag size...

Just because you have £XXXX in the bank does that mean you can shoot 200 birds to yourself....

[al4x]

The days of 200 to a gun are well gone that would be some of the really fanatical old style game shots / royalty. As usual there is ill informed tosh about anser the wild bird Norfolk shoots are well on the antis hit list as they don't like predator control, your 12 birds are either lucky or ex release birds from somewhere else. If releasing was banned they would soon die out with there being no game keepers about. Last time I did the maths 10 guns shooting 12 each equated to one of. The bags you don't like so have a word with yourself.

When you look at bag size we aim for 200 but that is a full day with more land to go at than you can do in 3 days its far from any similarity to clay shooting. Anyone who beats and thinks guns shoot everything needs to either open their eyes or actually go.

[castletyne]

this is not the type of post tto have on a shooting forum

 

Can the mods not just remove it

Edited October 18, 2012 by glen fox

[Scully]

Watched this thread with interest and here is my 2p

 

Personally I dont see the appeal of 300+ day sport on pheasants..

I had done quite of bit of beating and the amount of birds we flush over the guns reminds me of a clay day on some drives ...UNLESS the person on the peg chooses the shots he/she takes and pick the targets out that test him/her...

 

Pigeons are vermin and cause alot of damage to crops ete and therefore need to be "controlled"

Game birds are in a different league

 

I would love to join a rough shoot style set up that the OP states as to me personally ..

that "type" of shooting is more about the company and the testing targets than anything else not the bag size...

Just because you have £XXXX in the bank does that mean you can shoot 200 birds to yourself....

Agree entirely,with perhaps the exception of the 'cay shoot' aspect,but as I've never witnessed a driven shoot in your area then I'll take your word for it.Where I live there are two shoots which back onto each other;the smaller one puts down 3,500 birds per season or thereabouts,the other puts down towards 40,000 each season.I have witnessed shooting on both,and can say the more selective shots come from the bigger shoot,but that's only because the terrain on that shoot offers the more challenging shots.

The smaller shoot delivers bags of an average of about 400 each day,divided between 20 guns,the figure is slightly higher on the bigger shoot but there are more guns,less drives,but ore days.

The highest number of birds shot was one beaters day,when we shot almost 500 between 28 of us.Math's was never my strong point,so you can work it out.

I'll agree,pigeons do need controlling,but you wont find anyone in the country who does it unwillingly.Have yet to see a post from someone who says they didn't want to do it;as you'll possibly know,it is great FUN.

[al4x]

personally I find wildfowling far harder to defend.............

[docholiday]

Harnser’s post raises suspicion. There is no need to provoke game shooters unless of course you want to set a hare running so that the anti’s who watch this site can use it as evidence.

 

I question the motive of Harnser’s post. If he is genuine then he lacks judgement and if he is a troll then he may have to try harder to get anyone on this thread to compromise themselves.

 

I would say to those who come onto this post to be very careful and aware of who might be reading it and why.

 

Your 4 posts indicates your complete knowledge of the poster who has been a regular contributor to this site for many years, to use the word troll in this case is offensive and I would suggest you spend some time looking around this site before you come out with such half baked dribble

[al4x]

Your 4 posts indicates your complete knowledge of the poster who has been a regular contributor to this site for many years, to use the word troll in this case is offensive and I would suggest you spend some time looking around this site before you come out with such half baked dribble

 

troll may be the wrong word wanting to start a thread on a subject that will get argued about is possibly a better phrase

[sitsinhedges]

Your 4 posts indicates your complete knowledge of the poster who has been a regular contributor to this site for many years, to use the word troll in this case is offensive and I would suggest you spend some time looking around this site before you come out with such half baked dribble

 

Maybe 'silly old man who's marbles are going' might be a better term. This thread should be gone and anyone who shares such stupid ideas might like to share them on the LACS site instead where they will be more appreciated.

[Dunkield]

With a few exceptions I thought it was a reasonable debate - I don't quite get why people get so emotional about the subject.

[sitsinhedges]

With a few exceptions I thought it was a reasonable debate - I don't quite get why people get so emotional about the subject.

 

Because all it is managing to achieve is to give ammunition to those who would ban every aspect of our sport.

 

Beyond stupid in my opinion.

[al4x]

I think its the ignorance and perceived class snobbery that generally annoys me most. Yes you get your fair share of Ruperts etc on the larger days but our side of it is a good crack. Then you have the animal aid type heading and its not a true representation of the sport at all and that is fairly annoying from a supposed shooting person

[Wildfowler12]

Then you have the animal aid type heading and its not a true representation of the sport at all and that is fairly annoying from a supposed shooting person

 

With regards to giving 'ammunition' to the antis, Your earlier post isn't much better...

 

personally I find wildfowling far harder to defend.............

 

I agree that perhaps the title/content of this post could have been better thought out, but I don't think the OP's intention was to corrupt/damage the reputation of driven shooting?

 

For me, there are a few things in the shooting world that do not appeal, driven game and stalking amongst others. But I certainly wouldn't criticise them on an open forum, or indeed the people who choose to partake in the sports. As a shooting community, we should be looking out for all aspects, rather than just those that we enjoy doing.

 

Al4x, Your earlier post about wildfowling was just as damaging as the original IMO...

Edited October 18, 2012 by Wildfowler12

[wymberley]

With regard to the type of shoot that Harnser is referring to; where we were 100 years ago, here we are today. The only basic difference is the direction in which any money paid out moves.

[al4x]

The two main antis on this thread are fairly avid wildfowlers and it was a little wake up call that while they are criticizing other peoples sport they need to look closer to home and how shooting wild birds, some of whom have traveled a very long way to get here is actually harder to defend than releasing birds for sport.

[Scully]

With regard to the type of shoot that Harnser is referring to; where we were 100 years ago, here we are today. The only basic difference is the direction in which any money paid out moves.

Could that not apply to most types of shooting,including wildfowling?In 1912 none of us were paying to shoot game,or wildfowl.The prices may vary between the two,but one way or another we're paying for both nowadays aren't we?

I'm not about to support one aspect of shooting to the detriment of another;I'd like to think we were all in this together,singing from the same song sheet,but obviously this isn't the case.For those who think the banning of one particular aspect of shooting will guarantee the survival of another....they're either idiots, deluded or extrememly naive....or all three.

We have learned absolutely nothing from the past,and deserve all we get,and as a result,will eventually get it I'm sorry to say.

[Harnser]

No body on this forum is more passionate about shooting than me . To be called a troll is offensive and the person concerned obviously do not know me or has read any of my previous threads over the years

 

Let me just say that the reason for this thread was to try to educate members as what is going on in the anti world and where the threat to shooting is coming from . I am convinced that the main threat to shooting is coming from the antis who see the mass rearing of game birds and the shooting of them for money as being obscene . Not only are the antis targetting the big shoots they are also going after the game rearing farms as seen in other threads on this forum . The antis are getting stronger and stronger with some very high profile members of society backing them . Believe me they do have quite a conciderable bit of clout .

 

I am glad that this thread has made members have thier say and to contribute to the discussion . Its no good putting our heads in sand and hoping that the antis will go away ,they wont . If we cannot as shooters talk about our fears for the future of our sport then we may as well roll over and die .

 

Harnser .

Edited October 18, 2012 by Harnser

[castletyne]

At the end of the day the antis will go after one form of shooting or another

 

Were probably lucky its the big shoots as they also have high profile supporters with plenty of say

[Harnser]

Maybe 'silly old man who's marbles are going' might be a better term. This thread should be gone and anyone who shares such stupid ideas might like to share them on the LACS site instead where they will be more appreciated.

 

My dear friend ,perhaps you could start another thread listing the advantages of the mass rearing of game birds and shooting them for money .

 

Harnser .

[al4x]

My dear friend ,perhaps you could start another thread listing the advantages of the mass rearing of game birds and shooting them for money .

 

Harnser .

 

would that be in terms of the conservation of large estates and the benefits of decent vermin control? or the amount of money it puts back into the rural economy through employment?

[CharlieT]

My dear friend ,perhaps you could start another thread listing the advantages of the mass rearing of game birds and shooting them for money .

 

Harnser .

 

How about this for a start...................

 

 

❖ 480,000 people shoot live quarry

❖ Shooting supports the equivalent of 70,000 full time jobs

❖ Shooters spend £2 billion each year on goods and services

❖ Shooting is worth £1.6 billion to the UK economy

❖ Shooting is involved in the management of two-thirds of the

rural land area

❖ Two million hectares are actively managed for conservation

as a result of shooting

❖ Shooter providers spend £250 million a year on conservation

❖ Shooters spend 2.7 million work days on conservation – the

equivalent of 12,000 full-time jobs

[scutt]

well get your gun get your shoot',line up try and shoot flying birds and the number of birds you can try to kill depends on the size of your wallet thats the way of most things in our world this can bring out the little green monster in any of us.I have only had hearsay about disposal of shot birds but in some early season partridge shoots the weather can be hot enough to spoil the meat before it gets to the game larder. In my youth all meat from the butchers/shops came from the SLAUGHTER HOUSE an exceptable name at the time now we call it an ABATTOIR .this shows in some degree how joe public has become sensitive to the reality of how we produce meat yet violance is accepted in the home via TV video games etc.MARKETING is the buzz word our shooting orginizations are failing to get the reality accross to the public and seam to mainly target the hunting comunity and tell us how well they are spending our money. i.m.o we should get rid of some of CHIEFS and employ a better marketing strategy to get the public on board.**** or bust get a TV add on show viewers hunting shooting fieldsports not just big shoots but pest control etc all the positive aspects that we as hunters know about and should be letting the public see our side of things .

Edited October 18, 2012 by scutt